The word IF is a conditional participle and means that there is no certainty of it's fulfilment.
Try again!
Thayer's say's...
...which makes reference to time and to experience, introducing something future, but not determining, before the event, whether it is certainly to take place
http://www.bluelette...ngs=G1437&t=KJV
Who do you say the synagogue of Satan is???
the only indefinite thing about that Greek word for "if" is... just who's going to bow to the coming false messiah in place of Jesus Christ. No one knows yet just who all will be deceived to bow in false worship to the coming Antichrist, but it's getting easier to distinguish those who might to do that...
Veteran, Your words: “Well, now it's my turn to correct you. Daniel 7:25 gives us a specifc time of 3.5 years that the false one coming will wear out the saints and be given into his hand for that amount of time. That's the same time period which Revelation is pointing to with the 42 months or 1260 days. The direct parallel to Dan.7:25 is in Rev.12:14 and Rev.13:5-7.
That’s a valid theory. I see things a little differently. Are “saints’ in this passage representative of the church or Israel?
Keep reading there after Dan.7:25 and you ought to be able to tell...
Dan 7:25-27
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27
And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, Whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.
(KJV)
Rev. 12:14 is definitely Israel and she is being protected and cared for, not persecuted in this verse. Imo, these are the 144,000 plus those of Zech. 12:10. In this context, the church is those of Rev. 12:17 - “…rest of her offspring, those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”
Anytime you read our Lord Jesus speak about those who have His Testimony in Revelation, that means His Church. And that always includes Gentiles believers too, especially after what was given back in the Rev.12:10-14 verses, which is about the time of great tribulation.
See, if you believe Christ comes to gather ANY of His Church PRIOR to the great tribulation time, then that means to believe man's Pre-trib Rapture Theory. Darby's Dispensationalist ideas created the false division of Christ's Church of Gentile vs. Israelite believers. That separation does not exist anywhere in the New Testament, but only through the Dispensationalism movement that began in the 1800's to try and drum up support for the false Pre-trib Rapture theory.
The bible doesn’t tell us how long the “time of Jacob’s Trouble” will last but I would say that Dan. 7:25 falls in line with that prophecy. Considering that Rev.11:2 references the “time of the Gentiles” for that same period, I believe it is emphasizing Israel & Jerusalem in particular at this point and not the church in general.
Problem: those Gentiles of Rev.11:2 do NOT represent Christ's Church, which is why that verse says this about those Gentiles: "the holy city they shall
tread under foot forty and two months". That's a negative expression for desecration, not one involving true worship of God in Jerusalem. That 42 months given with that event is a pointer to the 42 months of the dragon's rule per Rev.13:4-5. They symbolize his servants in Jerusalem that will tread it under their feet for that period. That's to occur within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period per that Rev.11 chapter, meaning during the great tribulation timing. And remember, Christ said the time of His coming and our gathering is to be AFTER the great tribulation period (per Matt.24:29-31).
Your question: “I wonder who first created the idea that Christ's Church had to be removed off this earth so as to not suffer God's wrath upon the wicked? Do you know?”
You’re probably thinking of Darby and all that, however, I believe it is God’s stated plan in scripture.
He certainly was a major contributor, but I don't think he started the idea. And I beg to differ about any idea that it's an idea written in God's Word.
Your question: “Where in the world did you that kind of idea that a remnant left on earth is going to re-populate it? That's nowhere written in God's Word.”
Yes, it is. Millennial life is portrayed in several areas in scripture including Ez. 40-48 that you keep bringing up. This is the earthly millennial temple, imo and the “priests“ are the 144,000. If all are believers, why animal sacrifices? (That has always puzzled me!). All the millennial references to the “nations” verifies that. There are a lot of verses that speak of millennial life in the OT. Where do you think the rebellion comes from in Rev. 20:7-9? Why would Christ need to rule us with a “rod of iron”? One of the reasons the Jews rejected Christ was because if He was who He claimed to be, than they expected the millennial kingdom at that time. Google, “life in the millennium”, I’m sure you’ll find out a lot about it. Whether you believe it or not is of course up to you.
Those sacrifices are 'symbolic', not literal. Christ ended all need for animal sacrifices by His Blood shed upon the cross. Just because that idea is written there does not mean we should then revolve all those Ezekiel 40-48 events around it, especially since God's River of the waters of life and the tree of life are shown there in Ezek.47. Ponder a while on it, and ask our Heavenly Father why those sacrifices are mentioned there like that. Consider what it would have meant if He had NOT meant it as symbolic? Our Lord Jesus' Sacrifice upon the cross would mean nothing... to those priests there if that were so. Yet there they are, ruling with Christ, and they only are allowed approach Him in that time.
IMHO, the sacrifices there are written like that so as to not flat out reveal to Israel in that time about Christ's Perfect Sacrifice that was still to come when God gave Ezekiel to write that down. Per Apostle Paul, those sacrifices now represent our love and worship of The Father and His Son.
As for the "rod of iron" which our Lord Jesus and His elect will rule with, we were already told that in the Psalms. It's for the 'nations'. Study the last section of Zech.14. Notice that unbelieving nations will STILL exist in Christ's Millennium reign, and will still refuse to come up to Jerusalem to worship Him and keep the feast of tabernacles. In other words, there's still... going to be rebellion going on among unbelieving nations during Christ's future reign on earth with that "rod of iron". It's for the rebellious, not for His Church. Even Rev.20 reveals this, as the nations are not destroyed for Christ's "thousand years" reign of our near future. But they ALL... will go through the 'change' at the twinkling of an eye to the "spiritual body" which Paul taught in 1 Cor.15, pulling from Isaiah 25.
Your words: then you're both wrong, because the 'goats' won't be destroyed until the "lake of fire" event, which occurs at what point per Rev.20? At the END of Christ's future "thousand years" reign.
This is another valid viewpoint, however, I believe their judgment occurs as stated. The lake of fire has always been around. Nothing implies that it will be “created” at the end of the millennium. To change the topic a little bit. While researching this I read Rev. 20:10 which separates, the beast (a/c), the false prophet and satan into three different beings.
Sorry, the "lake of fire" event per Rev.20:14-15 is NOT the actual burning garbage dump outside the walls of Jerusalem of OT history. Our Lord Jesus only used that 'historical' burning garbage pit of Hinnom as a METAPHOR for the future "lake of fire" event which has been ordained 'of old' for Satan and his angels (Isaiah 30:33)
Concerning the Rev.20:10 verse, stop and do some more thinking, and look at Rev.19:20 again. If you'll notice, Satan the devil is left out of Rev.19:20. The meaing? The "beast" and "false prophet" are ALREADY destroyed PRIOR to the devil going into that "lake of fire" at Rev.20:10. Don't stop there though, because what does that Rev.19:20 casting mean, since God's great white throne judgment of those who perish is not until later after Christ's "thousand years" reign per Rev.20:11-15? In other words, just who all... has God already judged and sentenced to perish in that "lake of fire" at that Rev.19:20 specific point in time? Understanding this is important, because it's another marker God put in His Word to understand who the final Antichrist on earth will be.
