Should Christians Always Be Healed?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Paul said he will boast in his infirmities.
we know he had serious eye issues and other health issues..
Correct. But now, my question is this: If someone is in such sin that they are worthy of being disciplined by the Lord, is it still His will in the moment that they be healed, or has it now become His will that they come under judgment unless and until they repent.
Look again at the passage. Paul associated the fact that many were sick with the discipline of God, implying that they were stricken by Him because he wanted them to repent, lest they be condemned with the world:
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:27-32)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
this is the part I hate about health and wealth.
It states if you do not get healed you do not have enough faith.
That is dangerous.. and can lead a person to walk away from Christ (I know I have witnessed it numerous times)
Return to this thread if you can. There are positives to Faith teaching that have not been brought out yet.
Yes, the reason I am requesting it is because each passage needs to be examined in its own right, not simply referenced with an assumed interpretation taken for granted. There have been numerous scripture references already made that I could take apart to show mean something other than what was being implied, but the thread has taken off too quickly to do so. Actually citing the passages in question makes this easier.
I may go back later and deal with such references in individual posts. Depends on where the discussion goes.
On this . . .
Jesus only did what He saw the Father do, only said what the Father said. That's Scripture, but I forget the reference. So if Jesus didn't heal many people there, it was because the Holy Spirit was not giving the healings through Him, do we agree there?
The why of it, Why the Holy Spirit did not do many works of power through Jesus at that time, I can only speculate. Perhaps as a response to their lack of faith, or perhaps for another reason, I don't see Scripture to define it for us. But perhaps Jesus could have healed if the Spirit had been willing, and perhaps the Spirit was unwilling because the people had the wrong idea about Jesus, or would have gotten the wrong idea.
Didn't Jesus heal those not present? Raise the dead who had no faith? They were dead?
I believe Jesus both can and does act for us regardless of our state of faith, and is not bound by our weakness.
Much love!
I don't think you are quoting that right. You are representing a progression of action that doesn't appear in the text. Why? There is actually an equivalency being expressed that you are removing. Again, why?
Much love!
No, Mark. Scripture teaches that it is impossible to please God without faith, and that was the principe at work here. Look at how pleased He was with the faith of the Roman centurion, or the Samaritan woman who told Him, "Yes, but even the dogs eat the crumbs from the Master's table." This is why He scolded Isreal, saying, "I have not seen such faith in Israel," and why He got on the disciples sometimes, telling them, "Oh ye of little faith."
If we do not believe God for miracles, He will not do them for us. We must believe that He IS, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. This is why He stressed to them, "If two are more agree as touching anything in My name, it shall be done for them of My Father," and spoke of moving mountains and cursing fig trees, and told Peter to get out and walk on water to Him. He also questioned Peter when he began to sink, and asked, "Why did you doubt?"
Great faith towards God pleases Him. By contrast, a lack of faith in Him grieves Him. It is why James said we must ask in faith and not doubt, and that he who doubts is a "man with two psyches" (I'm referencing the Greek). He doesn't want us being faith schizophrenics who don't know how to believe God for things and receive them in prayer. He wants us to be strong faith; to have faith as a "grain of mustard seed," and Christ Himself was the grain of mustard seed that was sown in the earth as the smallest of seeds but became the largest of trees through His body, the church. It means He wants us to have the same faith towards God that He Himself has.
Everything hinges on faith, Mark. Our faith. No man is saved without it.
That's right. Even though everyone who came to Jesus of Nazareth was healed, later on not everyone was healed. Some did not even come to Him, or have faith for healing, but He healed them all. And many of His miracles are not even recorded.
It would be nice to think that all Christians should always be healed physically, but that is not how it works. Even Paul was not be healed of his "thorn in the flesh" (a physical disability).
I've often thought that even though we believe totally in our Salvation we find it much more difficult to have that same degree of faith for healing. And I wonder why.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I think there must be a differentiation of knowing God can and does heal people. and knowing, it may not be his will to heal someone. One can have faith God will do his will. whether his will matches ours or not..
Yes, but Scripture does not teach that God cannot work on our behalf without our specific faith in that particular thing coming to pass. Again, the faithless dead were raised, for instance.
Romans 8:26-27 KJV
26) Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27) And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Are we trusting God for things we don't know?
Our faith is not God's on/off switch. When I took a 4X fatal overdose, and lived, it wasn't mine, or anyone else's faith that negated the effect of those pills, only God's intent that I would live.
Saved . . . healed from sickness . . . healed from infirmity . . . protected against sickness . . . against infirmity . . . You said saved, I thought we were talking about being healed.
Much love!
My question is why we cannot trust God that He allows our infirmities for His Own reasons, and that even when infirm, we are still being cared for faithfully by Jesus?
As the outer man wastes away, the inner man is being restored. Are we going to insist the outer man shouldn't be wasting away?
Much love!
As the outer man wastes away, the inner man is being restored. Are we going to insist the outer man shouldn't be wasting away?
Much love!
I think of the man at the Beatiful Gate.
Acts 3:1-11 KJV
1) Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2) And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3) Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4) And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5) And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6) Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7) And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
9) And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
10) And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
11) And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
This man . . . his entire life he was carried to this gate to the temple. How many times was Jesus in Jerusalem? Visiting the temple? Walked right past this man? Everyone knew him. Why had he not been healed?
Was it his faith? Was he expecting to be healed? What might have been in this man's mind when Peter and John stopped to look at him? That part we don't have to guess, he thought they were going to give him money. Faith to receive money.
Peter grabbed his hand and pulled him to his feet. Surprise!!
Much love!
When is it amiss to ask for healing?
"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Heb 9:27
When it is our appointed time or the appointed time of a loved one, should we join Hezekiah in praying for more time?
It is all God's time, is it not, along with everything else for us to use as good stewards along with everything else?
"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;" Ecc 3:1-3
When is it God's time? When is it according to His will?
Amen! I have also witnessed a sister in Christ suffering in terrible pain for the last few weeks of life, who blessed every one of her many visitors until her time was finished. Her work was done!
2 Corinthians 4:7 KJV
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
I think the implication in this verse is that our clay vessels are weak.
Much love!
Agreed, only He is not One to violate the will of human beings, which is why He chose someone like Lazarus, who was His servant. When it comes to matters where He is doing something beyond the planning of man, He chooses His servants for all sorts of things, including men like John and Daniel to receive very powerful visions of the Lord. But when it comes to healings or miracles on our behalf, He looks for faith within us. If it is not there, we have not yet come to the place where He can honor our prayers, because we are double-minded, and not strong in our relationship with and trust in Him. James also used the example of Elijah, who prayed and it didn't rain for three years, saying, "The prayers of a righteous man come to realization" (translation of the Greek).
No. We trust God for what we do know. This is why Paul said, "I will remain with you" (Philippians 1:25). He knew that it was not God's will for him to go anywhere yet because his ministry wasn't finished. When it WAS time for his ministry to be finished, you see him acknowledging it, and trying to explain it to everyone else who was unwilling to accept it (Acts 21:10-13).
Likely correct, but this is not an issue of you requesting healing, it was preventing you from destroying yourself, and it is likely that he foresaw the faith you would walk in as a believer and spared you by His will alone. Different matter than actively desiring something from Him in prayer.
We're talking about both.
We can, but this may be an assumption, based on our own lack of knowledge. This particular statement would take unpacking several passages of scripture to treat, but the belief that our infirmities (i.e. taken here to mean "sicknesses") are being allowed to somehow teach us something is erroneous. He can allow sickness from Satan, such as happened with Job, but it is very rare that He will make someone a Christ figure by suffering through sickness/ disease as a result of attacks from Satan. What IS common is that He will allow persecution and affliction to come upon us from the enemy, and here is where your question comes more into effect.
His time had come. One thing that happens, and you will occasionally hear this from faith people - I know it has happened with me - is that I will begin to believe God for something precisely at a time when He had foreordained for it to happen for me. It's like you hear God speaking, and you agree with it by believing Him for it, and then it comes to pass. Maybe the timing for when this man was destined to be healed had not yet come, and when it did come he sensed it in his spirit, believed God, and was led to ask alms of the apostles, at which time Peter sensed his faith by the Spirit and said, "Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." You have to remember that Peter sensed concerning Simon the magician that a curse was upon him, saying "I perceive that you are subject the poison of bitterness and the bond of iniquity." The Spirit of God leads us to others, and we sense in them faith or sinfulness. Thus the Spirit leads us to act or speak to them accordingly.
Yes, and this goes back to knowing His will, and what I was saying in my previous post to Mark. There are appointed times for healings, outpourings, visitations, etc. As the scriptures says, "They knew not the time of their visitation" (Luke 19:44), and in another place, "that they may glorify God in a time of visitation" (1 Peter 2:12).
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