Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Paul Christensen]

How does the church "keep Jesus out"? If Jesus is outside, it's not the body of Christ, right?

Much love!

If the Holy Spirit dwells in the spirit of genuinely converted believers, then it is as Jesus is living right inside them. So, if believers come to a church service filled with the Spirit, then they bring Jesus with them. So, to get Jesus into the church, then more professing Christians need to get truly converted and filled with the Spirit!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Gee . . . I was thinking the same thing about some things you had written . . .

My point is, instead of thinking of this sin as greater, and that sin as lesser, what if we were to consider that the flesh has it's works, and they are all evil, and the Spirit lives joined to our spirit, and walking in that is righteousness?

Much love!

If all sin is cancelled through redemption in Christ, which cancelled sin is greater or lesser?

 

[marks]

If all sin is cancelled through redemption in Christ, which cancelled sin is greater or lesser?

What do you mean by cancelled?

Much love!

 

[marks]

What you are saying here is to do with developing sanctification,

To my way of thinking, the 'renewing of the mind'.

Much love!

 

[Paul Christensen]

What do you mean by cancelled?

Much love!

When Jesus suffered on the Cross for three hours before He died, He paid the full debt of sin for all those who have faith in Him. This means that when we turned to Christ as our Saviour, our sin, past, present, and future is totally cancelled, and totally covered by the free gift of righteousness in Christ. This is what redemption is all about. This means that we no longer have to be sin-conscious, but rather Christ-conscious.

Of course we are passionate about doing good works because we have been given a new heart to do so. We do our best to keep the moral Law, and when we fail, we are not brought under any curse as was the case under the Old Covenant. We apply 1 John 1:9, and then get on with serving Him with love, joy and peace.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Growth is moving from non-spiritual to spiritual thinking, which moves us from unrighteous to righteous living,

I see chastening as jump-starting us when we've stalled.

Much love!

If a person is genuinely converted to Christ, then he receives the righteousness of Christ. If that is so, how is that person unrighteous in his living, when he is actually righteous in Christ? Isn't that contradictory? Either a person is righteous in Christ or unrighteous. He can't be both at the same time. I don't use the term "spiritual thinking". Too much like New Age spiritualism for me. I'd rather use "Biblical thinking" which is more accurate. It takes the emphasis away from self and on to what God's Word says about us and what we should be in Christ.

 

[marks]

If a person is genuinely converted to Christ, then he receives the righteousness of Christ. If that is so, how is that person unrighteous in his living, when he is actually righteous in Christ? Isn't that contradictory? Either a person is righteous in Christ or unrighteous. He can't be both at the same time. I don't use the term "spiritual thinking". Too much like New Age spiritualism for me.

After rebirth, we need our minds renewed. We put off the old man, and put on the new man. Stop thinking and acting the unregenerate way, and think and act the regenerate way.

Galatians 5:16-17 KJV
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Just to clarify: Do you actually believe that after being regenerated by God's grace through faith in Christ, are you seeking to maintain your redemption through keeping some form of moral law?

No, Lol. I'm talking about the saints coming under judgment when God is cleaning up His church. Not all sins require judgment, and in many ways we judge ourselves anyway. I'm just talking about perfecting holiness in the fear of God, and submitting to His discipline whenever required to.

As the scripture says, "Harden not your hearts as in the day of provocation."

 

[marks]

and submitting to His discipline whenever required to.

It's not required that you submit.



That's the whole point of His chastening, He brings you to the place He wants you to be through greater afflictions. It's not like you are choosing whether or not to allow Him to do that. If you are His son, and that's what you need, that's what He does, and it works.

You seem to have an idea of a church at war with their God, but I don't think it's that way. God and we are at war with our flesh. Our flesh is what resists God, and identification with our flesh is what gets us into trouble.

The flesh is angry unrighteously, not the spirit. Not the inner man.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

That's the whole point of His chastening, He brings you to the place He wants you to be through greater afflictions. It's not like you are choosing whether or not to allow Him to do that. If you are His son, and that's what you need, that's what He does, and it works.

I meant submitting to His correction, Lol.

You seem to have an idea of a church at war with their God, but I don't think it's that we.

Oh come on. You're getting off on a tangent now. The teaching I espouse is of a Father correcting His children, not a church "at war with their God."

I swear, some of your posts, Lol.

 

[marks]

I meant submitting to His correction, Lol.

That's what I mean. Your "submission" is not required. He will submit you.

Oh come on. You're getting off on a tangent now. The teaching I espouse is of a Father correcting His children, not a church "at war with their God."

I swear, some of your posts, Lol.

No need to swear! Here's what I'm saying.

The spirit of the reborn man delights to serve God. The part of you that resists God is your flesh. You speak of God stepping in the judge the church. I'm talking about God stepping in to help you in your fight against your flesh.

Here's how I see it.

In the flesh, we serve sin, but in the spirit, we serve God. That is, the flesh is a servant of sin, and the spirit is a servant of God. The flesh is corrupted with deceiptful lusts. The spirit lusts the things of God. The flesh lusts for sin.

In our resisting of sin, remember that God will chasten us, but only if we are really His children. And if we are, He most certainly will. Train as you train a child. In big ways, in little ways, in all sorts of ways.

And what's happened is that those deceiptful lusts have captured our attention, either in desiring wrong things, or thinking you can't stop something, or just failing to realize that the flesh has now occupied our minds.

Something starts small, but without really realizing, it's become a problem. Whatever it is. God will shake us loose from it. If with a Scripture, maybe we think nothing of it. Maybe He leads us to pray over it, or someone else to pray. Maybe He gives us a little consequence to catch our eye, maybe He gives us a big consequence to flatten us for a bit while He speaks some sense into us.

Maybe He initiates a long and arduous process involving all sorts of things, like He's done with me.

And afterward, the peaceable fruit of righteousness. The trying of your faith proves it's genuineness. When you are tested, it pushes you back into faith.

Much love!

 

[TEXBOW]

"The thorn of the flesh" might have been the persecution and opposition he experienced.
It bothers me when people get prayed over for healing and someone walks by and start telling people God does not heal all the time and use Paul as an example .....throwing doubt around about healing.

You can look for yourself but Paul mentions Trophimus being left sick. Do you think Paul didn't pray for him to be healed? God heals whom he desires. He has a plan for each of us. If God desired to heal all followers none would ever die of cancer or car accidents and I could list many other reasons. To make a statement that God heals all who seek it is factually not true.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You can look for yourself but Paul mentions Trophimus being left sick. Do you think Paul didn't pray for him to be healed? God heals whom he desires. He has a plan for each of us. If God desired to heal all followers none would ever die of cancer or car accidents and I could list many other reasons. To make a statement that God heals all who seek it is factually not true.

True. We live in a fallen world, where there is sickness and death. Although the guilt and punishment of sin has been removed from us, the presence of sin remains and will be part of us until we get to glory. Because sickness originated from the blight of sin and death that came upon the world when Adam and Eve sinned, there are no guarantees for perfect health for everyone, and sickness is a part of our mortal existence, and there are no guarantees of divine healing outside of God's sovereignty and His grace.

I think that many books on divine healing written for Christian believers gives sick people a false hope that all they have to do is to push the right buttons and, hey presto! They will be healed. Almost every author maintains that the formula in his or her book will guarantee healing. But when readers try to put the formula into practice they are disappointed, and wonder what they are doing wrong that healing does not come. The problem is that the formula is wrong because there ain't no formula!

The Scripture is fairly clear that God saves whom He decides to save, and heals whom He decides to heal, and He doesn't need anyone's permission to do or not to do it. The buck stops with Him, and if He decides for reasons best known to Him, then people can apply all the formulae but none of them will work.

 

[Hidden In Him]

That's what I mean. Your "submission" is not required. He will submit you.

"Submit you"? You mean, like this? Lol.

In the UFC, referees stop people before they kill others. But nobody is stopping the Lord if He wants to completely take someone out, and that can be the case sometimes.

In our resisting of sin, remember that God will chasten us, but only if we are really His children.

No. If you are effecting His children negatively He can execute judgment on you even if you are not His child.

You'll have to forgive me if I am losing you here, because I have been deeply involved in other discussions and don't fully remember what we were driving at. I'm simply responding to what I'm reading at surface value.

 

[Triumph1300]

The Scripture is fairly clear that God saves whom He decides to save

Last time I checked it's God's desire that all come to repentance and be saved.
But of course many reject the fact that there is a God. That's why they miss the boat.

 

[Triumph1300]

To make a statement that God heals all who seek it is factually not true.

That's not what I said.
Do not put words in my mouth.

 

[Triumph1300]

You can look for yourself but Paul mentions Trophimus being left sick. Do you think Paul didn't pray for him to be healed?

Yes I know that.
I know also that some people are not healed right away.
Take it anyway you like.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Last time I checked it's God's desire that all come to repentance and be saved.
But of course many reject the fact that there is a God. That's why they miss the boat.

That's right. God is not going to save those who reject Christ, or resort to keeping the Law as the means of merit from God for salvation.

 

[Triumph1300]

The Scripture is fairly clear that God saves whom He decides to save, and heals whom He decides to heal,

Can you confirm this with scripture?

 

[post]

The spirit of the reborn man delights to serve God. The part of you that resists God is your flesh. You speak of God stepping in the judge the church. I'm talking about God stepping in to help you in your fight against your flesh.

Let us remember also that our brains are made of flesh, but our minds are not!