Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[marks]

Yes, because I don't believe I am walking in anything so severe that it would incur judgment. I suppose that could change if I started getting really stupid, but my main problem is a fierce temper. If I continued to walk in it and not forgive certain situations, this would be a form of disobedience before Him that He might not tolerate. But my saving grace is that I am generally very forgiving, even if it can be hard for me sometimes with those I am especially close to, or if they are especially insulting in some way.

Why are you asking?

When you say, "incur judgment", do you mean something punitive?

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

you said “ I think it is the blessings of hearing His voice (i.e. receiving teaching and revelation from Him concerning His word and issues in your life) and being in His Presence (thru worship, prayer, etc) that brings both joy and boldness (Galatians 5:22, Ephesians 6:18-19).”

Your reference to being in His presence makes me consider the verse of the day which came up this morning in the Psalms.

I will bless the LORD who has counseled me; indeed, my mind instructs me in the night.

my mind instructs me in the night makes me think of the instruction to “let this mind be in you that was in Jesus Christ” Philippians 2:5, Philippians 3:15, Romans 7:25, Romans 12:21. teach us which way to go that we do not stumble in the night, not knowing what we stumble over??
​

I have set the Lord continually before me; Because He is at my right hand, (Hebrews 8:1) I will not be shaken.

Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices; my flesh also will dwell securely(1 Corinthians 15:44, 1 Corinthians 15:53, 1 Corinthians 15:54). For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor allow Your Holy one to undergo decay. Acts 13:34-37.

you will make known to me the path of life(Acts 2:28, John 14:6); In your presence is fullness of joy (John 15:11, 1 John 1:14, 1 Peter 1:7, 2 John 1:12); in your right hand there are pleasures forever (enduring, perpetual….) In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Colossians 2:11

I get that is a lot, but it is hopeful to me and a good reminder today of who He is. Thank you.

These are all excellent verses, and well applied.

You see, even for the apostle Paul boldness and courage were not always a given. He needed prayer, too, and it teaches us the lesson that the empowerment of the Spirit of God welling up within us is something everyone needs, all the more so if the gravity of our situation is more serious and we face greater trials. But God sees who is facing the greater trials, and they will be rewarded for doing so accordingly, when all is said and done. As Paul said in one place, "each man must carry his own burden," and I take that to mean that I will not be judged in comparison with others whose burdens were much less, or much lighter. I will be judged based upon the burden I alone had to bear, and what I did with the hand I was dealt.

 

[Hidden In Him]

When you say, "incur judgment", do you mean something punitive?

Much love!

Yes.

 

[marks]

Yes, because I don't believe I am walking in anything so severe that it would incur judgment.

I see severity of sin differently, I think. I look at sin in terms of how it affects my fruitfulness. A mind filled with vile imaginations is evil to me, but a harsh word spoken to my wife is worse, to me.

Both come from the unrenewed mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes.

I think God's actions are purely corrective. That Jesus took all punishment, and now God lovingly renews me. What would be the purpose for God to punish you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If I continued to walk in it and not forgive certain situations, this would be a form of disobedience before Him that He might not tolerate.

Is there any sin or weakness or lack of faith that God is not in the process of removing from our lives?

I suggest that God is constantly working in us to renew us from our sinful ways, primarily rooted in our exalted self-image.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

I see severity of sin differently, I think. I look at sin in terms of how it affects my fruitfulness. A mind filled with vile imaginations is evil to me, but a harsh word spoken to my wife is worse, to me.

I agree with the last part. The worst sins are those that effect others negatively.

I think God's actions are purely corrective. That Jesus took all punishment, and now God lovingly renews me. What would be the purpose for God to punish you?

To be corrective.

 

[marks]

So the above is a good way of looking at it, IMO. The trouble is when people are walking in sin that God cannot tolerate. Then the questions start entering in.

Sin that God cannot tolerate, I would think that means any sin, no? Isn't all sin condemned?

And don't we commit sins that seem to carry no negative consequence? No punishment or correction? Life goes on?

I suggest that the question of sin and punishment is over, and what we are dealing with is better described in the works of the flesh, contrasted to the fruit of the Spirit. Either we are walking in the Spirit, bearing the fruit grown in us by the Holy Spirit, or we allow the flesh to continue its works.

I suggest that God has a program for each one of us, of how He will renew us during the course of our lives, and by how much. He already knows how it's all going to work out.

I think God's disciplining of us (training to instill discipline) comes at all levels, from teaching us to not click on that porn, to valuing all people as our brothers and sisters, intent on protecting and sparing them from shame. Sometimes I think its about just editting that word out of our vocabulary, and sometimes it's about breaking that angry heart.

Jesus is unto us sanctification. I can trust Him for ALL the ups and downs in my life, to me it's all the same thing. I'm short on money, I trust Him for my sustinence. I'm short on strenth, I trust Him to be able to do what I need to do. I'm short on health, I trust Him for tomorrow.

Having enough money, I'll still need to trust Him, because it takes wings, and flies away. Having strength, having health, I still have to trust Him, these too can disappear in a moment.

I think that God is managing all of these things in His program to train me away from fleshy ways, to the spiritual way. So then God's intent to heal me isn't so much about whether I have the feeling of confidence, though it may be, but more to the point, whatever in God's wisdom is needed in my life, that's what He'll be doing.

Maybe I'll feel horrible over something I've done, and maybe some catastrophe happens, and maybe one has nothing to do with the other. Maybe God isn't doing anything about what I'm focused on, maybe He's working at a deeper level.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sin that God cannot tolerate, I would think that means any sin, no?

No, Mark. Hebrews says sin easily besets us all, and John qualified this by saying that we have an Advocate with the Father. But not every Christian is sleeping with his father's wife (1 Corinthians 5:1-5), and not every Christian is teaching people to fornicate in the name of Jesus Christ (Revelation 2:20-23).

Maybe I'll feel horrible over something I've done, and maybe some catastrophe happens, and maybe one has nothing to do with the other. Maybe God isn't doing anything about what I'm focused on, maybe He's working at a deeper level.

This takes the position that "a deeper level" is to not discipline His children as He once did. I don't think this is what is happening. As I have stated in other posts, to whom much is given much will be expected. The only reason the church is not coming under tremendous judgment and correction right now is because the Lord is still largely outside of the church trying to get back in (Revelation 3:20). When He is finally allowed back in for real, what you will see happening are the same sorts of things as happened during New Testament times. He is going to clean house again.

 

[marks]

This takes the position that "a deeper level" is to not discipline His children as He once did. I don't think this is what is happening.

That's backwards.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We have opinions of ourselves, formed from our perceptions of ourselves, and scrambled by our self-interest. God does not necessarily share our views.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The only reason the church is not coming under tremendous judgment and correction right now is because the Lord is still largely outside of the church trying to get back in (Revelation 3:20).

I find the church is a group of individuals, within whom the Lord works. If you feel He is "outside", then "let Him back in". It's a personal appeal, not congregational.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, Mark. Hebrews says sin easily besets us all, and John qualified this by saying that we have an Advocate with the Father. But not every Christian is sleeping with his father's wife (1 Corinthians 5:1-5), and not every Christian is teaching people to fornicate in the name of Jesus Christ (Revelation 2:20-23).

So what happens if we stop parsing sins, and simply go with what is and is not of fleshy origin, and what is and is not of Spirit origin?

I believe God is working in each of us to diminish the effect of flesh, while increasing the effect of Spirit in our lives.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When He is finally allowed back in for real, what you will see happening are the same sorts of things as happened during New Testament times. He is going to clean house again.

How does the church "keep Jesus out"? If Jesus is outside, it's not the body of Christ, right?

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

I find the church is a group of individuals, within whom the Lord works. If you feel He is "outside", then "let Him back in". It's a personal appeal, not congregational.

Correct. Jesus says "if any man..." which translates into "If any individual..."
Salvation is always on an individual basis. So is each one's relationship to Christ. Obviously the church at Laodicea was a bunch of professing Christians who were not really regenerated. That is why they were "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked". That is not a description of genuine Christians.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Are you able to trust God with your sin?

Much love!

I had a good close look at Romans 3 and 4. I discover a verse that makes things very clear. It says, "We are justified by faith apart from the Law." What this means is that we are justified through faith in Christ alone, and the works of either the ceremonial or moral law are not included. In fact, Paul says that nothing we can do in terms of the works of the Law can contribute to our justification. If works are a factor, then grace is no more grace. We are justified by God's mercy alone through our faith in Christ. Then Paul goes on to say if the Law is irrelevant, and he says, "God forbid!". He says that the Law is right and holy, and it shows what we must be doing right. But the problem is that we can't do it right because of our sinfulness. So, the person who seeks justification by living by the Law is obligated to observe the Law perfectly, without a single fault, otherwise he comes under a curse for Lawbreaking. So, where does the Law fit in? Our sanctification. After we are justified by faith in Christ, we are given a new heart to observe the Law the best we can. We don't do it perfectly, but we want to in our hearts and continually ask the Holy Spirit to help us improve our sanctification. This is where James comes in. He is not preaching justification through works of the Law; he is saying that if we say we are justified by faith, then what we do should show it. In other words, if we say we have a new heart, then we should be showing that we are doing the best we can to observe the Law to live a holy life. Living the holy life doesn't save us, but it shows that we are genuinely converted to Christ.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's where faith comes in.

Romans 5:1-5 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

James 1:1-4 KJV
1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2) My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3) Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

To trust Jesus fully in the midst of great pain is to be grateful for that pain, knowing that God is doing great and wonderful things. That's what trust in Jesus is, to me, the confidence that these things are all being used by God for great good.

Should we spend our lives trying to shake off that which God has sent to renew us?

Much love!

I had never noted the kjv of those Vss. Don’t think I ever saw that passage in that translation! Mine says it more like…when troubles of any kind come your way, consider it an opportunity for great joy because whenever your trust is tested, it grows your endurance and when your endurance is fully grown you will be perfect and in need of nothing. (My translation says faith rather than trust but as usual, my mind automatically understands the word as meaning trusting God - whatever He sends to you and everything He has said, trusting it is for your good and believing it as true.)

Patience makes sense I guess…patient endurance,

 

[Hidden In Him]

How does the church "keep Jesus out"? If Jesus is outside, it's not the body of Christ, right?

The metaphor is of someone who wants greater intimacy ("supping" with someone). If they did not belong to God, He would not have written to them in Revelation, but the Lord depicted Himself here as standing outside the door and knocking to get in, which means the intimacy was not there like He wanted it to be.

I find the church is a group of individuals, within whom the Lord works. If you feel He is "outside", then "let Him back in". It's a personal appeal, not congregational.

Mark, He addressed the seven churches.

That is why they were "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked". That is not a description of genuine Christians.

Enoch, look at the context. He addressed the entire church as being in this condition. If they did not belong to Him, what in the world was He doing writing to them?

14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”

 

[Hidden In Him]

So what happens if we stop parsing sins, and simply go with what is and is not of fleshy origin, and what is and is not of Spirit origin?

You make it sound as if we are in charge here. We are not.

 

[marks]

I had a good close look at Romans 3 and 4. I discover a verse that makes things very clear. It says, "We are justified by faith apart from the Law." What this means is that we are justified through faith in Christ alone, and the works of either the ceremonial or moral law are not included. In fact, Paul says that nothing we can do in terms of the works of the Law can contribute to our justification. If works are a factor, then grace is no more grace. We are justified by God's mercy alone through our faith in Christ. Then Paul goes on to say if the Law is irrelevant, and he says, "God forbid!". He says that the Law is right and holy, and it shows what we must be doing right. But the problem is that we can't do it right because of our sinfulness. So, the person who seeks justification by living by the Law is obligated to observe the Law perfectly, without a single fault, otherwise he comes under a curse for Lawbreaking. So, where does the Law fit in? Our sanctification. After we are justified by faith in Christ, we are given a new heart to observe the Law the best we can. We don't do it perfectly, but we want to in our hearts and continually ask the Holy Spirit to help us improve our sanctification. This is where James comes in. He is not preaching justification through works of the Law; he is saying that if we say we are justified by faith, then what we do should show it. In other words, if we say we have a new heart, then we should be showing that we are doing the best we can to observe the Law to live a holy life. Living the holy life doesn't save us, but it shows that we are genuinely converted to Christ.

Are you referring to the Law of the Covenant made between God and Israel at Mount Horeb?

Much love!