Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Berserk]

Perhaps the poster boy for the Word of Faith movement is the late William Branham, whose healing ministry drew huge crowds in the 1950s and 1960s. I was born with no sight in one eye. So my Pentecostal parents were determined to get me prayed for by Branham. They were poor, but spent more than they could afford to get me to Elgin Illinois for a Branham crusade. They waited with me (age 30 in a long healing line and my condition was written down on a piece of paper. When I finally made it on stage, Branham read the note, prayed, and then waved his hand over my eyes, causing my to blink. Branham then disengenuouly bellowed, "See, this little boy was blind and now he sees!" The huge crowd went wild, but my parents were sick, knowing they had just been victimized by a fraud. Branham had carefully concealed the fact that I blinked because I could see out of one eye. In my experience, such fraud is typical faith healing stagecraft. Even Kathryn Kuhlman, whom I revere, later admitted that she faked healing claims to excite the crowd.

This deception almost destroyed my godly Dad's faith. Prior to our trip to Elgin, he had a strong faith that I would be healed and told everyone, including his barber, how excited he was at the impending miracle. Dad is exhibit A of toxic impact of the blame the victim mentality often promoted by this vile movement.
Another relative's wife got cancer, but her husband refused the recommended chemo, saying, "We're just going to trust Jesus for healing." Well, she died, but the doctor said she would have lived because chemo would have cured the initial early stages of her cancer.

 

[Mayflower]

You must be talking about 1 cor 11:27-34. Yes, taking communion with the wrong heart can make you sick, but it is because of condemnation. It is not Gods doing, cause God does not condemn us (Rom 8:1) but rather it is our own heart the condemns us (John 3:18-22). It is condemnation that makes us sick....... BUT....... Good news even for those, James says if you are sick, call the elders, they will anoint you with oil, the prayer of faith WILL heal you, and if you have sinned (like take communion wrongly) it WILL be forgiven!

I believe the prayer of faith can still heal! But I believe in context, 1 Corinthians 11 actually is judgement.

"9 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.[a] 31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined[c] so that we may not be condemned along with the world."

So the intent of the judgement is good and can still be forgiven. It isn't condemnation, correct?

Verse 31 I am unsure about.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Perhaps the poster boy for the Word of Faith movement is the late William Branham, whose healing ministry drew huge crowds in the 1950s and 1960s. I was born with no sight in one eye. So my Pentecostal parents were determined to get me prayed for by Branham. They were poor, but spent more than they could afford to get me to Elgin Illinois for a Branham crusade. They waited with me (age 30 in a long healing line and my condition was written down on a piece of paper. When I finally made it on stage, Branham read the note, prayed, and then waved his hand over my eyes, causing my to blink. Branham then disengenuouly bellowed, "See, this little boy was blind and now he sees!" The huge crowd went wild, but my parents were sick, knowing they had just been victimized by a fraud. Branham had carefully concealed the fact that I blinked because I could see out of one eye. In my experience, such fraud is typical faith healing stagecraft

Well I fully agree with you that the frauds that have become part of the "charismatic" movement are a terrible tragedy, and thanks for sharing your testimony.

Even Kathryn Kuhlman, whom I revere, later admitted that she faked healing claims to excite the crowd.

I had a fight with a guy over her one time at another forum; a friend. Someone posted a dream about Kuhlman that strongly suggested she became seduced by the enemy later in life, hence all the lavish lifestyle she is reported by close associates to have enjoyed. VERY interesting dream. I ought to go find it. Anyway, this was a guy who was/ is big into deliverance ministry and took strong exception to me criticizing one of his faith idols, but I think the dream was accurate, and I think she is yet another example of how many in the charismatic movement have succumbed to the enemy over the last century. It's a shame, really, but it goes back to warfare. Not everyone counts the cost of going to war, and not everyone is able to handle the temptation of becoming entangled in the things of this world. It's understandable, but we can't allow it to happen to ourselves.

 

[Mayflower]

Alright, thanks for answering. The problem with saying that it is only self-condemnation that brings the sickness is that it is contradicted by the text. The clear implication is that it is God Himself who brings it:

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

I agree with you that the prayer of faith will save the sick and he will be forgiven, but this is contingent upon him judging himself that he not be judged. If a man will not judge himself, he will be judged by God. This is the implication of the passage.

THAT is what verse 31 is talking about. *pipes in someone else's chat. *

 

[Hidden In Him]

THAT is what verse 31 is talking about. *pipes in someone else's chat. *

 

[Bob Estey]

Well, He's great regardless and for a whole lot of reasons, LoL. And generally yes, if you repent of your sins which were the cause of some form of judgment, then the judgment passes. But the passage focuses on two things: The formal declaration of repentance before men, and public forgiveness by the church for the sins committed. This is what God is ultimately after, and it was a driving theme through much of James' letter. They were getting very nasty with each other over doctrinal differences, hence the constant reference to the tongue, and in situations were strife is involved, God requires that we make reconciliation with each other, often in a public manner, that it not be just something the offended party has to take for granted. Repentance was public in such instances back then.

The Lord is just - he's not going to wait for me to pray for you to heal you, if you've repented of your sin.

 

[Lambano]

@Hidden In Him

I was convinced I had 0 healings in my life until reading through your posts about kidney stones.

Years ago, I had a pain in my side. Some days I couldn't walk or get out of bed. I would scream in pain and be in the bath mostly on my side because it was the only relief. I thought I had gallbladder stones.

Multiple trips to ER. Even an ambulance. Multiple doctors in separate cities. Nobody could help and kept just handing me Maalox or saying it was "muscle confusion".

The EMT was the only one who actually cared and stood up for me, especially when they accused me of being on drugs or self-harm, because I had burn marks on my wrist from being short and making eggs. (Leaned my arm on the edge of the pan)

A year or two more of this, during an episode I was home alone in pain and prayed out something to God like I would follow him and I'll hand myself over to Him, but just heal me.

I remember I could stand up after that and quickly later after a Daniel fast,
I figured out it was caused by food allergies. (Nuts and soy)

So after calling out, I was given relief, but there was a process of "figuring it out" via Daniel fast and a box of Kashi to know what to do.

I think I have been free of that now since maybe 2018 or something.

I wanted to circle back on this one because this is a special case of faith healing. First, I didn’t want a good testimony go by without a quiet prayer of thanks and praise. Second, as an engineer, I find it almost amusing that God gave you a temporary hot fix to get you functional again, and then led you to a permanent fix that you could implement yourself. But relating to this thread: This was a covenantal healing, analogous to God healing Hannah’s infertility, and Hannah promising to dedicate her child to the Lord. It might seem transactional, but I think that’s an unfair characterization. God sovereignly accepted Hannah’s prayer, and Hannah kept her promise. And Fluffy, I think you’ve kept your promise too.

 

[DuckieLady]

I wanted to circle back on this one because this is a special case of faith healing. First, I didn’t want a good testimony go by without a quiet prayer of thanks and praise. Second, as an engineer, I find it almost amusing that God gave you a temporary hot fix to get you functional again, and then led you to a permanent fix that you could implement yourself. But relating to this thread: This was a covental healing, analogous to God healing Hannah’s infertility, and Hannah promising to dedicate her child to the Lord. It might seem transactional, but I think that’s an unfair characterization. God sovereignly accepted Hannah’s prayer, and Hannah kept her promise. And Fluffy, I think you’ve kept your promise too.

So interesting that you should say this. The other day I had a moment where I knew "I had kept all of my promises to God."

I am trying to figure out what that is about but I guess I'll find out someday.

 

[dev553344]

This subject came up in a recent conversation on another thread, and I realized I don't think it's ever been discussed here on this forum before.

That said, the above is a Faith teaching, with which I am familiar. Be advised: I want all contributions to this thread to be respectful of the other people's positions. If not, you may be reported by yours truly. But there is both truth and falsehood in Faith teaching. Any post given should have a scriptural basis, so please post in full the verses you are using to establish your argument.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

If we didn't need physicians than why would Jesus mention it? Jesus is proclaiming himself as a doctor here:

Matthew 9:12 ESV / 141 helpful votes

But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm going to tag a few of you guys here to show you why faith that God can heal is important. I don't know this brother well, but maybe some of you do. Anyway, he seems to be despairing of life, and if you read my response in this thread, I think that is the more proper way to view the onset of sickness, so as not to give up hope. The Faith position does not simply roll over. It will accept things if it does all it can and healing never comes, but it fights against the enemy to the last breathe unless otherwise told not to.

6 Days Of Covid. A Real Test of my Faith!

Sorry bro

People claiming that EVERYONE will be healed all they have to do is have faith. They are a danger to the church and to people they are teaching.

God does heal people. As the video you show shows. It does not mean he heals everyone.

Health and wealth is a dangerous doctrine. Period.

I am all for teaching faith. And we have it here in my church. But you can go to far.

Forgive me, After reading @Faithbuilders comments. Stuff like that is just wrong and dangerous

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. There are other peoples' wills and it is a fallen world. But healing is available. It just isn't instant like a miracle would be. There is a time for everything though. I think it is easier to receive healing when one is walking and believing in the Word of God.

Yet people walk and live the wrd, and are not healed.

God heals. Amen and Amen.

But God does not promise healing. And not just because of punishment. God uses the bad in this world as good in the kingdom.

Illness is just part of the worl walking away from God. There will be sickness and death.

We can pray for healing, If God heals. Amen, If not. Amen.

I better get it of here. I am saddened by some I have read here (not you sis, not you)

 

[Waiting on him]

The Lord is just - he's not going to wait for me to pray for you to heal you, if you've repented of your sin.

Apparently you don’t realize. For some odd reason most people believe the scripture is talking about physical healing. Like blindness deafening, cancer, restoring of limbs.

 

[Bob Estey]

Apparently you don’t realize. For some odd reason most people believe the scripture is talking about physical healing. Like blindness deafening, cancer, restoring of limbs.

You've got to understand that God is perfect. If you repent of your sin, he will forgive you and heal you.

 

[Berserk]

The Book of Sirach (c. 200-180 AD) is in the Apocrypha section of the Catholic OT.
Jesus respects this book enough to use it for the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:12) and in His commentary on it (6:14-15):

"Forgive your neighbor the wrong he has done, and then your sins will be forgiven when you pray (Sirach 28:2).

Sirach wisely articulates the proper balance between medicine and faith healing:

"The Lord created medicines out of the earth and the sensible will not despise them...By them the physician heals and takes away pain; the pharmacist makes a mixture from them...My child, when you are sick, pray to the Lord and He will heal you. Then give the physician his place,...for you need him too (Sirach 38:4, 7, 9, 12)."

I think Jesus would endorse this teaching. Too bad that teaching is absent from our Bible. No, I'm not advocating the inclusion of Sirach in our OT Canon.

 

[Faithbuilders]

I hate to seem senselessly argumentative here, because I'm not, but this directly contradicts the passage. Judgment comes precisely because they will NOT enter into conviction and judge themselves.

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

And I feel, it agrees, for we judge ourselves when the conviction comes, so that we are not judged because of condemnation!

But, I feel, the point is lost here. Bad things happen, people don't always receive there healing... I don't have all the answers as to why - and i don't need to. All I need is to know what the Bible says for MY situation; all I need to know is that I can walk in health according to the Word! I don't need to explain why someone else did not receive their healing, I don't know where they are at in faith, or what is going on in their life. I can't answer if someone in under judgment (there is a point if someone just does not repent that they are given over to the devil for the destruction of their flesh). All I can do is trust the Word of God is true, and take it for my own life.

All I can do is read the Bible as a child, "if my daddy says by the stripes of Jesus you are healed, then I believe my daddy that I am healed!"

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Lord is just - he's not going to wait for me to pray for you to heal you, if you've repented of your sin.

But Bob, if the above were all there was to it, James would have simply said, "Just repent, and God will heal you." But He said more than this, correct?

 

[Faithbuilders]

So the intent of the judgement is good and can still be forgiven. It isn't condemnation, correct?

If we judge ourselves it is good, but there is different type of judgment, the judgment that comes one us because we refuse to repent, comes with condemnation, and is far more painful then if we judge ourselves.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I wanted to circle back on this one because this is a special case of faith healing. First, I didn’t want a good testimony go by without a quiet prayer of thanks and praise. Second, as an engineer, I find it almost amusing that God gave you a temporary hot fix to get you functional again, and then led you to a permanent fix that you could implement yourself. But relating to this thread: This was a covenantal healing, analogous to God healing Hannah’s infertility, and Hannah promising to dedicate her child to the Lord. It might seem transactional, but I think that’s an unfair characterization. God sovereignly accepted Hannah’s prayer, and Hannah kept her promise. And Fluffy, I think you’ve kept your promise too.

Thanks for returning to it, Lambano, because in all the things I was supposed to respond to, I completely missed this post of hers.

So interesting that you should say this. The other day I had a moment where I knew "I had kept all of my promises to God."

I am trying to figure out what that is about but I guess I'll find out someday.

Sister, your post that I missed is an excellent example of the way healing can work sometimes, and why it is important to stay in faith. I've had similar things happen. He just starts revealing things to you if what has caused the problem was something to do with your lifestyle or diet. I started getting numbness in my hands and fingers, and then they would hurt. I remember it was effecting how well I could play bass in church (You need a lot of hand pressure to play bass, especially if you are doing a lot of moving). But when I began praying about it, I don't even remember how I found out now, but the Lord revealed to me it was because I was carrying too much weight and it was causing carpal tunnel. I mentioned carpal tunnel to my uncle, and he told me he had gotten carpel tunnel when he was younger and had the surgery done for it (also a bass player). But once I realized it was just being caused by weight gain, I lost some weight, and Voila! No more pain and numbness. To this day that is still the fix, and obviously still the cause, because if I gain too much weight back, the condition will return. Lose it back, and the pain goes away.

This is part of what happens when you believe God for healing. Your ears become open to what the Holy Spirit is saying, and if it is being caused by poor lifestyle choices and can be fixed by a few simple changes, He will reveal it to you.

Thanks for sharing your testimony, and sorry I missed it.

 

[Faithbuilders]

My friends, I am gracefully bowing out of this conversation; Paul says don't get caught up in futile arguments. The point I have been trying to get across is getting lost, that point is it does not mater what experience you, me, or someone else may have, the word of God is final authority! I will continue to believe the word of God - and continue to walk in perfect health until the day I go home. And you can also; if you don't put God in a box by saying that healing in only spiritual healing. Have Faith in God! Have Faith in His Word!

God Bless You All!

 

[Hidden In Him]

If we didn't need physicians than why would Jesus mention it? Jesus is proclaiming himself as a doctor here:

Matthew 9:12 ESV / 141 helpful votes

But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

Well I'm not saying there is no need of physicians. As per my previous post, there are numerous instances where a little wisdom regarding the physical side of things can be all you really need. But like all professions, sometimes doctors are not always as good as they could be, so it is better to rely on God first and foremost. I'm guessing most doctors would have told me I needed surgery, and that would have been needless and expensive.

But I am all in favor of going to doctors, so long as one also uses a little wisdom and doesn't rely upon them exclusively, and forget that God is the Great Physician.