Should Christians Always Be Healed?

[Lambano]

I'm getting your point better now that I'm hearing the song : )

Nice when that happens. But you picked up on the fact that I couldn't put my feelings into words.

I guess for us to learn whatever it is we’re supposed to learn, some things aren’t going to get fixed in this world ‘til Jesus comes back.

 

[Curtis]

I actually wondered about that a little myself. I can't think of too many sinners who are moved by how faithful we remained to a God who never healed us. I can think of plenty who would be impressed by how we refused to return evil for evil, for instance, but staying faithful to what appears to be an unfaithful God might come off as being kinda stupid, and trusting in a God that isn't there. Not saying that's the way they should interpret it, but it is likely the way they would, and do.

Miracles have always confirmed the word of God, in the first century, and today as well.

 

[Waiting on him]

But where I think I want to go is this: I trust that God will make everything right in the World to Come. I have to trust that, or life becomes unbearable. But I do not believe that it is God’s will that healing always comes in this world, and if it doesn’t, it was somebody’s fault. And I think empirical observation bears this out. Caring for a friend with cancer has forced me to learn patience and sacrifice. But suffering sucks, and all I can do is try to make things a little better.

Empirical observation…… I love this!

 

[Waiting on him]

Miracles have always confirmed the word of God, in the first century, and today as well.

I chose to believe it is the Spirit of God within me that bares witness of Him. Miracles as spoken in scripture where a confirmation that the Christ was The Son of God before the Holy Spirit had been given, later in the first century alone miracles were a confirmation of Apostleship. This was for the Jews.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I guess if I was debating I did a pretty good job then coming out with a stalemate then. LOL. In the end we agree in Heaven when everyone is healed. And we both agree judgement happens. God wants people healed, they just have to not do the wrong and follow the Word.

Btw, I think you are actually getting better at debating, but by "stalemate" I just meant that since we are both set in our own positions, there aren't really any "moves" left atm. I didn't necessarily mean you were presenting an equally strong case.

But hope you have a great day. Let me know if you want to continue.
- H

 

[Mayflower]

Btw, I think you are actually getting better at debating, but by "stalemate" I just meant that since we are both set in our own positions, there aren't really any "moves" left atm. I didn't necessarily mean you were presenting an equally strong case.

But hope you have a great day. Let me know if you want to continue.
- H

Ooooooh ouch! LOL

 

[Mayflower]

This would be a fundamental difference in our worldview then, and it's a very significant debate theologically.

My response would be that His intent was to establish a perfect government in the earth throughout all eternity, one where His authority and right to rule would never be questioned. The only way that could become possible was if we had to acknowledge his superiority over us in some way, and being a man like us, the only way for that to happen (the way He chose anyway) was for us to be sinners and Him to be sinless, and pay for our redemption through His blood, that every knee might bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord throughout forever, world without end.

Sounds like it would make for a good discussion sometime too.

I'll follow for awhile to catch up on what everyone else is saying now. Thanks for the discussion!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sounds like it would make for a good discussion sometime too.

I think someone actually did post a thread on this awhile back, but I didn't really participate.

I'll follow for awhile to catch up on what everyone else is saying now. Thanks for the discussion!

You got it.

And another hour long video?! I'm still in the 20th minute on the other one, LoL.

Yeah, they do a decent job, despite the stuff I traditionally disagree with in Faith teaching. I wish the naysayers would watch the 12th minute in this one. There are just too many scriptures that teach the need for faith in receiving things from God. I know the discrepancies I'm sharing with you are true, but it's an advancement on things that typically accompany most Faith teaching, and it's hard for me to teach them because it puts me in a position of sounding like I oppose Faith teaching which is anything but the case. I incorporated this stuff into my life more than twenty years ago, and apply it daily when necessary. So it puts me in a strange position when it comes to discussing it.

Anyway, if you take a few days to catch up that's fine by me. I've been at it for two days straight, and my interests change so quickly that I could maybe use a few days rest from it as well (though someone may post something that gets me going again).

So talk to ya when I talk to ya!
Peace!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That doesn’t happen.

They come to Christ when they see God doesn’t leave believers in their sickness, but heals them.

I am saddened you have not witnessed Gods glory in weakness

Because I have witnessed what I posted numerous times in my life. And God most surely does get the glory.

He gets glory when someone is healed. Amen. He gets just as much glory when someone who is not healed is able to use that sickness to serve God and bring people to the light.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again God allowed the flood, but did He will that? Or was it because of peoples' sin that He was bound to His righteous and just nature against sin?

He did not allow it sister, He Caused it. The flood itself if one really looked at it. I believe was a miracle. But not the miracle we tend to look at. Because it had negative affects.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not a very defensible position however, I'm afraid. God didn't allow the flood, He brought the flood

7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I repent that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. (Genesis 6:7-8)


Now this is closer to the truth. More accurately put, He will not tolerate sin forever. As the Peter passage you quoted states, He is slow to judgment. He proved this even with Jezebel, telling them, "I warned her several times to repent of her sins." But judgment day DOES come eventually, and when it does there will be nothing stopping it.

The positive side is that, if at all possible, He seeks only to correct. But for those who will not receive correction, the results can be catastrophic.

Amen

He did nto let Israel have Canaan for 400 years because the sin of the amortize was not yet complete. They still had hope

When all hope was lost. He told Israel to go in and kill everyone. And God led the charge. Like the flood, it was punishment for a people who had no hope of repentance because they were to far gone in unbelief.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So these are the questions right from post 159, right?


Now, the question becomes this: If it is always God's will to heal, what was He doing here? If you take the position that it is always His desire to heal and never to bring judgment through sickness and death, for starters there are several passages that contradict this argument, but the key question is, how can He ever discipline His people?

God disciplines His people because He has too. But that is because of our will. He has to correct us so we will not be condemned with the world.






Now, the question becomes this: If it is always God's will to heal, what was He doing here? If you take the position that it is always His desire to heal and never to bring judgment through sickness and death, for starters there are several passages that contradict this argument, but the key question is, how can He ever discipline His people?

I look at it this way,

It is always Gods desire to heal. He just may not fulfill it until the next lifetime, when there will be no more sickness and death

That is promised in eternity future, it is not promised in the present.

Like you said, Correction, is one reason, I also think of prevention. God used Pauls thorn in the flesh to keep him focused on God because there was something in paul that needed to be kept in check (I believe it was his pride) I see this in others to0, as I look at them and think if they did not have this ailment, how it would be so easy for them to get off track. And thirdly, he uses the disease, and illness and suffering of people to help others and bring them to christ. Joni Erickson Tada is my example of this.

All these people will be healed. Just maybe not in this lifetime

 

[Lambano]

All these people will be healed. Just maybe not in this lifetime

I understand it; I don’t have to like it. (But I “Liked” it. )

I fully understand if saying, “It’ll all work out in the sweet by-and-by” really sticks in someone’s craw. Especially if they're suffering right now. But I don’t see any other way to live right now and not sink into bitterness or go the other way into hedonism.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Interesting question. I do not believe God put it in His design that we would sin. I believe He designed us to have a free will because He didn't want robots loving Him. He wanted to be loved freely. He knew we would sin like He knows who is going to choose Hell. But His will wasn't for Adam to eat the fruit and die. He chose that.

Amen,

It is giving free will that allowed for the ability to chose self over God (sin)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I understand it; I don’t have to like it. (But I “Liked” it. )

I fully understand if saying, “It’ll all work out in the sweet by-and-by” really sticks in someone’s craw. But I don’t see any other way to live now and not sink into bitterness.

Paul endured great suffering, and called it a momentary light affliction. Because when he looked at eternity, He saw that this life is so short. That in comparison. Even death had no grip. To be absent from the body was to be present with the lord.

 

[Lambano]

Amen,

It is giving free will that allowed for the ability to choose self over God (sin)

In other words, sin comes with the territory, and God knew it and still made the decision to create us the way He created us. Though my five-year Calvinist sparring partner would disagree that we have "Free Will". Choosing self over anyone else and looking out for numero uno is as "natural as venom in a Gila Monster", to throw out another one of those quotable quotes, this one from sci-fi author Robert Heinlein, who was a cynic, not a Christian. With a nod to George Carlin, who also was a cynic, not a Christian.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1 Timothy 5:23 KJV
[23] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
Seems Brother Timothy was in need of some healing. Overseer of one of the first century churches yet not healed.. Paul doesn’t even demand God to heal him, but instead says drink some wine.

curious why Jesus turned the water into wine?

‘so when He came to Galilee, the Galileans received Him, having seen all the things that He did in Jerusalem at the feast; for they themselves also went to the feast. Therefore He came again to Cana where He had made the water wine.’ John 2:2-11

and when the head waiter tasted the water now become wine, and knew not from where it come from (but the servants that had drawn the water knew John 4:11) the head waiter called the bridegroom.

yea …for timid Timothys spirit of fear, much like the rest of them hiding behind shut doors (trembling) after his crucifixion fearing what men might come take and do to them…(Imo) Paul wasn’t speaking of any ol’ wine but that wine the bridegroom had drawn up: come and drink? Taste and see that God is good.

 

[DuckieLady]

@Hidden In Him

I was convinced I had 0 healings in my life until reading through your posts about kidney stones.

Years ago, I had a pain in my side. Some days I couldn't walk or get out of bed. I would scream in pain and be in the bath mostly on my side because it was the only relief. I thought I had gallbladder stones.

Multiple trips to ER. Even an ambulance. Multiple doctors in separate cities. Nobody could help and kept just handing me Maalox or saying it was "muscle confusion".

The EMT was the only one who actually cared and stood up for me, especially when they accused me of being on drugs or self-harm, because I had burn marks on my wrist from being short and making eggs. (Leaned my arm on the edge of the pan)

A year or two more of this, during an episode I was home alone in pain and prayed out something to God like I would follow him and I'll hand myself over to Him, but just heal me.

I remember I could stand up after that and quickly later after a Daniel fast,
I figured out it was caused by food allergies. (Nuts and soy)

So after calling out, I was given relief, but there was a process of "figuring it out" via Daniel fast and a box of Kashi to know what to do.

I think I have been free of that now since maybe 2018 or something.

 

[marks]

If you were to take the position that "God will save me if He wants to, and if He doesn't He won't," you would likely become too passive on the issue, and not make any strides on your own to read your Bible, pray, seek God for His help, or even have any relation with Him.

I don't see this the same. And I don't see the behaviors connected either. Maybe for someone. This sounds like the thinking that unless you think the responsibility for the outcome is on your shoulders, you won't try hard enough. I reject that thinking fully, as not allowing the work of the Holy Spirit.

And notwithstanding, at the end of the day, I don't trust that I'm going to be 100% accurate in my understanding of what God's will is, and it's really not a cop out to say that I don't know if this or that time will be the time I'm wrong, or maybe I'll be wrong both times, but I'll never be wrong to trust God with full assurance that He's bringing the right and good outcome.

"We believe, therefore we speak."

Do you have faith to be healed? Receive the healing. Do you have faith to heal another? Give that healing. Do you question God's will? Then just realize He hasn't revealed it to you yet. When He has you won't question.

Are you trying to get a grasp on a feeling of assurance over something of which God has not assured you? Wait on Him.

Much love!

 

[Mayflower]

He did not allow it sister, He Caused it. The flood itself if one really looked at it. I believe was a miracle. But not the miracle we tend to look at. Because it had negative affects.

Yeh I wrote that wrong for sure. I realized later when Hidden mentioned it. It is sad He had to, but thankful for the ark that preserved life.