should christians be members of a political party

[Foreigner]

Hmm...is that what you say to Jesus in response to Matt 19:[sup]21 [/sup]Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”?

-- Please note, Jesus calls you to sell YOUR OWN possessions. He doesn't call on you to coerce others to sell theirs.
He also doesn't tell you to pass laws to force others to give more of thier possessions than they wish to.
That is because when you stand before God, you will be judged on what you yourself gave, and NOT on what you helped for others to give.
God will judged those others on what they chose to give, and not what you or others FORCED them to give.

Here is the real question: How can anyone steal money from God? All the wealth in the world is given to people to manage - we own nothing.

-- God will judge us on what we as individuals did with the money He allowed us to acquire.
He is not going to give us kudos on how well we forced others to part with the money he allowed them to acquire.
And I would love to be there in a court of law when you try to justify your theft by saying, "But it wasn't their money, it was GOD'S money."


Strat,
What Aspen chooses to miss is that while there are millions on Welfare who absolutely need it (mental/physical affliction or a family member with one that requires full-time care, multiple children to care for due to a divorce, etc.etc. etc.......there are also millions that are on the program simply because it is free money, and easier than having to find and keep a job and take full responsibility for their own lives

They too will have to account to God for what they did with His money.

This is where Aspen normally says, "But that will be between them and God," as he did when arguing for Gay Marraige......missing the point that that same statement applies to those who choose not to let Democrats use confiscatory laws to force them to give more money.

 

[aspen]

Foreigner said,

-- Please note, Jesus calls you to sell YOUR OWN possessions. He doesn't call on you to coerce others to sell theirs.
He also doesn't tell you to pass laws to force others to give more of thier possessions than they wish to.
That is because when you stand before God, you will be judged on what you yourself gave, and NOT on what you helped for others to give.
God will judged those others on what they chose to give, and not what you or others FORCED them to give.

Mathew 22:15

-- God will judge us on what we as individuals did with the money He allowed us to acquire.
He is not going to give us kudos on how well we forced others to part with the money he allowed them to acquire.
And I would love to be there in a court of law when you try to justify your theft by saying, "But it wasn't their money, it was GOD'S money."

So you are saying that human law regarding private ownership overrides what Jesus tells us? Since when do human laws superceed God's laws for Christians?


Strat,
What Aspen chooses to miss is that while there are millions on Welfare who absolutely need it (mental/physical affliction or a family member with one that requires full-time care, multiple children to care for due to a divorce, etc.etc. etc.......there are also millions that are on the program simply because it is free money, and easier than having to find and keep a job and take full responsibility for their own lives

Not at all, Aspen is simply willing to live with the waste when it comes to helping the poor - just like restaurants accept the waste and the taxpayer accepts military waste.

 

[Foreigner]

Foreigner said,

-- Please note, Jesus calls you to sell YOUR OWN possessions. He doesn't call on you to coerce others to sell theirs.
He also doesn't tell you to pass laws to force others to give more of thier possessions than they wish to.
That is because when you stand before God, you will be judged on what you yourself gave, and NOT on what you helped for others to give.
God will judged those others on what they chose to give, and not what you or others FORCED them to give.

Mathew 22:15 - Aspen

-- I agree. And you've played the role of the Pharisees perfectly....



-- God will judge us on what we as individuals did with the money He allowed us to acquire.
He is not going to give us kudos on how well we forced others to part with the money he allowed them to acquire.
And I would love to be there in a court of law when you try to justify your theft by saying, "But it wasn't their money, it was GOD'S money."

So you are saying that human law regarding private ownership overrides what Jesus tells us? Since when do human laws superceed God's laws for Christians?

-- I am sorry you are so confused. Here, let me help you:
If you are going to argue that what Jesus tells us suprecedes man's law, then I am afraid you are stuck agreeing with me because God calls us to be generous with what we as individuals have. He does NOT however call us confiscate the wealth of others.



Strat,
What Aspen chooses to miss is that while there are millions on Welfare who absolutely need it (mental/physical affliction or a family member with one that requires full-time care, multiple children to care for due to a divorce, etc.etc. etc.......there are also millions that are on the program simply because it is free money, and easier than having to find and keep a job and take full responsibility for their own lives

Not at all, Aspen is simply willing to live with the waste when it comes to helping the poor - just like restaurants accept the waste and the taxpayer accepts military waste. - Aspen

-- Of course you feel that way. After all the $100 Billion a year in waste is someone else's money...

But if I may, a little something for you to ponder on:

"For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat". - 2 Thess 3: 7-12


Face it Aspen, if you are going to argue that God's law supercedes man's law, then you have no choice but to agree with me.

You again find yourself on the wrong side of Scripture.

(Oh, and please don't play pretend ignorant and act like you don't know I am only talking about those on Welfare who shouldn't be there. Thanks.)





.

 

[aspen]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/30/business/30military.html

http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/is-pentagon-waste-even-more-egregious-than-welfare-state-waste/

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Corporate_Welfare/Military_Fraud.html

 

[Foreigner]

But what was that other thing you were mentioning? Oh yes....."God's law supercedes man's law."


"For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat". - 2 Thess 3: 7-12


But for you, apparently not when it disagrees with your politics....




,

 

[aspen]

Foreigner said,

But what was that other thing you were mentioning? Oh yes....."God's law supercedes man's law."

Actually, I believe I asked a question, but thanks for misquoting me once again - at least you are consistent. Also, thanks for not answering the question, as well - I guess missing reading questions as statements gets you off the hook?

But for you, apparently not when it disagrees with your politics....

I hope you are speaking to yourself.

I have mention many times that I have no problem being wrong - just because my understanding does not match up perfectly with the Vatican or God, doesn't mean that I determine they are wrong and I am right.

 

[Foreigner]

Your rhetorical question was "Since when do human laws superceed God's laws for Christians?" - Aspen

"For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat". - 2 Thess 3: 7-12

-- If you are a Christian then this - God's law - should supercede what you obviously want to have happen.

Knowing where God stands, yet standing against it shows that although you are a Christian, you feel man's law should superced God's law.

Unless you don't actually agree with your rhetorical question lol



.

 

[aspen]

Your rhetorical question was "Since when do human laws superceed God's laws for Christians?" - Aspen

"For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat". - 2 Thess 3: 7-12

-- If you are a Christian then this - God's law - should supercede what you obviously want to have happen.

Knowing where God stands, yet standing against it shows that although you are a Christian, you feel man's law should superced God's law.

Unless you don't actually agree with your rhetorical question lol



.

Not at all; it just means that I am being honest about what I believe, at this moment in my life. Saying that I disagree with God or the Vatican says nothing about them. It may be popular among many Christians to stop thinking about all things that they believe God has definitively answered in the Bible - I think it is intellectually dishonest and I am not going to do it.

 

[Brother James]

-- Please note, Jesus calls you to sell YOUR OWN possessions. He doesn't call on you to coerce others to sell theirs.
He also doesn't tell you to pass laws to force others to give more of thier possessions than they wish to.

You mean taxes and welfare DON'T constitute charity?

 

[us2are1]

Christians are only members of Christ.

 

[Strat]

I am particulary amused when liberals try to elevate their well known,tried and failed socialism to some sort of intellectual exercise....like Monkeys playing with rubber balls.

 

[us2are1]

I am particulary amused when liberals try to elevate their well known,tried and failed socialism to some sort of intellectual exercise....like Monkeys playing with rubber balls.

The Romans were also amused when the first church were fed to the Lions.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

If I sold everything I owned and gave my money away .... I would "feel good" for a few minutes.

After that i would feel like a Christian bum because I would be required to mooch off everybody else to be housed and fed.

And all the Christians and non Christians would spend the rest of their days telling me I am a poor manager and poor example.

Right ?

Besides .... if I got rid of everything to follow Jesus .... I have a problem .... Jesus is not here walking around ... so what do I do ..... follow an imaginary Jesus ??

If so , then I already have an imaginary Jesus i follow .... I try to provide for myself and then try to help those in need or less fortunate. But it really doesn't amount to much. No praise for me.

Sometimes i imagine that my imaginary Jesus will let me win the lottery .... so I can really help out the poor.

So far He has not. .Why should He. ? . So I can be glorious and generous? .Cant fool the real Jesus.

However .... I feel that on occasion some people do give up everything to following a clear call by the Lord for special ministry or missionary work etc. They depend (with confidence) that the Lord will provide .... and he does .... by using us ordinary folks who have not given up everything in an unwise manner.

On that same token .... if I sold everything and gave the money away ..... then asked other Christians to support me in missions .... they should ask me why I did not simply use my money to support myself in missions in the first place.

I would have to agree.

I also find that folks who think we should get rid of everything , are the same folks who have nothing , and if they did , they would never share.

My opinion , best wishes.

'still hoping for the lottery of course
some things never change

 

[us2are1]

If I sold everything I owned and gave my money away .... I would "feel good" for a few minutes.

After that i would feel like a Christian bum because I would be required to mooch off everybody else to be housed and fed.

And all the Christians and non Christians would spend the rest of their days telling me I am a poor manager and poor example.

Right ?

Besides .... if I got rid of everything to follow Jesus .... I have a problem .... Jesus is not here walking around ... so what do I do ..... follow an imaginary Jesus ??

If so , then I already have an imaginary Jesus i follow .... I try to provide for myself and then try to help those in need or less fortunate. But it really doesn't amount to much. No praise for me.

Sometimes i imagine that my imaginary Jesus will let me win the lottery .... so I can really help out the poor.

So far He has not. .Why should He. ? . So I can be glorious and generous? .Cant fool the real Jesus.

However .... I feel that on occasion some people do give up everything to following a clear call by the Lord for special ministry or missionary work etc. They depend (with confidence) that the Lord will provide .... and he does .... by using us ordinary folks who have not given up everything in an unwise manner.

On that same token .... if I sold everything and gave the money away ..... then asked other Christians to support me in missions .... they should ask me why I did not simply use my money to support myself in missions in the first place.

I would have to agree.

I also find that folks who think we should get rid of everything , are the same folks who have nothing , and if they did , they would never share.

My opinion , best wishes.

'still hoping for the lottery of course
some things never change

Don't worry The Lord's witnesses are here to force everyone out of their hoses and their comfort zones. Everyone will be forced to find faith in God or become food for the truly wicked of the earth. My advice is to ask God daily to fill you with the Spirit of His Son so that you will have something to offer when the worlds goods perish.

 

[Strat]

The Romans were also amused when the first church were fed to the Lions.

You have a point ?

 

[Foreigner]

You mean taxes and welfare DON'T constitute charity?

-- lol That reminds me of the phrase "Congratulations, you've just volunteered!"

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Don't worry The Lord's witnesses are here to force everyone out of their hoses and their comfort zones. Everyone will be forced to find faith in God or become food for the truly wicked of the earth. My advice is to ask God daily to fill you with the Spirit of His Son so that you will have something to offer when the worlds goods perish.

If I did that I might end up like you.

I fail to see how that would be beneficial for me at this time.