should christians be members of a political party

[revturmoil]

when you vote you are voting for the party, you are promoting what they stand for. Do you really believe the president works alone, no he submits to his political party (not the people like they are suppose to).

Your vote does not matter. Both parties are under the control of the banks, large corporations, the elite, the UN and Satan.

As Jesus warns His people in Rev. 18, He warns His children again today, get out of the evil government world systems.

Jesus: "Come away from her (Babylon, America, the UN), my people.
Do not take part in her sins,
or you will be punished with her." Rev. 18

surrender only what is do by law, but do not support its wicked ways, and when you cast that vote, you are of the world, not the Spirit.

I doubt you'll ever change your mind. Christian's just don't care a whole lot for 'repentance.'

Babylon is Babylon. It always has been and always will be. The only thing I know of that Babylon is symbolic of is 'false religion.'

http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/babylon-is-still-babylon/

 

[Stan]

We are very fortunate in Canada to have a Prime Minister who is Christian. He is also an economist by trade , not a lawyer like most politicians.

It has been a long haul for him but he has turned our country in the right direction.

He's from Calgary Arnie and I've never heard that. How do you know this? He sure doesn't act like a Christian.

 

[[email protected]]

I've registered independent all my voting life. I usually vote for the person and not the party. This time I just can't see voting for the rich and powerful (Romney and his kronie) because republican policy always ends up as "uncontrolled capitalism" and it's what got us into this hole. We always have a recession after 8 years of republicanism.

"Any individual who is able to raise [enough money] to be considered presidential is not going to be much use to the people at large. He will represent...whatever moneyed entities are paying for him.... Hence, the sense of despair throughout the land as incomes fall, businesses fail and there is no redress."
- GORE VIDAL

I won't be voting for Romney either, but that doesn't automatically mean I'll vote for our current fascist president Mr. Obama. I intend voting for Gov. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. I realize that if Libertarians gather 2% of the national vote it will be lucky, but I figure that my vote is a vote of conscience. I cannot vote for either major party, since both are two heads of the same snake.

George Soros, who Republicans and GB alike feel is a son of -whatever you want to call him-, has stated publicly that it doesn't matter to him which major candidate is elected. If I may paraphrase him, he said 'we're ok with either one'. I think that says something about the current state of the nation.

America is lost.

We have institutionalized war. It is like a tick that has become so embedded into the flesh of our national policymakers that it cannot be removed and it is the single greatest factor leading to our downfall. No nation in history that has long adopted this attitude has long endured, and we've had this obsession since WWII. America is drunk on war and like alcoholism it will destroy us. We trust our guns, not God and in so doing we may die by the gun. Wisdom has fled the halls of government and in its place we find murder and lies.

"The United States has always been a nation of ongoing hustlers from the prisons and disaster areas of old Europe. I do not think that the American System in its present state of decadence is worth preserving. The initial success of the United States was largely accidental. A rich empty continent was exploited by rapacious Europeans who made slaves of Africans and corpses of Indians in the process."
- GORE VIDAL

Whether most Christians openly agree with Vidal's statement or not, it is patently obvious that they do so by default. My reasoning for saying such a thing is the rather false attitude that Romans 13 justifies the support of wickedness in government. As a result, the policies of our government are not discussed from the pulpit, in many Christian publications or privately among the brethren.

Just one question left to ask. If Romans 13 requires us to support the debauched policies of the existing government, and if opposing such government is wrong, then what justification do we have for celebrating the 1776 Revolution against the crown of England?

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[aspen]

I am retiring from politics.

 

[Stan]

"Any individual who is able to raise [enough money] to be considered presidential is not going to be much use to the people at large. He will represent...whatever moneyed entities are paying for him.... Hence, the sense of despair throughout the land as incomes fall, businesses fail and there is no redress."
- GORE VIDAL

I won't be voting for Romney either, but that doesn't automatically mean I'll vote for our current fascist president Mr. Obama. I intend voting for Gov. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. I realize that if Libertarians gather 2% of the national vote it will be lucky, but I figure that my vote is a vote of conscience. I cannot vote for either major party, since both are two heads of the same snake.

George Soros, who Republicans and GB alike feel is a son of -whatever you want to call him-, has stated publicly that it doesn't matter to him which major candidate is elected. If I may paraphrase him, he said 'we're ok with either one'. I think that says something about the current state of the nation.

America is lost.

We have institutionalized war. It is like a tick that has become so embedded into the flesh of our national policymakers that it cannot be removed and it is the single greatest factor leading to our downfall. No nation in history that has long adopted this attitude has long endured, and we've had this obsession since WWII. America is drunk on war and like alcoholism it will destroy us. We trust our guns, not God and in so doing we may die by the gun. Wisdom has fled the halls of government and in its place we find murder and lies.

"The United States has always been a nation of ongoing hustlers from the prisons and disaster areas of old Europe. I do not think that the American System in its present state of decadence is worth preserving. The initial success of the United States was largely accidental. A rich empty continent was exploited by rapacious Europeans who made slaves of Africans and corpses of Indians in the process."
- GORE VIDAL

Whether most Christians openly agree with Vidal's statement or not, it is patently obvious that they do so by default. My reasoning for saying such a thing is the rather false attitude that Romans 13 justifies the support of wickedness in government. As a result, the policies of our government are not discussed from the pulpit, in many Christian publications or privately among the brethren.

Just one question left to ask. If Romans 13 requires us to support the debauched policies of the existing government, and if opposing such government is wrong, then what justification do we have for celebrating the 1776 Revolution against the crown of England?

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

LOL...don't hold back rjp...tell us how you really feel.

BTW, Romans 13 calls us to 'submit' and be obedient to the law of the land, not support policies that go against God's law. Paul wrote a more detailed instruction in Phil 2 and summed it up in verse 14-15 where he wrote; Do everything without grumbling or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.”

God does NOT call us to be reactionary nor rebellious towards our governments, even if your are ex government.

and that's just me posting from my computer. No need to holler!

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

If someone was to ask my bottom line opinion about our governments and elections .... my honest answer is that many voters are absolute idiots and should stay home at election time because they do not have a clue about anything.

 

[Ruth]

I doubt you'll ever change your mind. Christian's just don't care a whole lot for 'repentance.'

Babylon is Babylon. It always has been and always will be. The only thing I know of that Babylon is symbolic of is 'false religion.'

http://heavenawaits....-still-babylon/

Babylon represents any system against God. Just like Jesus used "like the days of Noah and Lot, Sodom and Gomorrah", to describe what the world will look like when He returns, men against God, sin and debauchery would be excepted as normal.

Those who believe their vote counts as anything really need to research how our government is controlled by world banks, corporations, the elite, and China. Both parties are in great sin, no one gave Ron Paul the light of day, now you get what you ask for.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

He's from Calgary Arnie and I've never heard that. How do you know this? He sure doesn't act like a Christian.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is indeed a christian , always has been. He attends the Christian Missionary Alliance Church. As a matter of fact when he was young and took his wife on their first date ... he took her to church. !!!!

He is also very intelligent . He knows he would never get elected in Canada by preaching , so he keeps a lid on it .... otherwise the media would eat him alive. Remember the CBC loves the atheist - evolutionist David Suzuki .... and hates the evangelical christians.

I am surprised you did not know that.

Best wishes.

 

[Stan]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper is indeed a christian , always has been. He attends the Christian Missionary Alliance Church. As a matter of fact when he was young and took his wife on their first date ... he took her to church. !!!!

He is also very intelligent . He knows he would never get elected in Canada by preaching , so he keeps a lid on it .... otherwise the media would eat him alive. Remember the CBC loves the atheist - evolutionist David Suzuki .... and hates the evangelical christians.

I am surprised you did not know that.

Best wishes.

Yeh so am I, but like I said I don't like his style so I have never really followed him. I did find the following article about him though;

http://www.macleans.ca/culture/lifestyle/article.jsp?content=20060220_121848_121848​

We learn something new everyday.
Thanks Arnie.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Stan
I agree about his style (does not look good sometimes)

But when you know his values and intelligence .... everything starts to make sense . He has a bad reputation for muzzling all his party ministers .... he had too .... remember how the reform party members were eaten alive by the media .... Stockwell Day ... Preston Manning ..... and others were ridiculed over young earth creation beliefs ... anti abortion etc. ..... Stephen Harper put a lid on all that ..... otherwise they would never win the election.

Notice the subtle shift in immigration policy ...... illegal immigrants and criminals are being deported , first time we have seen that in in 50 years ..... Now the hard working (desirable) immigrants are being more and more welcome ...... elimination of the failed gun registry .... now focus on crime itself ... spending more on the military ... less on useless welfare type stuff.

Anyway , I dont like everything he has done either , but he has had to tread lightly , minority governments etc.

He also does not have a big ego , and is not a lawyer ... he is an economist. Right now Canada is considered one of the most stable countries on the world economy. He also could care less about the media and his public image.
He would rather be busy working (trying) to do the right thing.

We are fortunate to live in a pretty good place Stan , hope it continues. I have 2 sisters and family in Calgary Next time I'm out for a visit i will look you up for coffee ..... maybe my sister will let us take her Ferrari

 

[Stan]

Stan
I agree about his style (does not look good sometimes)

But when you know his values and intelligence .... everything starts to make sense . He has a bad reputation for muzzling all his party ministers .... he had too .... remember how the reform party members were eaten alive by the media .... Stockwell Day ... Preston Manning ..... and others were ridiculed over young earth creation beliefs ... anti abortion etc. ..... Stephen Harper put a lid on all that ..... otherwise they would never win the election.

Notice the subtle shift in immigration policy ...... illegal immigrants and criminals are being deported , first time we have seen that in in 50 years ..... Now the hard working (desirable) immigrants are being more and more welcome ...... elimination of the failed gun registry .... now focus on crime itself ... spending more on the military ... less on useless welfare type stuff.

Anyway , I dont like everything he has done either , but he has had to tread lightly , minority governments etc.

He also does not have a big ego , and is not a lawyer ... he is an economist. Right now Canada is considered one of the most stable countries on the world economy. He also could care less about the media and his public image.
He would rather be busy working (trying) to do the right thing.

We are fortunate to live in a pretty good place Stan , hope it continues. I have 2 sisters and family in Calgary Next time I'm out for a visit i will look you up for coffee ..... maybe my sister will let us take her Ferrari

That would be great Arnie but forget the Ferrari...I would never fit in to it!

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

That would be great Arnie but forget the Ferrari...I would never fit in to it!

No problem. Besides I would probably decline the offer to drive it anyway. I am a car guy , but that thing is worth 4 times more than my house. Besides the dealer recommends no one drive it without special training . Its a Modena 360 (paddle shifter on the steering column)

As I get older , I am perfectly happy with my big old Pontiac Bonneville. It gets 36 mpg on the highway. Roomy as heck

Besides it has a built in feature for old guys ... if I forget my left signal light on driving across Canada ... it beeps to let me know ...

Sounds like a Jay Leno joke .... He's a car guy too .... and older than me ...

 

[aspen]

Interesting article in Forbes magazine - they just declared Barack Obama the smallest government spender since Eisenhower.

http://www.forbes.co...s-barack-obama/

 

[Foreigner]

I am retiring from politics.

-- That didn't last very long...

Interesting article in Forbes magazine - they just declared Barack Obama the smallest government spender since Eisenhower.

http://www.forbes.co...s-barack-obama/

I will ignore the fact that the author Rick Ungar has been fired from other gigs at least twice before because of "embellishment" within his writings.


Let's look at a couple of points though, shall we?

-- Obama's $780 Billion "Shovel Ready Jobs Stimulus" drove 2009's budget to over 25% of the economy and elevated the Deficit for one year to above $1 TRILLION for THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY.
Another $1 Trillion was added to the Deficit under Obama in 2010.
Another $1 Trillion was added to the Deficit under Obama in 2011.
The White House itself reported that in 2012 they will add Another $1 Trillion to the Deficit.
Mr. Obama is four for four in record Deficits.


-- Mr Obama said it was inexcusable that Mr. Bush added $4.9 Trillion to the Deficit over his EIGHT years in office. However, Mr. Obama has added more than that - $5.1 Trillion - to the Deficit in just over three years. He will have added $6 Trillion to the Deficit by the end of his first term.

This is darkly comical when you consider that President Obama, two months into his first term, promised to cut the Deficit IN HALF by the end of his first term.



-- The article's author uses CBO estimates to declare that the amount Obama will add to the deficit will actually drop in 2013. The problem with that is that CBO estimates are based on PROJECTIONS GIVEN FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

It was the White House's CBO estimates for ObamaCare that said it would cost less than a Trillion dollars. (Something that caused the CBO to do something they never do....publically question the accuracy of the estimates being provided to them.) More than a year later when the actual numbers started coming out, the CBO reported that the White House under reported the costs and ObamaCare will actually cost close to TRIPLE what the White House projected.
Read into that what you will.....



-- As far as Obama's "Jobs Stimulus," it was sold with the promise that it would ensure unemployment would not above 8% and that it would come down to 6% within 18 months.
Unemployment has since been above 8% for 42 STRAIGHT MONTHS. 29 of those months above 9%.
There are currently 300,000 fewer people in the workforce today than when Mr. Obama took office almost four years ago.

Meanwhile 46 MILLION people are currently on Food Stamps.



My favorite canard from The Obama White House is that the Republicans in the House are preventing his budget from being passed.

Mr. Obama put forth one budget which was rejected in the House 414-0....meaning not one single solitary Democrat voted for it.
That budget was also voted down in the Democrat Controlled Senate in 2011 by a vote of 97-0. Not one single Dem vote.

Translation: NOT ONE SINGLE SOLITARY DEMOCRAT IN EITHER THE HOUSE OR THE SENATE VOTED FOR HIS BUDGET.

His 2012 budget was voted down in the Senate by a vote of 99-00. Again, not one Dem wanted his name associated with it.

Obama tried again and Harry Reid wouldn't even allow it to be brought to the floor for discussion, let alone a vote.

-----> Yet - somehow - it is all the Republican's fault LOL <------


Also, the author is beautifully rebutted by the very article he linked to within his piece called "Setting Obama’s “Great Fiscal Restraint Record” Straight."





Added 9/7
CORRECTION: As of today, make that 43 months with unemployment above 8%.




.

 

[Strat]

Nobody is better at defending failure than a liberal,if they succeed its because they are briliant and if they fail its because everybody else is too stupid to go along.....this administration has done everything in its power to make life harder for those who have jobs and those who create jobs,while being a friend to anyone who wants something for nothing using the tactics of envy and peopls' twisted veiws of "fairness".

 

[aspen]

Ha! Liberals cannot even hold a candle to a conservative's ability to make greed into a virtue. Romney will only continue this tradition by protecting the rich and exploiting the poor, while calling it morality.

 

[Strat]

Ha! Liberals cannot even hold a candle to a conservative's ability to make greed into a virtue. Romney will only continue this tradition by protecting the rich and exploiting the poor, while calling it morality.

You feed off the rich and would be in the street yourself without them,you lust after their money and resent them for having more than you do....and don't even try to hide behind the bible because there is nothing in it to support your lust and desire expressed through politics to steal what you or you think others are entitled to..I will ask you in vain to provide scripture to support your position but since i know it means nothing to you i won't expect it....once again you reveal that you have no understanding of anything in regard to economics other than socialist fantasy...are you a community organizer ? why not run for president then...one made,maybe you can to.

 

[Foreigner]

Ha! Liberals cannot even hold a candle to a conservative's ability to make greed into a virtue. Romney will only continue this tradition by protecting the rich and exploiting the poor, while calling it morality.

The same guy who said earlier in this very thread:

I am retiring from politics.

As I said, that didn't last very long...



You are correct Strat.
Democrats are trying to get as many people as possible on the government dole to the point of actually recruiting people to get on food stamps.
They can then make them into a solid voting block by stating that if they vote for anyone other than a Democrat, they could end up out in the cold.
It is the Democrats who are exploiting the poor.

Bill Clinton signed Welfare Reform into law and it proved incredibly successful. He didn't want to, but he did.
Million who were living off the gov't dole are now employed, own homes, and are self-sufficient. Oh, they went screaming and kicking, but they are now successful.
I remember MN Senator Paul Wellstone stating that passage of the law would put "tens of thousands" of women and children into the streets living in refrigerator boxes within months. That of course did not happen.

The amusing thing is that Clinton declined to support it twice, but after losing the House and Senate in 1994 he was told by his advisor James Carville that if he refuses to support it a third time there would be no second term for him.




.

 

[Groundzero]

Hehehe. I'm planning to join the Australian Liberal Party soon.

 

[aspen]

Strat grumbled,

"You feed off the rich and would be in the street yourself without them,you lust after their money and resent them for having more than you do....and don't even try to hide behind the bible because there is nothing in it to support your lust and desire expressed through politics to steal what you or you think others are entitled to."

Hmm...is that what you say to Jesus in response to Matt 19:[sup]21 [/sup]Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”?

[font=Charis SIL']"I will ask you in vain to provide scripture to support your position but since i know it means nothing to you i won't expect it...."[/font]

[font=Charis SIL']Genesis 24:35 / Deuteronomy 8:16-18 / 1 Chronicles 29:12 / Mathew 25:14-30 [/font]

[font=Charis SIL']"once again you reveal that you have no understanding of anything in regard to economics other than socialist fantasy...are you a community organizer ? why not run for president then...one made,maybe you can to."[/font]

Translation: "we do not agree on the subject of economics". See, I follow Jesus's words regarding caring for the poor, while you protect the rich who are 'storing up wealth for themselves'

Here is the real question: How can anyone steal money from God? All the wealth in the world is given to people to manage - we own nothing.

Perhaps you should reference Revelation 3:17.....