should christians be members of a political party

[archaeologist5]

i have found over the years that christians who are members of secular political parties end up compromising their beliefs to obtain something from those who do not believe in God at all. I find that believers join in spite of Paul's warning against 'being unequally yoked together.' (it is not just for romantic marriage)

what is your vote and thoughts on the issue.

 

[RubberDuckey]

i have found over the years that christians who are members of secular political parties end up compromising their beliefs to obtain something from those who do not believe in God at all. I find that believers join in spite of Paul's warning against 'being unequally yoked together.' (it is not just for romantic marriage)

what is your vote and thoughts on the issue.

My vote is yes.

It is generally true that those that are in the government are most likely going to be corrupted. But that doesn't mean that all will be corrupt. Temptation is part of our lives 24/7. That doesn't mean we should give up and jump in a hole. We should be going out there and being an example of God. Ron Paul is a perfect example. I'm rooting for Ron!

 

[Johnoneone]

I vote no. Its just dumb that people like a party based on several ideas. Gays are still getting married, and abortions are still taking place.

 

[[email protected]]

I voted YES on this one, mainly because in the united States election primaries have become important in recent years. It does appear that the main election is determined in the primaries or at least influenced greatly.

People used to vote the party line; religiously. Not so much today, though.

Issues and personalities vary a lot especially when an entire campaign is fought on TV. One might vote for the major candidate in one's party, but not for a subordinate offical of the same party.

Gore Vidal said that the Democrats and the Republicans are merely two heads of the same snake. That may or may not be true since the Pentagon forms a second government which is now beyond civilian control. It matters not who sits in the White House or what their party affiliation may be with regard to Pentagon interests. Case in point is the detention and trial (by military tribunal) of foreign nationals in Cuba. Begun under the Republican administration of George W. Bush it continues under the Democratic presidency of Barack Obama (despite his campaign promise to put an end to it). It is neither fair nor accurate to blame either man for the situation. It is a military matter and beyond the jurisdiction of the President of the united States (don't quote the Constitution, it doesn't apply any more).

That being said, you all should know I'm a registered Libertarian (it's a fantasy of mine that the Libertarians are now what the Republicans once were - except without any political influence). Libertarians (like Glen Beck) enjoy standing on the political side line and yelling at everybody else as they go by (it's very convenient).

I think Christians OUGHT to particiate in politics.
We're already involved in one of the two things people say one shouldn't talk about.
Why not throw caution to the wind and do both?

 

[Johnoneone]

The presumption of your argument is elected officials bring about resolution that represents there constituents. The fractured ideals of the nation as a whole dictates the candidates promise different ideals to different groups to gather enough votes to be elected. If you haven't noticed the main ideals of the christian coalition are still unresolved. Gays are still getting married, and abortions are still taking place.

Your comment supports the disconnect that faces our nation. A republic with a democratically elected officials trying to represent a fractured populace is destine to fall apart. You can watch it happening now. A country trying to move in 10 different directions simultaneously goes no where very fast.

Divide and conquer. In this atmosphere we unknowingly enslave ourselves to those we elect. By dividing the people, elected officials are free to determine a course without compromising the will of the people at large. Simply because there is no clear majority. Its a brilliant way to dictate a free nation. The people have the freedom and power to determine the nations course. By destroying the union of the people we all become enslaved to the few candidates presented to us at election time. Its a brilliant strategy used to gain political control over democracy.

Divide and conquer

1. A combination of political, military and economic strategies that aim to gain and maintain power by breaking up larger concentrations of power into chunks that individually have less power than the one implementing the strategy
2. A strategy for achieving political or military control..

 

[aspen]

At this point, my only attraction to politics is based on my ideals. I believe government should protect the marginalized and underprivileged, I also believe that our funds should support education and the arts and sciences. Without government intervention in these areas, we will continue to support big business and breed consumers instead of educated citizens - then we will wonder how we got into the mess we are in. Unfortunately, we the American people are run by our appetites, not our reason. Corporations have bought conservatives and liberals and we have allowed our country to trade basic services, like education and healthcare for cheap products for our entertainment. Meanwhile, our health suffers because of our crappy food and poor health services; our environment is shutting down - and instead of really doing anything about it - we are actually fighting over who will control the new ocean that used to be the north pole! Conservatives talk big about morality - unfortunately their definition of morality is to punish the immoral by profiting off of their sin - as if that will teach them a lesson - they deserve it - right? Fortunately for the Right, our system is conservative to the core - the red tape, pork, and back-door dealing are all in place to make sure that any new ideas remain only ideas. The saddest part is that we the people love to complain about the government and elect officials who will promise change, and then as soon as they get into office, we realize that change is scary and who in their right mind would trust government to make positive changes!! So if their system isn't quite bogged down enough, we make sure that their hands are tied. It really is the perfect system if you want nothing to happen.

If you really want to help people, you cannot rely on government - not because government is incapable; helpful legislature doesn't have a change - it will either get bogged down in Congress, get it's funding gutted, or repealed during the next election cycle - all with the backing of the American people who cannot wait to complain about the lack of change!

 

[rockytopva]

I use to be a die hard Republican. I guess people like Newt Gingrich turned me away from the party. Newt Gingrich has been married three times and is a terrific cheater. Yet Charles Stanley will have him at the First Baptist church there in Atlanta and speak to the congregation. So he uses the church for his own political gain. Not that I don't vote for Republicans, I just can't associate myself as a Republican anymore.

 

[RubberDuckey]

I use to be a die hard Republican. I guess people like Newt Gingrich turned me away from the party. Newt Gingrich has been married three times and is a terrific cheater. Yet Charles Stanley will have him at the First Baptist church there in Atlanta and speak to the congregation. So he uses the church for his own political gain. Not that I don't vote for Republicans, I just can't associate myself as a Republican anymore.

I don't care if they call themselves Rebublican, Democrate, Liberal, tea partier, etc if they want to get America back to what its founders intended, then I WILL vote for them in 2012! If you did want to label me I would be a Juris Naturalist.

 

[aspen]

...............................

 

[aspen]

Hey, it is good to see that we are really getting serious about tightening our fiscal belts by putting NPR on the chopping block........I bet we could fund another war with all the loot we are going to save! Let's call it "CarTalk - Overseas Addition"!

 

[calbhach]

I voted yes, and the reason I say that Christians should be involved politically is because the USA is supposed to be a Christian nation. Without Christians involved politically, it's going to lose all Christian values that it ever had.

Psalms 33:12 - Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!

Romans 13:1 - Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there isno authority except from God, and those that exist have been institutedby God.

 

[Joshua David]

i have found over the years that christians who are members of secular political parties end up compromising their beliefs to obtain something from those who do not believe in God at all. I find that believers join in spite of Paul's warning against 'being unequally yoked together.' (it is not just for romantic marriage)

what is your vote and thoughts on the issue

.

I voted yes because if all the Christians completely divorced themselves from the political process, then only the non-Christians would be making all the decisions. Do I agree with everything that my party does? No. Do I agree with every politician that affiliates with my party? No. But it is not the joining of the political party that causes people to compromise their beliefs, it is lack of personal fortitude. In other words, I don't agree 100% with what my church does, and with most bible teachers that get past the milk, I do not agree 100% with everything that they teach. Does this mean that I should go to church at all? no. If I am sitting listening to a bible teacher, and he makes one point that I disagree with, do I discount the entire lesson? No.

A political party is made up of humans, just as every church is, just as humanity in general, and as such, there is going to be people in whatever group you would like to pick that doesn't measure up to their very best, but that shouldn't mean that we should totally withdraw from the system.

Just my 2 cents

Joshua David

 

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The presumption of your argument is elected officials bring about resolution that represents there constituents. The fractured ideals of the nation as a whole dictates the candidates promise different ideals to different groups to gather enough votes to be elected. If you haven't noticed the main ideals of the christian coalition are still unresolved. Gays are still getting married, and abortions are still taking place.

Your comment supports the disconnect that faces our nation. A republic with a democratically elected officials trying to represent a fractured populace is destine to fall apart. You can watch it happening now. A country trying to move in 10 different directions simultaneously goes no where very fast.

The twin issues of gay marriage and abortion have been decided primarily in the courts, not legislatures. The principal that makes a democracy work is the rule by the majority. In modern America, this is not happening. If a jury votes to condemn a prisoner, a judge may overthrow the verdict. If a city or state election passes a resolution opposed to some facet of gay rights or the abortion issue, some court will step in and overturn it. The voters no longer have a sense of voice in their own government because in actual fact they don't.

The Christian coalition is a joke. Originallly it was a haphazard political team thrown together to support Pat Robertson's 1988 bid for the presidency. Robertson didn't get more than a tiny fraction of the vote and the coalition never enjoyed any major success after that. An effort was made to remake the organization in the image of the ACLU, but it never worked either in press or in the courts. For example, public prayer is an issue that would be a proper one to raise, but the coalition has completely failed to defend that right.

 

[Groundzero]

i have found over the years that christians who are members of secular political parties end up compromising their beliefs to obtain something from those who do not believe in God at all. I find that believers join in spite of Paul's warning against 'being unequally yoked together.' (it is not just for romantic marriage)

what is your vote and thoughts on the issue.

I say YES. A very emphatic yes. I think it's necessary for us to get involved in government. God set government up, and without men of God in government, things go wrong very quickly because man strays from God's laws. Government is a position of leadership, and I believe that Christians should stop cowering and whimpering and get up there and show people by their actions that there is a God and how we set things right with him. Politics is one of these ways, as well as entertainment, media, and sport. The Bible abounds with strong Christians in government. To mention some, Moses, David, Daniel, and the three hebrew boys.

I say YES. A very emphatic yes. I think it's necessary for us to get involved in government. God set government up, and without men of God in government, things go wrong very quickly because man strays from God's laws. Government is a position of leadership, and I believe that Christians should stop cowering and whimpering and get up there and show people by their actions that there is a God and how we set things right with him. Politics is one of these ways, as well as entertainment, media, and sport. The Bible abounds with strong Christians in government. To mention some, Moses, David, Daniel, and the three hebrew boys.

As to the unequally yoked part, I think we are very unequally yoked if we let people who don't believe the Bible govern us. That is the worst case scenario and it's happening right before our eyes.

I vote no. Its just dumb that people like a party based on several ideas. Gays are still getting married, and abortions are still taking place.

Of course they are. Us Christians go and make our own parties! Maybe we should just step out and join a normal political party, say the Republicans, and let their lights shine there. Perhaps the reason all these things still run rampant is because not enough Christians have stood up, and perhaps it's because we were slack and let go of the things that we once founded!

 

[aspen]

I think being politically active is important, however.......

I cringe to think how many Christians believe that one party is Christian and the other one is secular.......

I have friends who are prisoners of the Republican party because of the issue of abortion - they are one-issue voters.......dangerous!

I have always believed that the Republican Party is the last party to change abortion laws....they would lose too many guaranteed votes.

All I am saying is that politics is not as cut and dry as we are led to believe.

 

[Thursday]

Oh yes. Religiously active voters and politicos are a key "platoon" (as Burke put it) in our society. Their input is needed or else they will eventually be chained by those who love power.


That said, there is a line Christians must tread while confronting different ideologies. Too often do I find Christians of all kinds appropriating ideological planks and incorporating them into their faith, or vice versa. A good friend of mine, while he is very intelligent (more intelligent than me anyway), loves to simplify the world to make it more suitable for his Religious Right brain to handle. To him the Founders were not influenced by Grecco-Roman thinkers like Cicero or Solon the Lawgiver, they were, in fact, all disciples of Jerry Falwell's past incarnation.

This kind of myopia is dangerous to both one's walk and the body politic. Of course, the Religious Right isn't the only group to do this. Look up Liberation Theology. That's a hoot and a half.

 

[aspen]

Oh yes. Religiously active voters and politicos are a key "platoon" (as Burke put it) in our society. Their input is needed or else they will eventually be chained by those who love power.


That said, there is a line Christians must tread while confronting different ideologies. Too often do I find Christians of all kinds appropriating ideological planks and incorporating them into their faith, or vice versa. A good friend of mine, while he is very intelligent (more intelligent than me anyway), loves to simplify the world to make it more suitable for his Religious Right brain to handle. To him the Founders were not influenced by Grecco-Roman thinkers like Cicero or Solon the Lawgiver, they were, in fact, all disciples of Jerry Falwell's past incarnation.

This kind of myopia is dangerous to both one's walk and the body politic. Of course, the Religious Right isn't the only group to do this. Look up Liberation Theology. That's a hoot and a half.

Great comments!

Have you ever read 'jerry falwell and the history of the religious right'? I found it to be interesting.

 

[Groundzero]

I think being politically active is important, however.......

I cringe to think how many Christians believe that one party is Christian and the other one is secular.......

I have friends who are prisoners of the Republican party because of the issue of abortion - they are one-issue voters.......dangerous!

I have always believed that the Republican Party is the last party to change abortion laws....they would lose too many guaranteed votes.

All I am saying is that politics is not as cut and dry as we are led to believe.

So true! Over here in Australia, the Greens profess to be enviromentally friendly. Actually, Greens are predominantly homosexuals who are bent on legalising drug use (sic) and almost every other sin under heaven (other than murder, etc. That's just too vile!?). The Liberals are the most conservative, and probably the most un-biased, while the Labor party is committed to pleasing people by giving them free stuff and legalising whatever the majority vote wants (more like, the loudest voice!), and the Christian parties are the polar opposite of the Greens (in moral sense that is.) However, in almost every group, there are 'regenades, so to speak, people who don't fit in. People who are just there to help their country. Some parties like Labour and Liberal are formed by people with different views on how to run a country, others, such as the Greens and Christians, are moral issues. I reckon if a Christian gets into politics, forget about joining a party whose first view is morals. They might be effective, but imagine how much more effective they could be if they rose to the upper echoleons of a big party that is orientated about actually running the country. The homosexuals here in Australia didn't go and make a "Homosexual' party. They called themselves the "Greens" or joined the big parties, such as Labor and Liberal. Christians are the only people who have got together and openly stated their agenda. I think of the Scripture which states that we are to be clever like snakes. I think that it would be wiser just to join a major political party which is not built around a moral agenda (christian or environmentalist) and do what you are suppose to do: help run a country. Your light will shine, and you WILL have an effect. Not only that, you have the chance to get much further than in a small party. I think that is what Christians should be doing.

 

[[email protected]]

Oh yes. Religiously active voters and politicos are a key "platoon" (as Burke put it) in our society. Their input is needed or else they will eventually be chained by those who love power.


That said, there is a line Christians must tread while confronting different ideologies. Too often do I find Christians of all kinds appropriating ideological planks and incorporating them into their faith, or vice versa. A good friend of mine, while he is very intelligent (more intelligent than me anyway), loves to simplify the world to make it more suitable for his Religious Right brain to handle. To him the Founders were not influenced by Grecco-Roman thinkers like Cicero or Solon the Lawgiver, they were, in fact, all disciples of Jerry Falwell's past incarnation.

This kind of myopia is dangerous to both one's walk and the body politic. Of course, the Religious Right isn't the only group to do this. Look up Liberation Theology. That's a hoot and a half.

"Of course, it is possible for any citizen with time to spare, and a canny eye, to work out what is actually going on, but for the many there is not time, and the network news is the only news even though it may not be news at all but only a series of flashing fictions..."
- Gore Vidal

I agree with your statement that religious persons form a key group in political society. Why not? Every person has a particular point of political views and those who share common ideologies of necessity must band together to influence the society they live in. If they do not or if they did not, they would deserve whatever act of force or coercion the government chose to inflict upon them. As in the old proverb, you get the sort of government you deserve.

There is a lot of rhetoric opposing 'Christian' political activity these days. In point of fact, I see little if any at all. The criticism is wasted and misdirected.

Gays, for example, often hold forth with great gusto in their claims that Christians are holding them back in some way or form. This accusation is completely untrue and is used as a crutch or glue to create political cohesion in the gay special interest group. Without a scape goat, the leaders of the gay alliance would have nothing to holler about. BE IT KNOWN that the Muslim influence is growing in America as well as the rest of the world. Muslims are viciously intolerant of gays and have openly declared the punishment of death for any sodomites. Muslims are gaining ground and any political gains won by the gay crowd will be short lived. Enjoy it while you have it boys and girls.

The same is true for atheists and aggressive agnostics. Because of the Islamic influence, they will be forced to accept the religion and/or go underground with their bankrupt metaphysical philosophy.

America's Two-Party Political System - A Two-Headed Snake
- Russell Longcore

The eternal contest between Republicans and Democrats has devolved into a political circus joke. There is no longer any difference between the two.

"The sole problem of our ruling class is whether to coerce or to bribe the powerless majority."
Brooks Adams

"The corporate grip on opinion in the United States is one of the wonders of the Western world. No First World country has ever managed to eliminate so entirely from its media all objectivity - much less dissent."
Gore Vidal

The oligarchs now rule the united States, not the people and not the pseudo-political parties (D's and R's).
The Pentagon is now beyond and outside of civilian control. The nation is deeply into its militaristic fetish.

There now exists in this country an idolatry and worship of the military that is beyond normal expectancy or justice.
I say this in accusation of the churches which are wholly and completely responsible for American aggression and military barbarism as well as the debt and blood it has caused to US.
As of this writing, no amount of torture abherrent bombing of civilians and invasions is questioned by Christians. The united States now has occupation troops in 150 countries, over 900 military facilities in foreign lands, the Navy is larger than the next 17 nations COMBINED and our total armed forces is the largest on the planet (of the next 12 nations 5 are our allies). [Pentagon figures all......some critics claim numbers much larger than the ones I quote here]

"The adult members of churches today rarely raise serious religious questions for fear of revealing their doubts or being thought of as strange. There is an implicit conspiracy of silence on religious matters in the churches. This conspiracy covers up the fact that the churches do not change lives or influence conduct to any appreciable degree."
- Clyde Reid

American churches today are spiritually and morally bankrupt. The only real programs of substance involve building projects. There are mission programs, but all of them are a shadow of the total resources dedicated to building greater and greater real estate developments. Churches AS WELL AS American political parties no longer have a conscience.

The uS congress is little more than political puppets of the financial cartels. Anything the bankers want, Washington gives them. The only debate is how much and when.

Americans now live in a militaristic fascist state with NO real voice in their own government or future.

"The American people have no idea what is happening to them."
- Pravda

There is a sense throughout the land that 'someone has stolen' our country from us.
Trying to explain who took it, however, often meets with objection since the truth is a hard pill to swallow.

The only real solution at this point is secession. Disband the union and tear up the constitution (it's already an obsolete document any way).
When an athlete or team is having problems, a good coach will always take them back to basics.
When a marriage is on the rocks, a counselor will recommend going back to the beginnings - the basics of the relationship.

It's time for Americans to wake up and do the right thing to restore liberty in the land and secure it for our children.
Secession. Will it happen?

Personally I believe this to be the only viable solution. Do Americans today have the stomach for it? Sadly, I do not believe we do.

As a consequence we shall see the light of liberty diminish, wither and go silent.

To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
Ronald Reagan

Those who have known freedom and lost it have never known it again.
Ronald Reagan 01/05/67

 

[Foreigner]

I use to be a die hard Republican. I guess people like Newt Gingrich turned me away from the party. Newt Gingrich has been married three times and is a terrific cheater. Yet Charles Stanley will have him at the First Baptist church there in Atlanta and speak to the congregation. So he uses the church for his own political gain. Not that I don't vote for Republicans, I just can't associate myself as a Republican anymore.

-- I was put off by Gingrich, as well. Especially when I found out that while he was calling for Clinton's impeachment, he himself was having an affair.
There are a NUMBER of other people within the Republican party in Congress that have done much worse than that.
This list is both long and distinguished.

But that brings me to my point. It is just the same for the Democrats, as well:

- Anthony Weiner sexting and sending picture of his, well, weiner, to multiple people other than his wife. then lying to the press, his staffing and party leadership.
- John Edwards, while his wife was dying of cancer and he was running for President, fatherd a child with his mistress who - it appears - he financed with campaign funds.
- Barney Frank, whose boyfriend had run a brothel out of Franks' D.C. apartment.
- Bill Clinton, lying under oath before a grand jury, willing to let Monica Lewinsky's life be destroyed by his lies instead of telling the truth.
- Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne...

The party isn't the problem. The individuals within the party are.

I have voted across party lines on more than one occasion.
- I voted for the Independent candidate, John Anderson in my first election in 1980.
- I supported Reagan in 1984.
- I supported Clinton in '92.
- I voted for Bush in 2000 and ended up voting for him again in 2004 only because of my distaste for John Kerry. And being a combat vet myself, that was hard to do.
There were 3-4 other candidates the Dems could have run I would have gladly voted for in that election.

My point? It seems rather narrow to negate support for a specific party simply because of the untoward practices of a specific individual within that party.
One would think - if your outrage is genuine - you'd have to apply your same standard of outrage to the offenders of BOTH parties.
The only way I could see the point is if the party itself seemed to support that person's activities and continued to back him.

Gingrich is running for the Presidential nomination right now and his current support among Republicans is single digits.