Should the Bible translation be changed? (Poll)

[Jay Ross]

Even though Jacob had God's favor, it still required [blessed?] treachery to "steal" Isaac's blessing for the firstborn, Esau.

Restated using name translation,
Even though Underhanded had God's favor, it still required [blessed?] treachery to "steal" Laugher's blessing for the firstborn, Hairy.

Perhaps you may like to explain a probable cause for Esau to rush into Jacob's tent looking for an alibi and demand some food. What had Esau done that he was prepared to sell his birth right to Jacob at that time. Why did Esau retell the story to his father in a manner that twisted the actual facts as to why he had been prepared to sell his birthright, but he blamed Jacob and did not accept that he held his birthright so lightly that he was prepared to give it away so that if the occasion arouse he had an alibi to cover why he had rushed into Jacob's tent. Perhaps the Book of Jashers' account of this incident is more telling of the reasons why Esau sold his birth right so willingly.

 

[DNB]

I put the book of Genesis into chronological order around ten years ago, but the friends I gave it to found it very difficult to read as it was a verse here and a verse there and had lost its story telling structure.

One of the benefits of having put the bible verses into chronological order meant that I had to address many of the fallacies that have creep into the "acceptable" understanding of Christians where one portion of the Bible is invalidated by another because of lack of understanding of the "norms" of days gone past. One example is the forced change of the accepted year in which Abraham was born with respect to Terah because of a misunderstanding of what Stephen said in Acts 7, when he stated that Abraham left Haran after his Father had died, but the Genesis 11 account suggest that Abraham was born when Terah was 70 years old and if we look at the patriarchal chronology we will discover that it was Noah who Stephen had referred to as dying before Abraham had left Haran. Noah died when Abraham was around 59 years old, and Terah died around 60 years after Abraham had left Haran.

Another example is how old Joseph was when his brothers went down to Egypt to get grain. The traditional understanding is that he was around 38 years old, but if you consider the Book of Genesis in Chronological order, it suggests that Joseph has to have been closer to around 55 years of age so that Hezron could be born before Jacob goes down to Egypt.

But so much of our traditional understandings are based on flawed understanding that have been accepted as being true.

Shalom

THose are very good points, they expose the necessity to understand the story, in light of all the accounts that are given about it. One tends to forget certain details of the same story, when the telling of the facts are somewhat sporadic and intermittent throughout the Bible.
The NIV chronological Bible that I was referring to, does address a lot of perceived anomalies like the ones that you mentioned (not sure specifically those) . So between the historical flow of the book, plus the study notes, I find this a great tool. Highly recommended!

 

[Sabertooth]

Wrong words for you to use still. You are conveying a wrong and a different meaning than God does throughout Scripture,
no matter where you got it from, it is apparently still wrong.
i.e. your source is now underhanded.

I think that this thread shows the new can of worms that name translation would open up. You stated earlier how you would translate Jesus.

How would you translate

• Adam,
• Eve,
• Isaac,
• Rebekah,
• Esau/Edom,
• Jacob,
• Rachel,
• Moses,
• Zipporah, et al. (including place names)?

 

[Sabertooth]

Perhaps you may like to explain a probable cause for Esau to rush into Jacob's tent looking for an alibi and demand some food...

Your use of the word, "alibi," here, confuses me.

 

[Joseph77]

I think that this thread shows the new can of worms that name translation would open up. You stated earlier how you would translate Jesus.

How would you translate

• Adam,
• Eve,
• Isaac,
• Rebekah,
• Esau/Edom,
• Jacob,
• Rachel,
• Moses,
• Zipporah, et al. (including place names)?

I never posted how I would translate Jesus.

As others noted, the name "Jesus" does not mean "salvation", nor "Yahuweh's Salvation" but the Name Yahushua does.

 

[Sabertooth]

I never posted how I would translate Jesus.

From the OP,

So accordingly, Matthew 1:21 would say this: But she shall bear a son, and thou shalt call his name Eternal Savior; for he shall save his people from their sins. (the name of God is Eternal)

I thought that you were the OP, so how would you translate Jesus, too?

 

[Joseph77]

From the OP,

Now your just being distracting. Without a valid point.

 

[Sabertooth]

Now your just being distracting. Without a valid point.

Corrected.

 

[Joseph77]

k

 

[Joseph77]

I thought that you were the OP, so how would you translate Jesus, too?

Translate into what language ?

 

[Sabertooth]

Translate into what language ?

Modern English.

 

[Joseph77]

Modern English.

In modern English, Jesus is "Jesus".

 

[Sabertooth]

In modern English, Jesus is "Jesus".

That is called transliteration, not translation. Transliteration is when we speak or spell a person's original name as close as we can in our own language. Hebrew has a different alphabet and speech sounds that we do not customarily use (or train to use) in modern English.

And I agree that transliteration is less problematic than translation when it comes to Biblical names. (That is why God invented the Amplified Bible... )

 

[Sabertooth]

As others noted, the name "Jesus" does not mean "salvation", nor "Yahuweh's Salvation" but the Name Yahushua does.

"Jesus" is a transliteration (by way of New Testament Greek, Ἰησοῦς) of the attempted Hebrew, Yahushua (which is also a transliteration into the Latin alphabet).

Without transliteration, His name would be spelt [יְהוֹשׁוּעַ].

Restated,

• Jesus < [Ἰησοῦς] < [יְהוֹשׁוּעַ].
• Yahushua < [יְהוֹשׁוּעַ]

(All of these are examples of transliteration.)

 

[DNB]

It was a toss up between the Chronological Bible or the one I got, lol. I still would love a Chronological bible...one day, God willing!!! 'Oh my favorite niece, whatcha gonna get for your Auntie for Christmas '?

Hope she does!

 

[DNB]

Should all names in the Bible be translated? .

I would say no, as these titles are not definitive of their character. They have a special meaning within a context, and should only be used in that context. For they were extremely fallible and often corrupt men too. Israel was decimated by God, despite their holy appellation. Jacob/Israel was also notorious for his deceptive practices. David, being 'a man after God's own heart', was only part of the story. We wouldn't want to call him that as he's conspiring to have Urriah killed.

Abdiel – Servant of God
Abiel – God my Father
Abimael – A Father sent from God
Adbeel – Disciplined of God[2]
Adiel – Witness of God
Adirael – Magnificence of God
Adriel – Flock of God
Advachiel – Happiness of God
Ambriel – Energy of God
Ammiel – People of God
Ariel, Auriel – Lion of God
Armisael – Mountain of Judgment of God
Azael – Whom God Strengthens
Azazel – God Strengthens or Arrogant to God
Azrael – Help of God
Barakiel, Baraquiel – Lightning of God
Bethel – House of God
Boel – God is in Him
Chakel – Wisdom of God
Chamuel – He who Seeks God
Denzel – Fortress of God
Daniel – Judged by God or Judgement of God
Elad – God Forever
Eliana – My God Answers
Elijah (Elias) – Whose God is Jah, God Jah, The Strong[dubious – discuss] Jah, God of Jah, My God is Jah. Reference to the meaning of both (Eli)-(Jah)
Elisha – Salvation of God
Elishama – My God Hears
Elishua – God is my salvation
Eliezer – My God Helps
Elimelech – My God is King
Elizabeth – My God is Oath
Elkanah – God has Possessed, or God has Created
Emmanuel – God is with us
Ezekiel – God will Strengthen
Ezequeel – Strength of God
Ezrael – Help of God
Gabriel, Gavriel – Man of God, God has shown Himself Mighty, Hero of God or Strong one of God
Gaghiel – Roaring Beast of God
Gamaliel – Reward of God
Hamaliel – Grace of God
Hanael – Glory of God
Harel – “Mountain of God”
Immanuel – God with us
Imriel – Eloquence of God
Iruel – Fear of God
Ishmael, Ishamael – Heard by God, Named by God, or God Hearkens
Israel, Yisrael – Struggles with God or Prince of God
Jeremiel – God's mercy
Jezreel – God will sow
Joel – Jah is God
Jegudiel – Glorifier of God
Jophiel, Lophiel, Yofiel, Zophiel - Beauty of God
Katriel – Crown of God
Kazbiel – He who lies to God
Kushiel – Rigid One of God
Lemuel – Dedicated to God
Michael – Who is like God? a question
Mishael – Who is what God is? a question
Nathanael, Nathaniel – Given by God or God has Given or "Gift of God"
Nemuel – Day of God
Othniel – Hour of God
Peniel, Penuel, Phanuel – Face of God
Priel – Fruit of God
Rachmiel – God is my Comforter
Ramiel/Ramiel – Thunder of God
Raphael – God is Healing or Healing one of God
Reuel – Friend of God
Sachiel – Price of God or Covering of God
Salatheel – I have asked God
Sahaquiel – Ingenuity of God
Samael, Sammael – Severity of God, see also Samael (disambiguation)
Samiel – Blind God, epithet for Baal or the Demiurge
Samuel – Name/Heard of God
Tzaphquiel – Contemplation of God
Uriel – Sun of God, Light of God or Fire of God
Uzziel – Power from God
Za'afiel – Wrath of God
Zadkiel – Righteousness of God (rabbibic)
Zagzagel – Splendor of God
Zaphkiel – Knowledge of God
Zeruel – Arm of God
Zophiel – Beauty of God
Zuriel – Rock of God

 

[Sabertooth]

I would say no, as these titles are not definitive of their character. They have a special meaning within a context, and should only be used in that context.

I agree, but that is what the Hebrews heard whenever they said these names to each other.

Their conversations would have gone something like,
"Hey, Goodness-of-Yah, I'd like you to meet my sister, God-Keeps-His-Promises..."

 

[DNB]

I agree, but that is what the Hebrews heard whenever they said these names to each other.

Their conversations would have gone something like,
"Hey, Goodness-of-Yah, I'd like you to meet my sister, God-Who-Promises..."

That's true, and a good point. Although, according to @amadeus work, it appears that even the inspired authors were somewhat selective when they did use these titles. But, without doing a comprehensive research on this, I trust that even during nefarious times, certain theophories were still used?
You bring up a good point Sabertooth, you've put me on the fence a bit. But, I guess at a minimum, reading a literal translation of a name within a sentence, would become rather confusing grammatically, that i would still prefer the transliteration over the translation.

 

[Jay Ross]

Your use of the word, "alibi," here, confuses me.

"Alibi": - a claim or piece of evidence that one was elsewhere when an act, typically a criminal one, is alleged to have taken place.

I was suggesting that Esau had twisted the story of Jacob taking/stealing his birth right when he was around 16-18 years of age to suit his purposes of justifying that Jacob had supplanted him twice, by obtaining his birthright and his fathers blessing.

The scripture clearly states that Esau had no regard for his birthright, as if he had found a way to lord it over everybody another way. Esau was impatient to have what had already been Jacob's by the Lord's words to his mother, from the time of their birth.

Esau could have quietly ask for food from his brother but he demanded it and so Jacob asked for something from Esau and Esau thought so lightly of the matter that he simply throw it away as if it was of no value after all he was his father's favourite son, because his father liked to eat the wild game he hunted and feed him.

Why was this so. Why did Esau think that he was about to die? What had he done? Is there a record of what he might have done?

 

[Sabertooth]

Why did Esau think that he was about to die?

Esau was being a "drama queen."