Should the poor and sick preach?

[KingJ]

Would you ever listen to a poor pauper? Imagine listening to someone in a wheelchair share on ''by His stripes we are healed''. How embarrassing and awkward.

Let's address this subject properly. I am bumping heads with many and am wondering to myself if I am missing something.

On poverty I have been told by a seemingly well respected Christian ''KingJ Have you ever noticed how nobody pays any attention to the opinions of poor paupers?''

On Healing many seem to agree with God wanting to always heal us ''16 Powerful Scriptures On Healing For Immediate Results'' http://how-to-pray-to-god.com/scriptures-on-healing-16-powerful-healing-bible-verses-for-immediate-results/

People say it is ok to talk to God like this ''I make a demand on my joints to function perfectlly''

I think the poll will tell us a lot. I think this is Christian insanity. If anything the poor and sick who love the Lord are evidence of having true faith in Jesus.

So be honest. Will you attend a church that has a pastor in a wheelchair preaching? Will you attend a church that has a pastor who is poor preaching?

 

[mjrhealth]

Rather a poor one than one with a jet.

Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
I guess you left out. Ye - Because God will use whom He wilt.

 

[KingJ]

Rather a poor one than one with a jet.

Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
I guess you left out. Ye - Because God will use whom He wilt.

Amen. Yes I should have included that .

And this http://www.tumblingshoalsbaptist.org/827593. Baptists have it right. I wonder how many WOF members would attend such.

 

[KingJ]

Comment from my friend:

Jesus was a 'poor pauper' and many times preached to give up what you have. What is wrong with the preachers today?
- they're rich
- they're arrogant
- they are haughty.
- they're greedy
- pride

What is wrong with people that don't want to listen to 'poor pauper preachers'?
- they want to be rich
- they don't want to be humble
- they are probably haughty too.
- they're greedy
- they are too proud to be in the presence of the poor.

Why do people go to churches where the preachers are rich compared to poor? Because they want to believe that they will have those same riches. They are too greedy to believe that living with less (what God provides - ie a car (even if it's a half working opel and not a lambo) is and should be enough for us, but we always want more. Greed. The thought of people thinking less of them overtakes the desire to live God's way.

If your main desire was to be rich, what kind of church would you go to? one that preaches to leave everything you have, or one that preaches you can have anything your heart desires? The first one is what Jesus taught a church should be, the other is the devils. Covered up cleverly to imitate Christ's church. But Jesus's church gets less visitors because the people want more then they need.

 

[Deborah_]

So be honest. Will you attend a church that has a pastor in a wheelchair preaching? Will you attend a church that has a pastor who is poor preaching?

Definitely. I'd certainly think twice about attending a church whose pastor was rich.

 

[Angelina]

So be honest. Will you attend a church that has a pastor in a wheelchair preaching? Will you attend a church that has a pastor who is poor preaching?

Yes....and yes to both. We are only messengers. It is God who heals through his Spirit and it is God who provides our needs according to his awesome riches in glory...

Shalom

 

[jaybird]

i would respect and listen to a poor man long before a rich man. how much wealth and possessions did Jesus and His disciples have, many times they relied on the hospitality of others for food and lodging. did prophets like Samuel have lavish homes and sleep on beds of fine linens, rather he slept on the floor in the temple. IMO when you achieve a loving relationship with the Lord like these guys did, all the possessions of this world become trivial.

 

[jaybird]

Comment from my friend:

Jesus was a 'poor pauper' and many times preached to give up what you have. What is wrong with the preachers today?
- they're rich
- they're arrogant
- they are haughty.
- they're greedy
- pride

What is wrong with people that don't want to listen to 'poor pauper preachers'?
- they want to be rich
- they don't want to be humble
- they are probably haughty too.
- they're greedy
- they are too proud to be in the presence of the poor.

Why do people go to churches where the preachers are rich compared to poor? Because they want to believe that they will have those same riches. They are too greedy to believe that living with less (what God provides - ie a car (even if it's a half working opel and not a lambo) is and should be enough for us, but we always want more. Greed. The thought of people thinking less of them overtakes the desire to live God's way.

If your main desire was to be rich, what kind of church would you go to? one that preaches to leave everything you have, or one that preaches you can have anything your heart desires? The first one is what Jesus taught a church should be, the other is the devils. Covered up cleverly to imitate Christ's church. But Jesus's church gets less visitors because the people want more then they need.

i agree with you king. just wanted to add my own thoughts to this. many like you mention in todays world that spend most their lives wanting to be rich, wanting possessions and full of greed are beginning to realize that it only leads to wanting more of it and there is no fulfillment. until one wakes up and realizes that what they have is what they have and they should make the most of it, they will never be happy. if someone was given an hour to live, would they spend that last hour thinking of all the things they have bought over the years, i would think about my children, my parents, my family, laughter, and a big thanks to my Lord for providing these things and not charging me a dime for it. real riches!

 

[FHII]

The wealth and physical health (or lack of it) are not qualities I look for in a preacher. The qualities I look for are:

1a) is he preaching truth?
1b) is he willing to change TO the truth if he finds himself in error.
2) does he believe it?
3) does he put it in practice in his life?
4) does he expect his paritioners to follow the truth?

Pretty much in that order. That being said, I'd rather follow a rich preacher who was preaching the truth than a broke or lame preacher who was preaching false doctrine. And vice versa.

 

[iakov]

<<On poverty I have been told by a seemingly well respected Christian ''KingJ Have you ever noticed how nobody pays any attention to the opinions of poor paupers?''>>
Oh. People like Jesus who owned nothing but the clothes on His back?
How rich do you have to be to be heard? As rich as Hillary or Donald?

The only "nobodys" that don't want to hear from a pauper are the ones James told: Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you. Jas 5:1-6 (RSV)


So much form your "seemingly well respected Christian". Tell him to take a hike next time he offers free advice. It's not worth what you'll pay for it.

<< On Healing many seem to agree with God wanting to always heal us ''16 Powerful Scriptures On Healing For Immediate Results'' http://how-to-pray-to-god.com/scriptures-on-healing-16-powerful-healing-bible-verses-for-immediate-results
>>

Oh! GOODY! Another "how too" book about how to live a healthy and wealthy Christian life! (Absolutely free for a donation of $20 or more and we'll also send you a miracle healing cloth that's been baptized in the Jordan River by a real Jewish Rabbi at no extra cost. [Just pay shipping and handling.])

Is there a book on how to live a Christlike life of chastity, diligence, humility, mildness, temperance, happiness, obedience to God's will and holiness even if your not rich? Oh! Right! The BIBLE!

Has anyone read:
1Ti 6:3-8 (RSV) If any one teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching which accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
There is great gain in godliness with contentment; for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world; but if we have food and clothing, with these we shall be content.

<<Will you attend a church that has a pastor who is poor preaching?>>
Poor like Jesus? Sure. Wouldn't you?

I tend to avoid the ones with the $2000 dollar suits and the $200 haircut and the $1000 custom shoes and the Rolex and the diamond pinky ring driving a Bentley to his private jet with his trophy wife in her diamonds and furs with a tan and a boob-job on their way to their 10,000 square foot summer cottage because they're always asking for more money to expand the university they named after themselves and build a bigger prayer tower. You know, the wealthy, healthy, Christian super-stars who drive multitudes of lost sinners into hell by proclaiming an obviously false Christ and stealing their hope that God might be real and actually care about them and that Christianity isn't just be another religion con job.

(How's THAT for a run-on sentence and "Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His television show?")

iakov the fool



[SIZE=9pt]You have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day. [/SIZE]

 

[FHII]

Iakov, you are looking at the flesh. You are judging a man by his wealth and looks. You are saying you wouldn't want to follow a man based on what he has, and I'm saying folliw him based on what he says.

Is a man going to get rich preaching truth? Is a rich man capable of preaching truth? Probably not. But that is not the criterion he should be judged by.

 

[KingJ]

<<On poverty I have been told by a seemingly well respected Christian ''KingJ Have you ever noticed how nobody pays any attention to the opinions of poor paupers?''>>
Oh. People like Jesus who owned nothing but the clothes on His back?
How rich do you have to be to be heard? As rich as Hillary or Donald?

The only "nobodys" that don't want to hear from a pauper are the ones James told: Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have killed the righteous man; he does not resist you. Jas 5:1-6 (RSV)


So much form your "seemingly well respected Christian". Tell him to take a hike next time he offers free advice. It's not worth what you'll pay for it.

<< On Healing many seem to agree with God wanting to always heal us ''16 Powerful Scriptures On Healing For Immediate Results'' http://how-to-pray-to-god.com/scriptures-on-healing-16-powerful-healing-bible-verses-for-immediate-results
>>

Oh! GOODY! Another "how too" book about how to live a healthy and wealthy Christian life! (Absolutely free for a donation of $20 or more and we'll also send you a miracle healing cloth that's been baptized in the Jordan River by a real Jewish Rabbi at no extra cost. [Just pay shipping and handling.])

Is there a book on how to live a Christlike life of chastity, diligence, humility, mildness, temperance, happiness, obedience to God's will and holiness even if your not rich? Oh! Right! The BIBLE!

Has anyone read:
1Ti 6:3-8 (RSV) If any one teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching which accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.
There is great gain in godliness with contentment; for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world; but if we have food and clothing, with these we shall be content.

<<Will you attend a church that has a pastor who is poor preaching?>>
Poor like Jesus? Sure. Wouldn't you?

I tend to avoid the ones with the $2000 dollar suits and the $200 haircut and the $1000 custom shoes and the Rolex and the diamond pinky ring driving a Bentley to his private jet with his trophy wife in her diamonds and furs with a tan and a boob-job on their way to their 10,000 square foot summer cottage because they're always asking for more money to expand the university they named after themselves and build a bigger prayer tower. You know, the wealthy, healthy, Christian super-stars who drive multitudes of lost sinners into hell by proclaiming an obviously false Christ and stealing their hope that God might be real and actually care about them and that Christianity isn't just be another religion con job.

(How's THAT for a run-on sentence and "Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His television show?")

iakov the fool



[SIZE=9pt]You have chosen to subject yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. No warrantee is declared or implied. Individual mileage may vary. Enjoy the rest of your day. [/SIZE]

Well said.

 

[KingJ]

Iakov, you are looking at the flesh. You are judging a man by his wealth and looks.

True, but can we agree that modesty is Christianity 101?

I believe God does and wants to bless us abundantly, which may include finances. We honour Him when we use it modestly. We can invest and give, we don't have to buy a Ferrari. A blessing of excessive finances from God is a gift. Like all gifts we are to give Him glory with them. No prophet and no disciple ever used their gifts for their own vanity.

 

[KingJ]

Yes....and yes to both. We are only messengers. It is God who heals through his Spirit and it is God who provides our needs according to his awesome riches in glory...

Shalom

I hit my quota of 'likes' ^_^. Amen!

 

[justaname]

The top 1% richest in the world is equal to less than $40,000 American dollars per year. There are plenty of rich preachers because that is the average salary for a Protestant preacher in America. Many times a house is also provided for free lodging. If $1,000 dollars a month is added for rent money saved, that makes $52,000 per year. This means most preachers in America are rich. Yet to be in the 1% global elite this must be an after tax statistic, but compared to the majority of the world they are still financially set.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082385/We-1--You-need-34k-income-global-elite--half-worlds-richest-live-U-S.html

Rich is a relative term. Poor compared to who?

Then the question of sick. Would sin be considered an illness? Are we only looking at physical disabilities? What about the emotionally challenged? I think we are all infected in one way or another and Jesus is the cure.

Now if a man is rich and comes to the Lord, are we to discredit that? What if he honorably gains riches in the Lord? Shall we say anything different than it was the Lord that blessed him? No one can have anything unless the Lord grants it. Pilot had no authority that wasn't given to him.

If a man comes to riches in the Lord in a manner that is deplorable, firstly he will answer to the Lord for his gain. Second his actions speak against his preaching which makes the intent for his preaching questionable.

Like FHII

Biblical Truth in love is all important. Conviction to the Truth must be exemplified. Then let the lame speak, let the poor preach, allow the healthy to lead worship, and the rich exult the Christ all be it in Truth and Love.

 

[rockytopva]

The Apostle Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his often infirmities and Trophimus he left at Miletum sick.

 

[FHII]

The Apostle Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his often infirmities and Trophimus he left at Miletum sick.

Can you expound on this?

 

[FHII]

True, but can we agree that modesty is Christianity 101?

I believe God does and wants to bless us abundantly, which may include finances. We honour Him when we use it modestly. We can invest and give, we don't have to buy a Ferrari. A blessing of excessive finances from God is a gift. Like all gifts we are to give Him glory with them. No prophet and no disciple ever used their gifts for their own vanity.

Personally, I am on the side of modesty. And at my age (and financial situation) I appreciate the virtues of investing before buying luxury. Consider the ant....

David and Solomon (especially the latter) lacked nothing and had plenty left over for farraris! David was a bit different because he knew hardship.

Bottom line is I stick with what I said. A REAL man of God is always going to make sure God's House (The Church) lacks nothing and he'll do it with wisdom. Other than that.... I don't care what he drives or how big his house is. A true man of God will sell those things if the need comes up and will rejoice that he could do it.

Another way to put it.... a pastor an have, hold and use the money God blessed him with, but if he's real, he'll redirect his funds for God's purpose.

By the way, I didn't mean for this to come off harsh to anyone. I'm just saying look at the man's heart, not his health or wealth. That goes both ways.

And I agree. Most mega millionaire preachers probably don't pass the test.

 

[lforrest]

We shouldn't try to shelter the average Christian from reality. This is a symptom of Itching ear syndrome.