Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

[David in NJ]

Why are you getting hung up with solely attaching the word Elohim with just creation and even Genesis? Don't get it..The word is used throughout the OT. What is it so hard to understand?
So I have missed your real point here.

And for the blender thing...I believe you have it not I. I'm telling you about it straight on the rocks without any mixing with additives as you have attempted to do here.

lol - i'm not hung up on the word elohim - God does not approve of it being missapplied.

There is the ELOHIM FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT who created ALL Things
and then there is the 'other elohim' who are not and never were part of the Creation

don't get 'hung up' like those who twist scripture

Do you understand the Gospel of John and it's connection to Genesis???

 

[Truman]

And if you 'Crack it Open' (His Coming and Death) you have SON-E -Side UP (Resurrection)

Lol Good one, Dave!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Billy to Bible study teacher: Why did God have to send himself down to earth to become his own son to sacrifice himself just to convince himself to forgive us?

Little Billy is confused. He does not grasp the concept of God becoming a man as Jesus implied man would not ... and still doesn't:
"...Jesus Christ, who existed in the form of God,, who, as He already did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men." PHIL. 2:5-7
Hopefully, little Billy's parents can grasp this concept jn order to pass it onto their little boy.

 

[Wrangler]

I like the analogy of water.
It can exist in three distinct states at the same time: ice, fluid water, and steam.

I like how trinitarians stop at 3 to support their doctrine. There are 5 states of matter. Matter: Definition & the Five States of Matter | Live Science

There are 7 Spirits of God in Rev 1:4 but that's not 3.

 

[APAK]

lol - i'm not hung up on the word elohim - God does not approve of it being missapplied.

There is the ELOHIM FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT who created ALL Things
and then there is the 'other elohim' who are not and never were part of the Creation

don't get 'hung up' like those who twist scripture

Do you understand the Gospel of John and it's connection to Genesis???

Funny man on a very serious subject.

 

[David in NJ]

Lol Good one, Dave!

A little correction here:

1.) If you crack it open (He was bruised for our iniquities)
2.) He was scrambled eggs (His blood poured out His wounds and side - Death on the Cross)
3.) SON-E-Side UP = HIS RESURRECTION

 

[David in NJ]

I like how trinitarians stop at 3 to support their doctrine. There are 5 states of matter. Matter: Definition & the Five States of Matter | Live Science

There are 7 Spirits of God in Rev 1:4 but that's not 3.

And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. Revelation ch5

Elohim uses symbolism and numbers to reveal to us what we cannot understand, and never will, on our own.

Do you know who HS7 is???

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I like how trinitarians stop at 3 to support their doctrine. There are 5 states of matter. Matter: Definition & the Five States of Matter | Live Science

I wasn't suggesting for a minute that the three forms of the one water proves God is also three. The point is 'one' really can be 'three'....or five...or whatever. If that can be true in our limited earthly existence, how much more so in the realm of deity outside of created things.

Next time you see an earthworm I want you to stoop down and explain to it the principles of lift and bouncy (assuming you understand these verifiable truths yourself). Just because the worm has no capacity whatsoever to even remotely grasp those truths that doesn't mean they can not possibly be true. It means the earthworm is incapable of understanding it, even if you explain it to them, and they never will. That's how the Trinity is to us. Even if God explained it to us we're still not going to get it. So let us mere humans stop being so arrogant and stop telling God what can be possible about Him and what is not and just go by what he himself says about himself...

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,d” says the Lord God...the Almighty.
17 “...I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever!
Revelation 1:8-18

Just take it by faith, people.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There are 7 Spirits of God in Rev 1:4 but that's not 3.

They are also angels, not the Spirit of God:

"The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches" Revelation 1:20

“He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire.”f Hebrews 1:7

"Before the throne burned seven torches of fire. These are the seven Spiritsa of God." Revelation 4:5​

 

[Wrangler]

I wasn't suggesting for a minute that the three forms of the one water proves God is also three. The point is 'one' really can be 'three'....or five...or whatever. If that can be true in our limited earthly existence, how much more so in the realm of deity outside of created things.

Yea, OK. About 7 Spirits?

 

[Berserk]

To rephrase little Billy's question:
How is it reasonable to suppose that the suffering and death of any man, even God's sinless Son, erase my sin?
Does it not make God sadistic to believe that He need innocent blood to be persuaded not to damn me for my guilt?
How can the whole OT system of sacrifice be rationally expained as just?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yea, OK. About 7 Spirits?

↓↓↓
Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

 

[Wrangler]

↓↓↓
Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

Hmmm. Yea, let's abandon how trinitarians use things supposedly tied to 3 even when it is learned they are not tied to 3, like 5 states of matter. Mic drop.

I guess you don't want to recognize how the reality undermines the doctrine. You double down, even things that are not tied to 3 - you assert - support things tied to 3. Wow! That is commitment.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus is not even referenced in the Gospel of John until 1:14.

Well answer th equestions I asked of you! It should be easy as you seem a master of being able to define Scripture.

1. who is the Word of John 1:1-4?

John 1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

YOu have absolutely ruled out this being Jesus , so who is this Word?

also as you affirm that Jesus does not appear in the gospel of John until 1:14, who is this?

John 1:8-12
King James Version

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

YOu declare Jesus is introduced to us only in verse 14:

John 1:14
King James Version

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So according to you there are two separate entities who are called THE WORD in the gospel of John.

So who is the first word.?

also is the light spoken of in verses 8-12 the first word or another person as you say Jesus first appears in verse 14. So who is th elight?

I ask in seriousness because it is YOU and YOu alone who has said that jesus doesn't appear until verse 14! So who is the first word and who is the light?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hmmm. Yea, let's abandon how trinitarians use things supposedly tied to 3 even when it is learned they are not tied to 3, like 5 states of matter. Mic drop.

I guess you don't want to recognize how the reality undermines the doctrine. You double down, even things that are not tied to 3 - you assert - support things tied to 3. Wow! That is commitment.

Slow down and reread my post.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Elohim should not connote creation only, let alone specifically pointing to Moses being a part of it. The examples I gave are a few to demonstrate how and what the Hebrew word 'Elohim' really means, then and today; by the Hebrews then, and used today by devout Jews and a few percentage of Christians today.

Well Elohim created the universe and you reminded us that Moses was likened to Elohim for pharaoh, so I was just curious if you believed Moses took part in Creation.

The Hebrew word 'Elohim' possesses a plural intensive syntax and is singular in meaning. In Hebrew, the suffix ים (im), mainly indicates a masculine plural. However with Elohim the construction is grammatically singular, that governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the God of Israel.

No elohim is th e plural construct of eloah! (pardon my Hebrew spelling) Yes there is a majestic plural when a singular verb is used But there is much debate among Hebrew scholars who are christians over the use. Elohim is one- becomes a foolish statement grammatically if there is only one entity who is divine.

Genesis one gives us the first hint of at least another entity who is divine:

6 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Elohim said let us make man in OUR image and OUR likeness! This is not God speaking to angels for angels are not made in the image of God and they are clearly differentiated in essence from mankind.

Another OT perspective is that two Yahwehs are mentiond:

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Two Yahwehs are shown speaking.

Yahweh one- the King of Israel.
Yahweh two- Yahweh of hosts.

We also know Yahweh said He would never share His glory with anyone in the OT and yet we see Jesus sharing in the glory of Yahweh!

the of course the NT is definitive in declaring Jesus equally divine as His Father though inferior in position of exaltation to HIs Father.

 

[BarneyFife]

If Jesus were God, who raised him from the dead?

John 10:17 The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again.
John 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father."

 

[BarneyFife]

Billy to Bible study teacher: Why did God have to send himself down to earth to become his own son to sacrifice himself just to convince himself to forgive us?

Why do you have to saturate/spam the forum with threads decrying the belief in the deity of Christ?

 

[BarneyFife]

The Redeemer did not have to be God to pay it....all he needed to be was sinless.

He might also have needed to possess life unborrowed.

 

[Wrangler]

Well answer th equestions I asked of you! It should be easy as you seem a master of being able to define Scripture.

I JUST answered it in post #190.