Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

[Anastasios UK]

Hi fellow Christians,
I'm new here -
I've always had questions surrounding the book of Revelation, and I recently came across this online Bible seminar on the book of Revelation - which is doing a series from chapters 1-22. Some of the points challenged my understanding and what I previously thought to be true, though all of it is biblical and backed up by scripture.

Would love to hear your thoughts on their teachings, and also if you have any other recommendations when looking to understand the book or Revelation

Kind regards

 

[bbyrd009]

ever notice that newbies are drawn to the Rev like moths to a flame? lol

Are you reading right over those words without understanding anything?
It wasn't the sacrifices per se that God was detesting but the circumstances under which they offered them. He hated their hypocrisy...read the whole chapters of the verses you quoted and see.

imo anyone who thinks they can cause harm to another and not confess it aloud, and then go and kill some animal as a “sacrifice to God” to make things right, would be a raging hypocrite

Esau despised his birthright and sold it for a bowl of stew.....the red there was probably red lentil stew

ok, so go with that then, at least we are talking about it, and surely you already know how Scriptural stories change as we change

Nothing but a brute of a man wanting a mouthful of stew because he was famished...."gave up his rights as firstborn in exchange for one meal."

mom lived right across the field eh—or more likely in the same compound—he couldnt make it there, rather than eat at his rival’s house? And whats with Jacob supposedly inheriting, but Esau is the one who stays anyway, Jacob gotta run? And other elements in this perfect story, that lays everything out, even down to Edom’s demise, for not allowing Israel to pass through.

Also, names had meaning then, unlike today, and we completely disregard the meanings of the names now, but they are central to most any tale being told imo, so ill link the Jacob and Esau etymologies here, but the location name ety should also be read imo
The amazing name Esau: meaning and etymology
The amazing name Edom: meaning and etymology
The amazing name Jacob: meaning and etymology
also notice that Jacob never ate, only Esau, and i guess i could point out about 100 other inconsistencies with the interpretation of the story we currently have

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No it does not. There is more scripture that proves that the trinity is a false teaching than the obscure verses that seem to establish it.....into these verses it is woven, grafted, implied.....but not ever specifically stated.

Well the bible calls three entities God specifically and unequivocally. The Father, The Son, and the Holy spirit. IN describing god in the OT plural nouns were used; Elohim and Adonai! When Elohim made man- Elohim said let us make man in our image. And then it says man was made in the image of Elohim. Even the Shema shows the godhead is more than one entity:

Deuteronomy 6:4
King James Version

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Jehovah our Elohim (plural) is one (echad) Jehovah! echad is the word for one when Israel also wanted to speak of a plural one or compound one!

Then of course we have JOhn 1:1 where Jesus is with God and Jesus is God!
And in Deut. 44:6 we have two entities called Jehovah and 2 first and lasts (Father and son)

 

[Wrangler]

Well the bible calls three entities God specifically and unequivocally. The Father, The Son, and the Holy spirit

Except it's not true at all. You call figurative John 1:1 a specific verse. That's how weak your Scriptural position is.

By contrast here is a specific verse that States only the Father is God. 'God, the Father of our Lord Jesus.' Ephesians 1:3

 

[APAK]

Well the bible calls three entities God specifically and unequivocally. The Father, The Son, and the Holy spirit. IN describing god in the OT plural nouns were used; Elohim and Adonai! When Elohim made man- Elohim said let us make man in our image. And then it says man was made in the image of Elohim. Even the Shema shows the godhead is more than one entity:

Deuteronomy 6:4
King James Version

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Jehovah our Elohim (plural) is one (echad) Jehovah! echad is the word for one when Israel also wanted to speak of a plural one or compound one!

Then of course we have JOhn 1:1 where Jesus is with God and Jesus is God!
And in Deut. 44:6 we have two entities called Jehovah and 2 first and lasts (Father and son)

Trying in earnest to hijack and reinterpret the meaning of scripture again to your pagan trinity belief as in Deut 6:4 and John 1:1? You know you are not practicing monotheism as the Hebrews and a small minority of Christians?

You know if you knew a little of the Hebrew language and monotheism you would never say that there are 3 entities (the Father, Son and the (Father's) Spirit embedded in the Hebrew word Elohim.

Elohim means emphatic plural or plural of Majesty and Adonai is not the same meaning. It is plural for Lord of Lords, or Lord, Lord, Lord!

So he's a riddle for you, why is Moses called Elohim on a few occasions in scripture?

The Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made thee a god אֶלהִים, (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”
(Exodus 7:1 KJV)

and again in “And he shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be as your mouth, while you shall be to him as a god אֶלהִים, (Elohim)(God)” (Exod.4:16).

Moses is compared as God (the Father) and Aaron is the mouth piece (as the Son) of Moses a Elohim....(like Christ of Elohim, his Father) (Exodus 4:16)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Except it's not true at all. You call figurative John 1:1 a specific verse. That's how weak your Scriptural position is.

By contrast here is a specific verse that States only the Father is God. 'God, the Father of our Lord Jesus.' Ephesians 1:3

Now prove biblically that john 1:1 is not to be understood as written but reinterpreted by you!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Trying in earnest to hijack and reinterpret the meaning of scripture again to your pagan trinity belief as in Deut 6:4 and John 1:1? You know you are not practicing monotheism as the Hebrews and a small minority of Christians?

You know if you knew a little of the Hebrew language and monotheism you would never say that there are 3 entities (the Father, Son and the (Father's) Spirit embedded in the Hebrew word Elohim.

Elohim means emphatic plural or plural of Majesty and Adonai is not the same meaning. It is plural for Lord of Lords, or Lord, Lord, Lord!

So he's a riddle for you, why is Moses called Elohim on a few occasions in scripture?

The Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made thee a god אֶלהִים, (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”
(Exodus 7:1 KJV)

and again in “And he shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be as your mouth, while you shall be to him as a god אֶלהִים, (Elohim)(God)” (Exod.4:16).

Moses is compared as God (the Father) and Aaron is the mouth piece (as the Son) of Moses a Elohim....(like Christ of Elohim, his Father) (Exodus 4:16)

So you believe Moses helped in creation then? Or is God using comparative language ? What say you!

 

[Wrangler]

Now prove biblically that john 1:1 is not to be understood as written but reinterpreted by you!

The proof is John 1:1 does not even mention Jesus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The proof is John 1:1 does not even mention Jesus.

So then who is th eword made flesh and dwelt among us? Is that another word from heaven? Who is th eword of John 1:1 as compared to teh word in John 1:

John 1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


We know that this "Word is a person". The bible says so !

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Do you think Jesus is th eWord in verse 14?

Then who is the other
word who created all things in verses 1-3????????????????????????????

 

[Wrangler]

So then who is th eword made flesh

I think I've answered this question from you more than a dozen times ...Words are WHAT's not WHO's. The word of God is an attribute of God, just like the word of the President is an attribute of the President.

Rather than try to force an interpretation onto the text, you need to look at it in context.

1. The entirety of the Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day.
2. Deuteronomy 18:15-18 is fulfilled in Jesus, as the man God chose to put his words into Jesus' mouth.
3. Jesus says he only says what God tells him to say.
4. Jesus is not even referenced in the Gospel of John until 1:14.
5. The summary of John's Gospel destroys trinitarianism at 1:18 for it reveals a duo not a trio.
6. Finally, John explicitly states @ 20:31 that his entire Gospel was to prove something other than you are trying to use it to prove.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well the bible calls three entities God specifically and unequivocally. The Father, The Son, and the Holy spirit. IN describing god in the OT plural nouns were used; Elohim and Adonai! When Elohim made man- Elohim said let us make man in our image. And then it says man was made in the image of Elohim. Even the Shema shows the godhead is more than one entity:

Deuteronomy 6:4
King James Version

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Jehovah our Elohim (plural) is one (echad) Jehovah! echad is the word for one when Israel also wanted to speak of a plural one or compound one!

Then of course we have JOhn 1:1 where Jesus is with God and Jesus is God!
And in Deut. 44:6 we have two entities called Jehovah and 2 first and lasts (Father and son)

It is a well known fact that Judaism is a monolithic religion. One being, not three. The three aspect thing is Pagan.
Christianity has three named Gods
If you called upon the two other Gods in the Old Testament, they would have killed you. Why do you think that Christ had to be so careful about who knew He was the Son of God in the New Testament. LOL

There is no interaction between Father and Son like in the New Testament....LOL Do you believe He was a Son in the Old Testament?

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,
Isaiah 45:5

There is no one holy like the Lord, Indeed, there is no one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God. 1st Samuel 2:2

O Lord, the God of Israel, there is no God like You in heaven above or on earth beneath... 1st Kings 8:23

For this reason You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides... 2nd Samuel 7:22

Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Isaiah 46:9

O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears. 1st Chronicles 17:20

No scripture in the Old Testament that says, I am three but one and no one like us! How! Ke-mo sah-bee i

 

[APAK]

So you believe Moses helped in creation then? Or is God using comparative language ? What say you!

Elohim should not connote creation only, let alone specifically pointing to Moses being a part of it. The examples I gave are a few to demonstrate how and what the Hebrew word 'Elohim' really means, then and today; by the Hebrews then, and used today by devout Jews and a few percentage of Christians today.

They can be of God Almighty with those representing this role in people, doing God's work. And maybe surprising to you, Elohim can also represent pagan divinities!

The Hebrew word 'Elohim' possesses a plural intensive syntax and is singular in meaning. In Hebrew, the suffix ים (im), mainly indicates a masculine plural. However with Elohim the construction is grammatically singular, that governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the God of Israel.

However, a grammatically plural Elohim that takes on a plural verb or adjective is used exclusively for pagan divinities (examples: Psalms 96:5; 97:7).

Pagan divinities therefore can also be called Elohim, although they never connect Elohim (plural) with a singular verb pronoun or modifier or adjective, only plural ones.

 

[David in NJ]

Billy to Bible study teacher: Why did God have to send himself down to earth to become his own son to sacrifice himself just to convince himself to forgive us?

This is a easy one - you don't know???

 

[David in NJ]

Elohim should not connote creation only, let alone specifically pointing to Moses being a part of it. The examples I gave are a few to demonstrate how and what the Hebrew word 'Elohim' really means, then and today; by the Hebrews then, and used today by devout Jews and a few percentage of Christians today.

They can be of God Almighty with those representing this role in people, doing God's work. And maybe surprising to you, Elohim can also represent pagan divinities!

The Hebrew word 'Elohim' possesses a plural intensive syntax and is singular in meaning. In Hebrew, the suffix ים (im), mainly indicates a masculine plural. However with Elohim the construction is grammatically singular, that governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the God of Israel.

However, a grammatically plural Elohim that takes on a plural verb or adjective is used exclusively for pagan divinities (examples: Psalms 96:5; 97:7).

Pagan divinities therefore can also be called Elohim, although they never connect Elohim (plural) with a singular verb pronoun or modifier or adjective, only plural ones.

i see you have a religion blender - mixes things up very well

Elohim is used for a specific purpose in Genesis to introduce us to the plurality of Himself in THREE Persons.

When elohim is used in scripture to speak of "other gods" - it is not referring back to the Elohim of Genesis, who created all things.

Elohim Avraham Elohim Yitzach and Elohim Yaakov are the Echad Elohim

 

[Truman]

Who makes a video with a mask on??? SMH, gimme a break! You gotta be joking. That's it, I knew it! Aliens kidnapped me and I'm on Doppelganger's sister planet, Stupido! I-Yi-Yi!

 

[David in NJ]

Who makes a video with a mask on??? SMH, gimme a break! You gotta be joking. That's it, I knew it! Aliens kidnapped me and I'm on Doppelganger's sister planet, Stupido! I-Yi-Yi!

thank you for the free laughter this morning

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Three reason the number is three is because there are three individual attributes of God in the Bible

I like the analogy of water.
It can exist in three distinct states at the same time: ice, fluid water, and steam.

 

[Truman]

I like the analogy of water.
It can exist in three distinct states at the same time: ice, fluid water, and steam.

Or like an egg...yoke, white, and shell! Apart, they're three, together, they're One!

 

[APAK]

i see you have a religion blender - mixes things up very well

Elohim is used for a specific purpose in Genesis to introduce us to the plurality of Himself in THREE Persons.

When elohim is used in scripture to speak of "other gods" - it is not referring back to the Elohim of Genesis, who created all things.

Elohim Avraham Elohim Yitzach and Elohim Yaakov are the Echad Elohim

Why are you getting hung up with solely attaching the word Elohim with just creation and even Genesis? Don't get it..The word is used throughout the OT. What is it so hard to understand?
So I have missed your real point here.

And for the blender thing...I believe you have it not I. I'm telling you about it straight on the rocks without any mixing with additives as you have attempted to do here.

 

[David in NJ]

Or like an egg...yoke, white, and shell! Apart, they're three, together, they're One!

And if you 'Crack it Open' (His Coming and Death) you have SON-E -Side UP (Resurrection)