Silly question, but a thought provoking one:

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ
I had already written out another lengthy line by line response to you post #585, but I deleted most of it leaving only the following verse penned by Apostle Paul:

"For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise" II Cor 10:12

If either of us are changed with regard to this discussion and it is an increase it is God's doing. Give God the glory!
See you around the forum!

I challenge you to go find, in my posts where i commend myself and measure myself by myself.
The Measurement is Christ, not us, as in all my posts i elevate Christ and His words.
So you have decided to join in with falsely accusing me - go for it.

Maybe, before this you should come forward with 'evidence' of such as you accuse.
Jane_Doe who i never conversed with nor even know started the assault because her feelings were hurt by the word 'cult' which was not addressed to her or anyone other then where it belongs.

So now my friend, bring forth your evidence of what you accuse = bring forth "my measuring myself by myself".

 

[David in NJ]

Noting by what you write, that you are dwelling on the past. God is today and yesterday.

No one gagged God" - who said they did???- or are you thinking that the Father has more that was said?
Oh absolutely more to say....He did not go silent. Why would He?
Was there more information to come?....I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. John 16:12 Many more things! For several reasons it should not be too surprising that Christ continued to speak to Man past the biblical era. Christ's Words are important even if they are outside the Bible. The NT is the Gospel message...the Good News....we have come to consider them as scriptures but the Apostles never indicated that they were writing scriptures. A lot of Paul's writings were one sided communications to churches and you have to take that into consideration. But elevating any writings or scripture above God is a mistake. If God speaks it is important and stands above what we have on ink and paper.

That might be through the Holy Spirit....after the biblical era, did the Holy Spirit teach us...
That Polygamy and concubinage was wrong
That Christianity would have to defend itself
That we needed to build Christian churches
That the prohibition of engraved images do not apply to Christians....the symbols and pictures on this forum...pictures...television ....statues etc
That women should have the right to pick their husbands
That we do not purchase our wives
That all disease are not from demons
That when we marry, we should have a religious wedding and vows
That there should be a country that defends religious freedom
That slavery was wrong
That women should be equal in the church and society

This was not taught to us in the Bible. Because it was not, should we go back to polygamies marriages, slavery, an no need for weddings. Christians continued to learn morals and get messages that were not in the Bible.

I am talking Scripture, not discovery of the Creation and the damages of Creation by satan and sin.
When God first created - HE said "It is Good" and It was GOOD.
Death, sickness and disease entered the world thru satan by sin.
Origins are important when understanding why things are the way they are.
God created man to live a healthy vibrant life without death - Death entered thru sin and Christ came to conquer sin for us.
Slavery came into the world, not through the Bible, but thru satan and sin.

Do you know what the LORD said in Revelation concerning His creation???
Do you know that creation has been in tribulation and travail since satan brought man under his power through sin?
Do you know what God Himself has planned for the future healing of the creation?

You are missing out on SomeOne with whom the Father delights to give to His Children - Read and Pray the Gospel of John.

 

[amadeus]

I challenge you to go find, in my posts where i commend myself and measure myself by myself.
The Measurement is Christ, not us, as in all my posts i elevate Christ and His words.
So you have decided to join in with falsely accusing me - go for it.

Maybe, before this you should come forward with 'evidence' of such as you accuse.
Jane_Doe who i never conversed with nor even know started the assault because her feelings were hurt by the word 'cult' which was not addressed to her or anyone other then where it belongs.

So now my friend, bring forth your evidence of what you accuse = bring forth "my measuring myself by myself".

So defensive...I was hoping you would let it lie.

You must be right and I must be wrong. That is apparently set in your mind so run with it. Call that a win for you if you want...

 

[David in NJ]

So defensive...I was hoping you would let it lie.

You must be right and I must be wrong. That is apparently set in your mind so run with it. Call that a win for you if you want...

i do not like being falsely accused - do you?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I challenge you to go find, in my posts where i commend myself and measure myself by myself.
The Measurement is Christ, not us, as in all my posts i elevate Christ and His words.
So you have decided to join in with falsely accusing me - go for it.

Maybe, before this you should come forward with 'evidence' of such as you accuse.
Jane_Doe who i never conversed with nor even know started the assault because her feelings were hurt by the word 'cult' which was not addressed to her or anyone other then where it belongs.

So now my friend, bring forth your evidence of what you accuse = bring forth "my measuring myself by myself".

David, when you mock “Mormon” beliefs, or say “Mormons are cultists “, such is done against me (a “Mormon”).

 

[David in NJ]

David, when you mock “Mormon” beliefs, or say “Mormons are cultists “, such is done against me (a “Mormon”).

The Mormon teachings may indeed be false teachings. The only way to know this would be to compare these teachings with Scripture.
- but can you please find the post # for me - Thank You

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Mormon teachings may indeed be false teachings. The only way to know this would be to compare these teachings with Scripture.
- but can you please find the post # for me - Thank You

Searching past posts on my phone doesn’t really work, unfortunately.

I know many different Christians whom has what I find to be downright anti-scriptural beliefs. That doesn’t make them a “cultist “, it makes them sinners whom fall short of the glory of God. We all have much yet to learn.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Besides so he could be the 'life for life' required by the law, he took humanity upon himself to become a compassionate High Priest...

...He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people. Because He Himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted." Hebrews 2:17-18​

I agree with @Helen, that's just nonsense.

The scriptures never call the Apostles and disciples of Jesus, God's brothers. The scriptures call the Apostles and disciples of Jesus, God's sons. The Apostles and disciples of Jesus, Jesus being the Only Begotten Son of God are called the Only Begotten Son of God's brothers. So just as the Only Begotten Son of God is called a son of God of the True God, the Only Begotten Son of God's Apostles and disciples who are the anointed of God are sons of the True God. It's the Only Begotten Son of the True God who is made a high priest not God. The Only Begotten Son of God is a High Priest who stands between God and mankind. The Only Begotten Son of God is the door to God. God isn't the High Priest or the door, the Only Begotten Son of the True God who's name is Jesus Christ is.

 

[David in NJ]

Searching past posts on my phone doesn’t really work, unfortunately.

I know many different Christians whom has what I find to be downright anti-scriptural beliefs. That doesn’t make them a “cultist “, it makes them sinners whom fall short of the glory of God. We all have much yet to learn.

take your time - it does not have to be today - and remember that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins and no one else.

You said "he is the center of your life" well let His Spirit give you peace now for if you are in Him then He loves you and you have nothing to fear.

"Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit."
AMEN

 

[Jane_Doe22]

take your time - it does not have to be today - and remember that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins and no one else.

You said "he is the center of your life" well let His Spirit give you peace now for if you are in Him then He loves you and you have nothing to fear.

"Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit."
AMEN

Nothing feared here

I’m also very pro treating people with love and encouraging them to come to Christ. Versus attacking other. But I’m sure that’s been conveyed

 

[Grailhunter]

Slavery came into the world, not through the Bible, but thru satan and sin.

I am going to tell you the same thing I tell everyone else. There is a lot of misconceptions and assumptions running around in people's heads. A lot of it is in the understanding of the Old Testament. The Old Testament does not identify Satan as the tempter in Eden. The Old Testament does not identify Satan as a devil, nor anything that happens is contributed to a devil. The Hebrews / Israelites / Jews in the Old Testament did not have a devil in their religious beliefs and they still do not have a devil in their religious beliefs today. God did not warn anyone that Satan might tempt them. Any reference to tempting is either God tempting people or people are tempting God to anger.

God did not offer Heaven as a reward or threaten anyone with Hell in the Old Testament.
The Hebrews / Israelites / Jews did not have beliefs regarding Hell in the Old Testament and still do not have beliefs regarding Hell.
The Hebrews / Israelites / Jews did not believe that Heaven would be a place they could go to.
Salvation was not an option in the Old Testament.

Do you know what the LORD said in Revelation concerning His creation???

His creation or the creation of Heaven and earth?

Do you know that creation has been in tribulation and travail since satan brought man under his power through sin?

Again Satan is not connected to sin in the Old Testament.
In the Old Testament Satan went to Yahweh, and Yehweh brought up the topic of Job's righteousness. And they decided to test him.
Now the Old Testament does identify sin as a thinking being and offers some good information.... If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it Genesis 4:7 Was this because Mesopotamia had a Pagan god named Sin? Who knows.

Do you know what God Himself has planned for the future healing of the creation?

down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:2 ?

Love the Gospel of John. I Study and pray on the whole Bible.

 

[David in NJ]

I am going to tell you the same thing I tell everyone else. There is a lot of misconceptions and assumptions running around in people's heads. A lot of it is in the understanding of the Old Testament. The Old Testament does not identify Satan as the tempter in Eden. The Old Testament does not identify Satan as a devil, nor anything that happens is contributed to a devil. The Hebrews / Israelites / Jews in the Old Testament did not have a devil in their religious beliefs and they still do not have a devil in their religious beliefs today. God did not warn anyone that Satan might tempt them. Any reference to tempting is either God tempting people or people are tempting God to anger.

God did not offer Heaven as a reward or threaten anyone with Hell in the Old Testament.
The Hebrews / Israelites / Jews did not have beliefs regarding Hell in the Old Testament and still do not have beliefs regarding Hell.
The Hebrews / Israelites / Jews did not believe that Heaven would be a place they could go to.
Salvation was not an option in the Old Testament.

His creation or the creation of Heaven and earth?

Again Satan is not connected to sin in the Old Testament.
In the Old Testament Satan went to Yahweh, and Yehweh brought up the topic of Job's righteousness. And they decided to test him.
Now the Old Testament does identify sin as a thinking being and offers some good information.... If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it Genesis 4:7 Was this because Mesopotamia had a Pagan god named Sin? Who knows.

down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. Revelation 22:2 ?
Love the Gospel of John. I Study and pray on the whole Bible.

Well i will just cover one point for now as it is important for you to know = Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:1-2

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain.
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ - 2 Corinthians 11:3

Believe in the Truth of the LORD dear friend - HE never spoke a lie and never will - AMEN

 

[Truth7t7]

That is your unfounded opinion. The insult is to their identifying as Christians.

How about someone says that you serve another Jesus, the spirit brother of Lucifer? How does that shoe fit?

Hateful is as hateful does and is not from the Spirit of God. Check you moral & theological superiority at the door. Obviously, I threw pearls before swine in mentioning to you James 4:11-12.

Learntheology.com

Mormonism and Lucifer – Jesus’ Brother?

The LDS Position
The differences between Christianity and Mormonism are quite significant. Mormons believe Lucifer to be a “son of God” In the same way that Jesus is a “son of God”—indeed, in the same way that we are all sons or daughters of Heavenly Father (see also Law of Eternal Progression).

This means that the Mormon Lucifer, like all of us, was born to the LDS god and one of his goddess wives on the planet near the great star, Kolob. Thus, there is no essential difference between Jesus and Lucifer. There is only an accidental difference: Lucifer went wrong.

McConkie explains Satan’s initial sin in this way:

When the plan of salvation was presented [to the Council of the Gods] and when the need for a Redeemer was explained, Satan offered to come into the world as the Son of God and be the Redeemer. “Behold, here am 1, send me,” he said. “I will be thy son.” But then, as always, he was in opposition to the full plan of the Father, and so he sought to amend and change the terms of salvation; he sought to deny men their agency [free will] and to dethrone God. “I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor,” he continued (Moses 4:1–4; Mormon Doctrine, p. 193).

When Lucifer’s plan was voted down by the council, he rebelled and managed to convince a third of the preexistent spirit children of Heavenly Father to rebel. Lucifer and his spirit partisans were cast out of the presence of the gods and forever denied physical bodies. Thus Satan was and always will be “only” a spirit being.

In Mormonism this contrasts to Heavenly Father, who has a glorified physical body of parts and passions. The LDS church believes it is an error of the apostate church to teach that God is a purely spiritual being. Thus, it can truthfully be said (as Brigham Young observed) that there seems to be a great deal of resemblance between the Christian God and the LDS version of Satan:

Their [Christian] belief reminds me that brother Joseph P. Nobles once told a Methodist priest [sic] after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshipped was the “Mormons” Devil—a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts, and passions. The Devil was cursed and sent down from heaven. He has no body of his own Journal of Discourses 5:331, October 7, 1857).

Additionally, Lucifer is presented, strangely, in the secret temple endowment ceremony as a teacher and conveyer of important wisdom. The LDS theology of the fall of man denies that Adam sinned (see Fall of Adam). Thus, Lucifer’s part in the eating of the fruit of the tree is oddly positive, especially as portrayed in the temple rite. At first, he teaches correct LDS doctrine to Adam and Eve, and then after the fall he sarcastically teaches Christian orthodoxy through his preacher lackey—at least until the temple rites were changed (see Temples, Changes to the Ritual).

Thus there is a strange ambivalence in Mormonism about Satan. On one hand he is the rebel and the tempter, but on the other hand he is the one who helped Eve understand the gospel plan. He also instructs the temple patrons in the wearing of the apron which is the symbol of his “power and priesthoods” (Chuck Sackett, What’s Going On in There? pp. 28–29)—aprons which temple Mormons wear in the temple for the rest of their lives. They are even buried in that apron!

Satan is presented to faithful Latter-day Saints in the Book of Mormon as a wily deceiver who “cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. And behold, others he flattereth away and telleth them there is no hell—even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment” (2 Nephi 28:21–23)

Yet he is also the only person in the Bible who taught (through the serpent) the LDS law of eternal progression, that “ye shall be as gods” (Genesis 3:5). It is even more strange because LDS doctrine teaches the very same thing Lucifer is credited with teaching in 2 Nephi 28:23—that there is no eternal hell (Doctrine, pp. 349–50).

Is it any wonder that many Mormons do not know precisely what to make of Lucifer?

 

[Wrangler]

Mormons teach that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.

This is your rationalization for concluding the Mormons worship Lucifer? Absurd.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

4Witness.org

Mormons teach that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer. They believe that the spirits of Jesus and Lucifer were first born to Heavenly Father in heaven that Mormons call the pre-existence. According to Mormon Scripture, Jesus was the first one born and Lucifer was the second one and then all the other spirits of humans and angels were born. (See “How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?,” Ensign, June 1986.)

Not only do Mormons teach that Jesus and Satan are brothers, they teach that there was a contest between Jesus and Lucifer over who would become Savior of the world. According to Mormonism, God chose Jesus’ plan over Lucifer’s plan and as a result Lucifer became angry and fell, and took a third of the spirit children with him, becoming Satan and the demons. (See “Chapter 3: Jesus Christ, Our Chosen Leader and Savior,” in Gospel Principles.)

Mormons frequently get upset whenever they hear someone doubting whether Mormonism is Christian. What they don’t realize is that the Jesus that the Mormon Church teaches is completely different from the Jesus of the Bible.

In the Bible, the difference between Jesus and Lucifer is the difference between Creator and Creation. Jesus is the creator of “all things” (Colossians 1:15-18) and as such, He is Lucifer’s Creator. Being fully God, the Creator as the Bible teaches in John 1:1-3, and therefore Jesus created Lucifer and never competed with him for the position of Savior of the World.

The Apostle Paul warned in the Bible against following those who “preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached.” (2 Corinthians 11:4) By misrepresenting the nature of Christ, Mormonism distorts the gospel and cannot be considered Christian.

^Lovely strawman.

 

[Truth7t7]

^Lovely strawman.

Learntheology.com

Mormonism and Lucifer – Jesus’ Brother?

The LDS Position
The differences between Christianity and Mormonism are quite significant. Mormons believe Lucifer to be a “son of God” In the same way that Jesus is a “son of God”—indeed, in the same way that we are all sons or daughters of Heavenly Father (see also Law of Eternal Progression).

This means that the Mormon Lucifer, like all of us, was born to the LDS god and one of his goddess wives on the planet near the great star, Kolob. Thus, there is no essential difference between Jesus and Lucifer. There is only an accidental difference: Lucifer went wrong.

McConkie explains Satan’s initial sin in this way:

When the plan of salvation was presented [to the Council of the Gods] and when the need for a Redeemer was explained, Satan offered to come into the world as the Son of God and be the Redeemer. “Behold, here am 1, send me,” he said. “I will be thy son.” But then, as always, he was in opposition to the full plan of the Father, and so he sought to amend and change the terms of salvation; he sought to deny men their agency [free will] and to dethrone God. “I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor,” he continued (Moses 4:1–4; Mormon Doctrine, p. 193).

When Lucifer’s plan was voted down by the council, he rebelled and managed to convince a third of the preexistent spirit children of Heavenly Father to rebel. Lucifer and his spirit partisans were cast out of the presence of the gods and forever denied physical bodies. Thus Satan was and always will be “only” a spirit being.

In Mormonism this contrasts to Heavenly Father, who has a glorified physical body of parts and passions. The LDS church believes it is an error of the apostate church to teach that God is a purely spiritual being. Thus, it can truthfully be said (as Brigham Young observed) that there seems to be a great deal of resemblance between the Christian God and the LDS version of Satan:

Their [Christian] belief reminds me that brother Joseph P. Nobles once told a Methodist priest [sic] after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshipped was the “Mormons” Devil—a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts, and passions. The Devil was cursed and sent down from heaven. He has no body of his own Journal of Discourses 5:331, October 7, 1857).

Additionally, Lucifer is presented, strangely, in the secret temple endowment ceremony as a teacher and conveyer of important wisdom. The LDS theology of the fall of man denies that Adam sinned (see Fall of Adam). Thus, Lucifer’s part in the eating of the fruit of the tree is oddly positive, especially as portrayed in the temple rite. At first, he teaches correct LDS doctrine to Adam and Eve, and then after the fall he sarcastically teaches Christian orthodoxy through his preacher lackey—at least until the temple rites were changed (see Temples, Changes to the Ritual).

Thus there is a strange ambivalence in Mormonism about Satan. On one hand he is the rebel and the tempter, but on the other hand he is the one who helped Eve understand the gospel plan. He also instructs the temple patrons in the wearing of the apron which is the symbol of his “power and priesthoods” (Chuck Sackett, What’s Going On in There? pp. 28–29)—aprons which temple Mormons wear in the temple for the rest of their lives. They are even buried in that apron!

Satan is presented to faithful Latter-day Saints in the Book of Mormon as a wily deceiver who “cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. And behold, others he flattereth away and telleth them there is no hell—even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment” (2 Nephi 28:21–23)

Yet he is also the only person in the Bible who taught (through the serpent) the LDS law of eternal progression, that “ye shall be as gods” (Genesis 3:5). It is even more strange because LDS doctrine teaches the very same thing Lucifer is credited with teaching in 2 Nephi 28:23—that there is no eternal hell (Doctrine, pp. 349–50).

Is it any wonder that many Mormons do not know precisely what to make of Lucifer?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Learntheology.com

Mormonism and Lucifer – Jesus’ Brother?

The LDS Position
The differences between Christianity and Mormonism are quite significant. Mormons believe Lucifer to be a “son of God” In the same way that Jesus is a “son of God”—indeed, in the same way that we are all sons or daughters of Heavenly Father (see also Law of Eternal Progression).

This means that the Mormon Lucifer, like all of us, was born to the LDS god and one of his goddess wives on the planet near the great star, Kolob. Thus, there is no essential difference between Jesus and Lucifer. There is only an accidental difference: Lucifer went wrong.

McConkie explains Satan’s initial sin in this way:

When the plan of salvation was presented [to the Council of the Gods] and when the need for a Redeemer was explained, Satan offered to come into the world as the Son of God and be the Redeemer. “Behold, here am 1, send me,” he said. “I will be thy son.” But then, as always, he was in opposition to the full plan of the Father, and so he sought to amend and change the terms of salvation; he sought to deny men their agency [free will] and to dethrone God. “I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor,” he continued (Moses 4:1–4; Mormon Doctrine, p. 193).

When Lucifer’s plan was voted down by the council, he rebelled and managed to convince a third of the preexistent spirit children of Heavenly Father to rebel. Lucifer and his spirit partisans were cast out of the presence of the gods and forever denied physical bodies. Thus Satan was and always will be “only” a spirit being.

In Mormonism this contrasts to Heavenly Father, who has a glorified physical body of parts and passions. The LDS church believes it is an error of the apostate church to teach that God is a purely spiritual being. Thus, it can truthfully be said (as Brigham Young observed) that there seems to be a great deal of resemblance between the Christian God and the LDS version of Satan:

Their [Christian] belief reminds me that brother Joseph P. Nobles once told a Methodist priest [sic] after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshipped was the “Mormons” Devil—a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts, and passions. The Devil was cursed and sent down from heaven. He has no body of his own Journal of Discourses 5:331, October 7, 1857).

Additionally, Lucifer is presented, strangely, in the secret temple endowment ceremony as a teacher and conveyer of important wisdom. The LDS theology of the fall of man denies that Adam sinned (see Fall of Adam). Thus, Lucifer’s part in the eating of the fruit of the tree is oddly positive, especially as portrayed in the temple rite. At first, he teaches correct LDS doctrine to Adam and Eve, and then after the fall he sarcastically teaches Christian orthodoxy through his preacher lackey—at least until the temple rites were changed (see Temples, Changes to the Ritual).

Thus there is a strange ambivalence in Mormonism about Satan. On one hand he is the rebel and the tempter, but on the other hand he is the one who helped Eve understand the gospel plan. He also instructs the temple patrons in the wearing of the apron which is the symbol of his “power and priesthoods” (Chuck Sackett, What’s Going On in There? pp. 28–29)—aprons which temple Mormons wear in the temple for the rest of their lives. They are even buried in that apron!

Satan is presented to faithful Latter-day Saints in the Book of Mormon as a wily deceiver who “cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell. And behold, others he flattereth away and telleth them there is no hell—even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment” (2 Nephi 28:21–23)

Yet he is also the only person in the Bible who taught (through the serpent) the LDS law of eternal progression, that “ye shall be as gods” (Genesis 3:5). It is even more strange because LDS doctrine teaches the very same thing Lucifer is credited with teaching in 2 Nephi 28:23—that there is no eternal hell (Doctrine, pp. 349–50).

Is it any wonder that many Mormons do not know precisely what to make of Lucifer?

More copy-pasted strawman.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well i will just cover one point for now as it is important for you to know = Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:1-2

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain.
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ - 2 Corinthians 11:3

Believe in the Truth of the LORD dear friend - HE never spoke a lie and never will - AMEN

Good job! There is no doubt that there were people in the New Testament that thought that the talking serpent was Satan. Apparently it was a secret that was kept from God too? LOL He never blamed Satan for the fall of Man in the Old Testament. How about Christ and the Jews? It must of been quite the secret that only some men knew. The Jewish Talmud was written between 300 and 500 AD, no mention there.

The serpent - dragon in Revelations, a vision? A symbiology of evil? Where does the serpent come from? A real talking serpent. Why wouldn't Christ address this?......And the serpent took Christ to the mountain to tempt Him....it wasn't a serpent. Maybe Satan switched back and forth? It is definitely a New Testament belief along with, disease is caused by demons and the world was flat and the fall of Man was all Eve's fault. Either way it has to come from some where or Revelation would have confused everyone. Satan is a mule! No I do not think so. Fearsome dragon associated with sin and the devil....symbiology? Its connection to Satan is not in the Old Testament...but the belief in dragons and monsters are in the Old Testament. One of the best detailed descriptions is in Job.

“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook? Will it keep begging you for mercy? Will it speak to you with gentle words?
Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of it like a bird or put it on a leash for the young women in your house? Will traders barter for it? Will they divide it up among the merchants? Can you fill its hide with harpoons or its head with fishing spears? If you lay a hand on it, you will remember the struggle and never do it again! Any hope of subduing it is false; the mere sight of it is overpowering. No one is fierce enough to rouse it. Who then is able to stand against me? Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs, its strength and its graceful form. Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor? Who dares open the doors of its mouth, ringed about with fearsome teeth? Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted. Its snorting throws out flashes of light; its eyes are like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from its mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boiling pot over burning reeds. Its breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth. Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. The folds of its flesh are tightly joined; they are firm and immovable. Its chest is hard as rock, hard as a lower millstone. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified; they retreat before its thrashing. The sword that reaches it has no effect, nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin. Iron it treats like straw and bronze like rotten wood. Arrows do not make it flee; sling stones are like chaff to it. A club seems to it but a piece of straw; it laughs at the rattling of the lances. Its undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge. It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment. It leaves a glistening wake behind it; one would think the deep had white hair. Nothing on earth is its equal—a creature without fear. It looks down on all that are haughty; it is king over all that are proud.” Job 41:1-34

In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword— his fierce, great and powerful sword— Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea. Isaiah 27-1

Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; Awake as in the days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not You who cut Rahab in pieces, Who pierced the dragon? Isaiah 51:9

The narrative of Bel the Dragon is incorporated as chapter 14 of the extended Book of Daniel. Daniel 14:1–22

While under the rule of the Persians the Jews were "exposed" to Zoroastrianism. An evil serpent figure named Zahhak was part of their mythology.

The Greco-Romans had stories and beliefs regarding dragons and the Leviathan and of course sailors.

So either way the connection between a fierce dragon and evil is made. Is that part of this? I do not know. Christian reflection can be very inaccurate and false understanding can be held a long time. For example that God called the fourteen summery of laws in chapter 20 of exodus "The Ten Commandments" That misconception has had staying power.

 

[Brakelite]

No as you have been explained to as-nauseum. you like to go back to that old lie!

What you fail to know in your lack of bible understanding is that "god" refers to a person, or to a nature. that is why THEOS IS TRANSLATED SOMETIMES AS God referring to a person and divine in referring to their nature.

You rfailure to define who the Word and the light is is shameful. YOur false explanation f it being an attribute does not stand up to simple Bible reading- The Word is a He! Don't believe me, go ask a second grader!

I know the Father is more exalted than Jesus! But that does not negate that Jeswus is God with His Father and they are one (ehad) Your only defense agains tteh truth is using not translations of Scripture but interpretive translations that are highly subjective.

Like that. I consider the best defense for the divinity of Christ is not because the church inserts Him into a trinity concept, but because He is His Father's Son. Like Father, who is God, like Son, who cannot help but be the same, having inherited all the attributes of deity from His Father.
When Jesus said in reference to His Father, "the only true God", He was speaking the truth. The Father, as the creeds state, was unbegotten. His eternal nature and deity want derived from any other.
Jesus was begotten. His nature He received of His Father, yet because it was the same nature as the Father, it also was in a sense underived. And eternal. Like the Rock cut out of the mountain without hands in Daniel 2. Same nature as the mountain. The Father brought forth His Son, sent His Son to this world as a human, being the express image of Himself. This Jesus and the Father are one, and both worthy of worship.

 

[David in NJ]

Good job! There is no doubt that there were people in the New Testament that thought that the talking serpent was Satan. Apparently it was a secret that was kept from God too? LOL He never blamed Satan for the fall of Man in the Old Testament. How about Christ and the Jews? It must of been quite the secret that only some men knew. The Jewish Talmud was written between 300 and 500 AD, no mention there.

The serpent - dragon in Revelations, a vision? A symbiology of evil? Where does the serpent come from? A real talking serpent. Why wouldn't Christ address this?......And the serpent took Christ to the mountain to tempt Him....it wasn't a serpent. Maybe Satan switched back and forth? It is definitely a New Testament belief along with, disease is caused by demons and the world was flat and the fall of Man was all Eve's fault. Either way it has to come from some where or Revelation would have confused everyone. Satan is a mule! No I do not think so. Fearsome dragon associated with sin and the devil....symbiology? Its connection to Satan is not in the Old Testament...but the belief in dragons and monsters are in the Old Testament. One of the best detailed descriptions is in Job.

“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook or tie down its tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through its nose or pierce its jaw with a hook? Will it keep begging you for mercy? Will it speak to you with gentle words?
Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of it like a bird or put it on a leash for the young women in your house? Will traders barter for it? Will they divide it up among the merchants? Can you fill its hide with harpoons or its head with fishing spears? If you lay a hand on it, you will remember the struggle and never do it again! Any hope of subduing it is false; the mere sight of it is overpowering. No one is fierce enough to rouse it. Who then is able to stand against me? Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me. “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs, its strength and its graceful form. Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor? Who dares open the doors of its mouth, ringed about with fearsome teeth? Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted. Its snorting throws out flashes of light; its eyes are like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from its mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boiling pot over burning reeds. Its breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth. Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. The folds of its flesh are tightly joined; they are firm and immovable. Its chest is hard as rock, hard as a lower millstone. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified; they retreat before its thrashing. The sword that reaches it has no effect, nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin. Iron it treats like straw and bronze like rotten wood. Arrows do not make it flee; sling stones are like chaff to it. A club seems to it but a piece of straw; it laughs at the rattling of the lances. Its undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge. It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment. It leaves a glistening wake behind it; one would think the deep had white hair. Nothing on earth is its equal—a creature without fear. It looks down on all that are haughty; it is king over all that are proud.” Job 41:1-34

In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword— his fierce, great and powerful sword— Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea. Isaiah 27-1

Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; Awake as in the days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not You who cut Rahab in pieces, Who pierced the dragon? Isaiah 51:9

The narrative of Bel the Dragon is incorporated as chapter 14 of the extended Book of Daniel. Daniel 14:1–22

While under the rule of the Persians the Jews were "exposed" to Zoroastrianism. An evil serpent figure named Zahhak was part of their mythology.

The Greco-Romans had stories and beliefs regarding dragons and the Leviathan and of course sailors.

So either way the connection between a fierce dragon and evil is made. Is that part of this? I do not know. Christian reflection can be very inaccurate and false understanding can be held a long time. For example that God called the fourteen summery of laws in chapter 20 of exodus "The Ten Commandments" That misconception has had staying power.

You said: "Good job! There is no doubt that there were people in the New Testament that thought that the talking serpent was Satan. Apparently it was a secret that was kept from God too? LOL He never blamed Satan for the fall of Man in the Old Testament."

This, what you said, can be classified under - Self Deception 101: How people reject the Word of God and are deceived by it.

What God said is TRUTH 101 = Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:1-2
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain.
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

This is where you currently are = "I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ" - 2 Corinthians 11:3

You said: "LOL He never blamed Satan for the fall of Man in the Old Testament."
This makes you a mocker of God as well for the LORD said:
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

Being a mocker of the Word of God is a serious sin and you leave yourself open to satan in doing so.
Repent from this and turn your heart over to the LORD JESUS CHRIST for forgiveness and remission of your sins in order that you may receive the Promise of the Father.