Shalom, veteran.
veteran said:
The 2300 days of Dan.8:13-14 aren't fulfilled yet either, so there's another deception with those who say they are already past history, especially by those who deny the Daniel 9 Scripture about the final "one week" period being for the end times to end this present world.
The end of the 2300 days period ends with Christ's future second coming. Only with Christ's second coming with the idea of the sanctuary (put for Christ's future Milennium Temple in Jerusalem) being cleansed will occur when Christ returns, and not before.
The 2300 days includes the time of the "abomination of desolation" from the Book of Daniel, and that is an event still yet to occur in Jerusalem, it's for the coming tribulation time Jesus mentioned in Matt.24 which relates to the 6 Seals of Revelation 6, and all that is specific for the last days prior to our Lord Jesus' second coming, which is still... yet future to us today.
You gravely err in calling the opinion of someone else "another deception." I believe that you are wrong and I am right. Therefore, from my perspective, it is YOU who are promoting "another deception." Indeed, I find MANY such "deceptions" in your teaching as I do in those of JosyWales. Do I call your teachings "deceptions?" NO! They are merely your OPINIONS! It is better to call them what they really are: They are "errors," not "deceptions." You may BELIEVE that they are "deceptions," but it would be better for you to call them "errors" and not "deceptions," unless you know FULL WELL the other person's heart and can say without a doubt that they are PURPOSELY LYING to you.
There's an old joke:
Question: How do you know when a politician is lying? Answer: When his mouth is open!
I'm not a politician, brother! I'm also not a lawyer nor am I an actor. These, too, are professions that rely upon "lying." Lawyers will sometimes say things that they know are wrong and they don't really believe to make a case. Even the police and police detectives will sometimes use deception to trick a suspect into revealing the truth. Actors are ALWAYS pretending to be someone else and the words out of their mouths while they are doing their jobs acting, are PURPOSELY lying to the audience to make them believe that the actor is indeed the character he or she is portraying. My promise to you is that I am NOT lying to you. Therefore, unless you think that itself is a lie, you should not be so willing to call me a liar or to call my teachings a "deception."
While I may call your teachings "errors" (and I believe that they are), that, too, is just an opinion. In fact, I believe that YOU are the one who had been deceived in the past! Even your teachers, who probably meant well teaching you THEIR opinions that you have either adopted or adapted, have probably been so deceived by other well-meaning believers in their past. Who started these opinions? Who knows but God? Some are as quick as a duck on a June bug to say that they started with haSatan (Hebrew for "the enemy"), but I think that gives haSatan too much credit. Some errors are strictly human errors. Somebody makes a mistake or takes something the wrong way and - boom! - an error is born. Some people are too quick to say, "The devil made me do it!" We should all know that this statement is a cop-out and is not taking responsibility for one's own actions.
In any case, your opinions are no more supported by Scripture from my point of view than my opinions are from your point of view. Call it a draw. I do not find Dani'el 8 to be linked to Dani'el 9 at all except for their positions in his book. I believe that they are like entries in a journal, and are two separate accounts of incidents that happened to him. Furthermore, I find that Dani'el 8 was fulfilled in the past. I believe that 2 Maccabees is proof that the prophecy was fulfilled, but you are just not willing to accept that history as proof of fulfillment. One might ask, "Where's the biblical proof that the prophecy was fulfilled?" but does the Bible truly answer every question posed? (That's a rhetorical question, by the way. Of COURSE, it doesn't answer every question! Proof of that is simple; merely ask a question that you KNOW the Bible doesn't talk about, like "What are the elements in nitric acid?")
I also believe (as you do, too) that most of the seventy Sevens of Dani'el 9 were fulfilled in the past. You believe that the exception is the seventieth Seven, which is assigned to the future. I believe that it is only the last HALF of the seventieth Seven that is still to be fulfilled in the future. JosyWales puts the whole seventy Sevens in the future as "Sevens" of days instead of years, falling in between the trumpet judgments of Revelation 9! These are just three different opinions, and we KNOW that there are others, such as full preterism which says the whole seventy Sevens were fulfilled in the past. How do we know which is true? Well, some mysteries won't be known until the Messiah returns with His saints. Then, we can ASK those who KNOW the truth! And, we will probably find that we BOTH had some things that were right, but MANY things that were wrong!
In the meantime, all we can do is assume a position is correct and run with it to its conclusions. If it leads to a contradiction, we have a choice to make: Either we cling to the position and attempt to find where the "conclusion" went wrong, or we must reject the position as untenable and choose a different position. JosyWales thinks there is nothing more to learn on the subject because "49 + 150 + 434 + 396.25 + 7 + 1,260 + 3.5 = 2,300." (Of course, it actually adds up to 2,299.75, but - hey! - "close enough for government work!") The bigger problem I see with JosyWales' point of view is "Dani'el 9 + Revelation 9 = Dani'el 8!" But, hey! Who am I to argue with "perfection?"
Finally, I think the thing that "locks you" into your position on Dani'el 8 and 9 (and probably Dani'el 11, too) is the way you treat the words "abomination of desolation." To you (and probably to JosyWales as well), it is a LABEL for that event which can ONLY be performed by the "Antichrist" or the Beast. The problem with that is that now those words can't mean anything else, nor can they be used in any other way! However, those words "
shomeem" and "
shiquwts" are fairly common in Hebrew and could be used for different situations in different contexts! So, just because one or both of the words were used in Dani'el 8:13, 9:26 and 11:31 does NOT mean that they are all talking about the same event! It should NOT be viewed as "THE abomination that makes desolate" but rather "AN abomination that makes desolate!" Not just ONE event, but one of MANY such events! It's not THAT the words are used but HOW the words are used that should take precedence in your eschatology.
Anyway, again, that's my opinion.