""...., because no one can cleanse themselves of sin by their own efforts.....""
YES, that is done only by trusting in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ = Col 2:13 ...having forgiven you all trespasses;
Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?
- Thread starter 1stCenturyLady
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
YES, that is done only by trusting in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ = Col 2:13 ...having forgiven you all trespasses;
That's 3 questions.
Judge yourself
Matt 11:28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
Matt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
1Joh 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
1Joh 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
1Joh 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
1Joh 5:4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world— our faith.
1Joh 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
versus :
1Petr 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Petr 4:18 And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
Filipp 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
Didn't the people to whom Jesus once said "your sins are forgiven" die? Why do you think they died?
Jesus' forgiveness helps our sins not be taken into account when it comes to being judged. A person who is forgiven for his past sins and sins again...what do you think happens to him?
John 5:5 But one man was there who had been sick for 38 years. 6 Seeing this man lying there and being aware that he had already been sick for a long time, Jesus said to him: “Do you want to get well?” 7 The sick man answered him: “Sir, I do not have anyone to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, but while I am on my way, another steps down ahead of me.” 8 Jesus said to him: "Get up! Pick up your mat and walk." 9 And the man immediately got well, and he picked up his mat and began to walk. That day was the Sabbath. 10 So the Jews began to say to the cured man: “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to carry the mat.” 11 But he answered them: “The same one who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’” 12 They asked him: “Who is the man who told you, ‘Pick it up and walk’?” 13 But the healed man did not know who he was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there. 14 After this Jesus found him in the temple and said to him: "See, you have become well. Do not sin anymore, so that something worse does not happen to you." 15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
Jesus' forgiveness helps our sins not be taken into account when it comes to being judged. A person who is forgiven for his past sins and sins again...what do you think happens to him?
John 5:5 But one man was there who had been sick for 38 years. 6 Seeing this man lying there and being aware that he had already been sick for a long time, Jesus said to him: “Do you want to get well?” 7 The sick man answered him: “Sir, I do not have anyone to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up, but while I am on my way, another steps down ahead of me.” 8 Jesus said to him: "Get up! Pick up your mat and walk." 9 And the man immediately got well, and he picked up his mat and began to walk. That day was the Sabbath. 10 So the Jews began to say to the cured man: “It is the Sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to carry the mat.” 11 But he answered them: “The same one who made me well said to me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’” 12 They asked him: “Who is the man who told you, ‘Pick it up and walk’?” 13 But the healed man did not know who he was, for Jesus had slipped away into the crowd that was there. 14 After this Jesus found him in the temple and said to him: "See, you have become well. Do not sin anymore, so that something worse does not happen to you." 15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
As Christ told the young rich ruler sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor,
I haven't done that, what about you ?
If not, why not since it is a requirement to enter eternal life
Impossible for men. With God all things are possible.
Human perfection will only be possible under the conditions that God himself has established:
1) human flesh will cease to be corrupt due to the imperfection inherited from our first parents; this will only be possible through the work of Jesus’ heavenly priesthood before his Father and God in heaven, together with the associate priests who will be with him and who will reign over the earth for a thousand years.
2) the earthly environment will change completely: wickedness will be eliminated from the entire planet, and no one will have to be affected by wicked people or their actions.
3) all humanity will be taught by God. Where there is knowledge, there is wisdom; where there is wisdom, the results are better.
Today, that is impossible:
Rom. 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.
1) human flesh will cease to be corrupt due to the imperfection inherited from our first parents; this will only be possible through the work of Jesus’ heavenly priesthood before his Father and God in heaven, together with the associate priests who will be with him and who will reign over the earth for a thousand years.
2) the earthly environment will change completely: wickedness will be eliminated from the entire planet, and no one will have to be affected by wicked people or their actions.
3) all humanity will be taught by God. Where there is knowledge, there is wisdom; where there is wisdom, the results are better.
Today, that is impossible:
Rom. 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.
I think a lot of churches are against any teaching on sinless perfection because they prefer to get as many tithing members committed as possible who don't come close to that.
I'm no authority on the topic but I think the issue of sin is always about today and right now. If we say sincerely in our heart that we will serve God now without the intention of sinning again, I think that is the key. I don't worry about what Ill do the rest of my life. I worry about today. If I sin, I repent and get back up and go back to serving God without intending to sin again. But the goal is to not sin and go on to perfection.
One more thing I've noticed. We tend to make the goal post super high so there's no practical way to reach it.
It is a good thing to resolve to stay as far away from sin as possible. That undoubtedly pleases God, and He blesses us for those efforts.
However, the sin that causes human beings to die "naturally" is not merely the specific act—the occasional deed that violates biblical principles and displeases God... Human sin is a condition of the fallen flesh. It cannot be eliminated by human effort, nor under present conditions.
However, the sin that causes human beings to die "naturally" is not merely the specific act—the occasional deed that violates biblical principles and displeases God... Human sin is a condition of the fallen flesh. It cannot be eliminated by human effort, nor under present conditions.
Not on your own, of course not. That is why it is not up to us. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith, not us. Do you deny that Jesus takes away our (lawless vs. 4) sin, and in Him is no sin? Do you have any desire to break any of the commandments of God? I did. Adultery. I was a slave to it. But then when I confessed that weakness to God, He answered my prayer and took away all desire to commit adultery completely, and I was free from sin. Sins unto death that is. But that is how when we are born again of the Spirit we are righteous. Not our own righteousness, but the righteousness of Christ. We love what He loves, and hate what He hates.
But being righteous doesn't make us holy. That is a higher level, and the level Jesus wants for us. So He starts maturing the fruit of the Spirit in us, this time as the Finisher of our second level of faith. Jesus also promises Phil. 1:6, "being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. Matthew 5:48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."
If Adam's sin were completely erased from a person, that person would not age, fall ill, or die.
Did you know that those three things—sickness, aging, and death—are the result of sin in human flesh?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Because God also uses it--not for the soul--but for both the flesh and that which is not born of the flesh, but born of the spirit of God.
The soul rather, is the essence given to us by God that we might be saved by passing from the flesh to the spirit of God.
Who have you been listening to? Fallen flesh? This is why Jesus said we must be born again of the Spirit. Notice that in Romans 7:5-6 being in the flesh is past. "5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Here is another. Romans 8:8-9 "8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The standard is not yours for me to follow, but God's. I respond with what is from God, sometimes with quotation marks, sometimes not.
When Jesus cleanses our old sin nature to a clean nature when He makes us born again of the Spirit, we can partake of the divine nature of God. That is loving what He loves, and hating what He hates.
That is the reality of a born again Christian. But there are many preachers on the radio that explain it as being clothed with the imputed righteousness of Christ, but we ourselves are still sinners that Christ's righteousness covers.
Do you know of any Christian who, by virtue of having been "born again," has managed to avoid aging, escape illness, and not die?
I know of none, and I have never heard of anyone on earth who has been able to avoid those three things, no matter how good a Christian they were.
There is no need to even debate it, for reality and common sense speak the truth: Christ does not teach fantasies, and the Bible misleads no one—it is objective and realistic. Human sin will not be eliminated within this system of things—neither at the individual level, nor within the church, and certainly not among humanity as a whole.
Why? It is simple to understand: sin resides within our flesh; it is not merely on the surface, like something that can simply be shaken off. Its power will be eliminated only when humanity is under Christ’s thousand-year Kingdom—a time when neither humans nor evil spirits can influence behavior, and when all the children of God are taught by Him, learning and receiving instruction on how to live in God’s new world.
Today, we simply await the fulfillment of that promise, without indulging in fantasy; we know we cannot completely cleanse ourselves of sin, no matter how hard we strive. God helps us, granting us His Spirit and the hope that this will soon be fully possible—and if we were to see that realized today, what then would we be waiting for?
As Paul says in the passage I cited earlier:
Rom. 8:24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.
I know of none, and I have never heard of anyone on earth who has been able to avoid those three things, no matter how good a Christian they were.
There is no need to even debate it, for reality and common sense speak the truth: Christ does not teach fantasies, and the Bible misleads no one—it is objective and realistic. Human sin will not be eliminated within this system of things—neither at the individual level, nor within the church, and certainly not among humanity as a whole.
Why? It is simple to understand: sin resides within our flesh; it is not merely on the surface, like something that can simply be shaken off. Its power will be eliminated only when humanity is under Christ’s thousand-year Kingdom—a time when neither humans nor evil spirits can influence behavior, and when all the children of God are taught by Him, learning and receiving instruction on how to live in God’s new world.
Today, we simply await the fulfillment of that promise, without indulging in fantasy; we know we cannot completely cleanse ourselves of sin, no matter how hard we strive. God helps us, granting us His Spirit and the hope that this will soon be fully possible—and if we were to see that realized today, what then would we be waiting for?
As Paul says in the passage I cited earlier:
Rom. 8:24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.
You may realize that Christ doesn't cover up the sin nature. He unplugs it by crucifying it. Paul says it is no loner I...but Christ. Not many will experience the cross to that depth.
You can't hold your own thoughts as from God, but find the scriptures that verify those thoughts. I also am taught by God. But what I learn is always verified by His written word.
The sin nature is crucified, but then resurrected. It is clean. And I have experienced the cross to that depth. Have you?
Similar threads
