SinSinSin...RepentRepentRepent...YackYackYack...

[Renniks]

If you willfully sin after conversion, you have been brought to the point of impossibility to do so:

Hebrews 6:4-6

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

What deeply concerns me is why some prefer the “change of mind” definition...

Perhaps it is impossible for them to be brought again to the true biblical repentance.

So I can not sin after conversion? Yeah, right! Everyone sins after conversion.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Actually, the Hebrew that is translated repent means, I believe, to change your direction. Stop going the way you were going and turn around.

The Greek that is translated repentance means to have a new mind.

So, @marks

If I may. Let’s apply that logic to this situation in scripture; where the Lord says:

Luke 17:3

“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.”

So, mark, if I offend against you (hypothetically), and you get angry with me; which response below would convey an apology to you:

1. I am so sorry to have offended you, mark.

2. I have changed my mind regarding my offense to you, mark.

Would you forgive me because I was sorry for offending you?

Or because I changed my mind towards you?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

So I can not sin after conversion? Yeah, right! Everyone sins after conversion

Sure, everyone with a False conversion who is not born or God; for:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; ...and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

with the word “ metanoia” which literally means “ mind chang”

Not so.

See Luke 17:4

You cannot make a valid argument that “metanoia” means a “change of mind” here where the Lord instructs us to forgive repentant repeat offenders.

 

[marks]

So, @marks

If I may. Let’s apply that logic to this situation in scripture; where the Lord says:

Luke 17:3

“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.”

So, mark, if I offend against you (hypothetically), and you get angry with me; which response below would convey an apology to you:

1. I am so sorry to have offended you, mark.

2. I have changed my mind regarding my offense to you, mark.

Would you forgive me because I was sorry for offending you?

Or because I changed my mind towards you?

Hypotheticals aren't real situation. Since you make it up, you can turn it whichever way you want.

But to answer your question, a simple "I'm sorry!" conveys your thought just fine.

Metanoia is when you realize that you've been insulting, not that you are, some are, but I haven't seen that from you, but should you realize you've been insulting, and you likewise realize that's not what you want. That's more the new mind, rather, "I mustn't do that anymore."

I can try to control my urge to insult, but I think I do better to learn to love instead. Then I won't insult, but I also won't spread rumors, and I'll give you what you need. Out of love.

The metanoia in Scripture, looking at the detail Paul gives us, is about renouncing the flesh, sin, in favor of trusting in Jesus, at which time He gives a new mind, the mind of Christ, this is metanoia, having the new mind.

Realize what Jesus is doing here. He is showing us how to mend our divisions, forgive when offended, but remember David's word, Against You alone have I sinned." Our sins are actually against God, and it's up to God to forgive.

God's forgiveness is judicial, mine is not. I can forgive you all day long, but that doesn't change yours or my standing with God. Our standing with God is found in Christ alone.

When we forgive others, we are mending torn relationships.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not so.

See Luke 17:4

You cannot make a valid argument that “metanoia” means a “change of mind” here where the Lord instructs us to forgive repentant repeat offenders.

Don't listen to me. Research the meaning of the word for yourself.

Much love!

 

[BreadOfLife]

However, too many “confused” Christians ....too many “poorly taught” Christians seem to live their lives Dwelling on the subject of Sin....something that God took care of for you, if you are a Believer in Jesus.If you are a Believer, God has Promised to Firgive you for all of your sins.....past ,present , and future.....He promised to take your sins and toss them into the “ deepest depths of the sea”.Your sins are as far removed from His sight as “
A life devoted to Sin-Maitainence as opposed to Son Appreciation shows a lack of confidence in the Plan Of God for His Children , simply put, it shows a lack of Faith . It’s a Paradox, but nevertheless it is True......the More I keep my eyes on Him and HIS Performance, not being so Obsessed with “ my” pitiful Performance —- the Better my Performance becomes .Christianity is kinda “ crazy “ like that.....Full Of Paradoxes—— you go up by going down......you become first by being last....I am finding that the less I worry about sin the better job I do Of not Sinning .....hmmmm... I wonder if God knew that long before I did......God bless...

Can you show me where the Bible teaches that ALL of FUTURE sins forgiven without having to repent of them?

Chapter and Verse, please . . .

 

[BarneyFife]

I was a gentile upon coming to Christ, I had no knowledge of a mosaic law.

Well, you couldn't have avoided it for very long; it's all throughout the Bible.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I was a gentile upon coming to Christ, I had no knowledge of a mosaic law.

You did (we all did) but you did not know it by name as the Mosaic law.

Romans 2:14-15
14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires (do not steal, do not lie, etc), they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts.....

Surely, you grew up understanding that things like adultery, lying, stealing were wrong. We all did. That's what Paul is talking about. By nature, the requirements of the law are innately known to mankind. This is why God can judge the whole world according to the law. Your conscience is the 'law' by which he will judge everyone who's never heard of Moses or Jesus.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So how is it that if we sin it is impossible to be able to repent?

When that sin represents a flagrant, willful rejection of God's grace in unbelief. In time God will close the door on that person to be able to repent of that sin. Even if they want to. You can only trample on the Son of God so long.

 

[Heart2Soul]

When that sin represents a flagrant, willful rejection of God's grace in unbelief. In time God will close the door on that person to be able to repent of that sin. Even if they want to. You can only trample on the Son of God so long.

Thanks for the reply, however, you have censured and left out the rest of my question which brings the context to be intended as saying there is a reason the author didn't use the term "sin" but rather "fallen away".
Is fallen away the same as sin?
Is sin the same as fallen away....which, by the way, also means apostasy. The great apostasy or the great falling away is what is or will happen before Christ's soon return.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

When you try to keep it. When you make that your goal.

Why would Paul and the Apostles want to kill people by instructing them to keep the law? Example:

James 2:1, James 2:9
1My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism (see Leviticus 19:15)

9 ...if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers.

He's plainly telling us to keep the law. But why would he do that if doing that kills you? The born again person is commanded to keep the law, and keeping the law does not result in bondage and death. It results in life and liberty and peace....

James 2:12
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom

James 2:8
8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” a you are doing right.

James 1:25
25But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

The effort to keep the law only kills unbelievers because they do not have the capacity by the Holy Spirit to keep it, and so they are condemned by it. For the Christian looking intently into the law and keeping the law, they are doing right and not condemned by it, and they are blessed. I know. Our church leaders tell us that is not true and 'looking to the law' and keeping it results in your damnation as a self righteous legalist. But as we can see above, the church has been teaching heresy and leading a lot of people astray, and making them feel safe and comfortable and feeling blessed in their rejection of keeping the law, as if keeping the law is what it means to be self righteous. How ridiculous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Thanks for the reply, however, you have censured and left out the rest of my question which brings the context to be intended as saying there is a reason the author didn't use the term "sin" but rather "fallen away".
Is fallen away the same as sin?
Is sin the same as fallen away....which, by the way, also means apostasy. The great apostasy or the great falling away is what is or will happen before Christ's soon return.

Falling away means going back to your sin in unbelief.

Hebrews 3:12-13
12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.

You can't separate unbelief and sin any more than you can separate faith and obedience.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

the church has been teaching heresy and misleading a lot of people astray, and making them feel safe and comfortable and feeling blessed in their rejection of keeping the law, as if that's what it means to be self righteous.

Just like the false prophets in the Old Testament:

"For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed." (Isaiah 9:16)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just like the false prophets in the Old Testament:

"For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed." (Isaiah 9:16)

If only Christians would read the OT and see the parallels with the church today and learn from it. Instead, the church leadership has taught us the OT and the law are irrelevant and inapplicable today. And so no one reads it with any consideration of it's usefulness and application to life today as the people of God.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Falling away means going back to your sin in unbelief.

Hebrews 3:12-13
12See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.

You can't separate unbelief and sin any more than you can separate faith and obedience.

Well no it doesn't...
For a complete understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 this article is well written with the original Greek language as reference..
Hebrews 6:4-6 ~ Does Not Teach That a Believer Can Lose His Salvation
It would help your understanding to read it...this is how people keep getting taught falsely what His Word says...they don't study it from the original context.
Hebrews 6:4-6
The book of Hebrews is written to Jewish Christians concerning those issues which affected them at that day, as opposed to Gentile believer’s issues.

Among the many issues central to the Hebrews was that of converting from Judaism to Christianity, and the fact that to the Jews Christianity was anathema (“Damned of God”), as a heresy.

We 21st-century Gentiles have no capacity to understand what this meant to the Jew in Jesus’ day.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If only Christians would read the OT and see the parallels with the church today and learn from it. Instead, the church leadership has taught us the OT and the law are irrelevant and inapplicable today. And so no one reads it with any consideration of it's usefulness and application to life today as the people of God.

Preach it brother!

Right on point.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For a complete understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 this article is well written with the original Greek language as reference..
Hebrews 6:4-6 ~ Does Not Teach That a Believer Can Lose His Salvation
It would help your understanding to read it...this is how people keep getting taught falsely what His Word says...they don't study it from the original context.

I will look at it, but I wasn't making a once saved always saved argument either way. I have found that to be a fruitless, meaningless bunny trail away from what really matters. Not because it's a meaningless subject, but because the church handles the subject in a way that makes it fruitless and meaningless and they learn nothing from it that matters.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well no it doesn't...

But to your point........falling away is rejecting God's forgiveness in Christ. It's rejecting the gospel. It's impossible that you not be in the bondage of sin as an unbeliever when you reject the gospel. Faith in Christ is the only way that you not be in sin.

My observation is that people reject the gospel in order to indulge the sins they prefer over the gospel.

 

[Heart2Soul]

But to your point........falling away is rejecting God's forgiveness in Christ. It's rejecting the gospel. It's impossible that you not be in the bondage of sin as an unbeliever when you reject the gospel. Faith in Christ is the only way that you not be in sin.

My observation is that people reject the gospel in order to indulge the sins they prefer over the gospel.

We aren't sinners because we sin...
We sin because we are sinners..
Our flesh is corrupt...our spirit is born again yet continues to dwell in the flesh which the bible says is corrupt and wars against the spirit daily.