Slaying Sacred Cows-- examining pet beliefs

[Wrangler]

Why is this your favorite?

Its perspective is all of existence. How all of nature and all his word point to God’s glory.

Atheists got nothing.

 

[Mr E]

One sacred cow I’m particularly interested in is the the sons of God. The notion there could be any prior to the birth of Jesus.

That's a great topic to look at.

 

[Mr E]

Why is this your favorite?

The psalm talks about how the heavens declare the glory of God and then it describes the sun- this way.... an obvious allusion to the Son of God--

Like a bridegroom it emerges from its chamber;
like a strong man it enjoys running its course.


Maybe people think of this in some particular way--- I know I do. When it says 'like a bridegroom emerges from its chamber' the imagery is so striking. It says God made a tent for His son. A tabernacle in the heavens. But it's not the tent (Hebrew ohel) that verse 5 is talking about. It's a specific kind of canopy-- the wedding booth (Hebrew choppah). And this is doubly confirmed with the reference to 'like a bridegroom.'

He emerges and displays the crimson proof of the union he has enjoyed in the wedding chamber. We call it sunrise.

The second part of the verse is almost as great as the first. The sun emerges 'like a strong man' -- like a champion. Like a boss.

It's not simply that the course it must run is laid out before it. It's that it knows exactly what it must do and it's been done many times before, which ties in directly to that sacred cow you mentioned in your post ahead of this one. Like a champion who's been there before.

 

[Waiting on him]

Its perspective is all of existence. How all of nature and all his word point to God’s glory.

Atheists got nothing.

As I read the 19 psalm, I’ve recently started seeing similarities too what transpired in the first century pertaining to Jesus and the Christian community.

 

[Mr E]

As I read the 19 psalm, I’ve recently started seeing similarities too what transpired in the first century pertaining to Jesus and the Christian community.

 

[Waiting on him]

Like a bridegroom it emerges from its chamber;
like a strong man it enjoys running its course.

Paul eluded to having ran a race where only one wins the prize.

 

[Grailhunter]

How many ways can you confuse your beliefs?
You bring up the topic of sacred cows and people cling to those and defend them.
In my sturdies since I am interested in truth I run across a lot of false beliefs.
Like your sacred cows....people have a tendency to hold these false beliefs over everything....even defining the primarily part of their religion.
There are still Christians trying to prove the world is flat.
But then most false beliefs have been formulated over the centuries outside of the scriptures.
Which causes people to go back and re-interpret the scriptures wrong....in different ways.
Then there is an honest confusion factor.....30,000 Protestant denominations.....Why is the New Testament so hard to interpret? If it were a traffic manual with thousands of interpretations it would not be safe to drive.
One of the reasons why the scriptures can be confusing is the theological style of writing in the New Testament, were the same person can speak to both ends of a topic....to the extremes. You see it here on the forum were people throw scriptures at each other over the same topic by the same person that seem to say opposite concepts. You see very little of this style in the Old Testament or in the early Christian writings after the biblical era.

 

[Mr E]

How many ways can you confuse your beliefs?
You bring up the topic of sacred cows and people cling to those and defend them.
In my sturdies since I am interested in truth I run across a lot of false beliefs.
Like your sacred cows....people have a tendency to hold these false beliefs over everything....even defining the primarily part of their religion.
There are still Christians trying to prove the world is flat.
But then most false beliefs have been formulated over the centuries outside of the scriptures.
Which causes people to go back and re-interpret the scriptures wrong....in different ways.
Then there is an honest confusion factor.....30,000 Protestant denominations.....Why is the New Testament so hard to interpret? If it were a traffic manual with thousands of interpretations it would not be safe to drive.
One of the reasons why the scriptures can be confusing is the theological style of writing in the New Testament, were the same person can speak to both ends of a topic....to the extremes. You see it here on the forum were people throw scriptures at each other over the same topic by the same person that seem to say opposite concepts. You see very little of this style in the Old Testament or in the early Christian writings after the biblical era.

Since @Waiting on him so nicely alluded to it-- why does the Christ come?

Primarily, it is to correct course. God sends His anointing onto men in order to set the record straight and redeem us from the error of our ways (sin-- or missing the mark, or bad directions as you theorize).

Jesus spent much of his time telling the religious leaders that they had bad ideas. He called them out for misleading the people and misrepresenting our Father. He called them 'blind guides' who would lead people into the pit making them children of hell.

Hypocrites, whitewashed tombs, full of the bones of the dead and of everything unclean, full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

This is what he said of the experts.

 

[Mr E]

Paul eluded to having ran a race where only one wins the prize.

I'll show you something perhaps you've never been shown before. You can go back in scripture and do a study if you have the time, but there are a great many examples where you'll read that the word of God came to so and so..... The Word came to men. It's not the way people have been taught to consider it, but it's what Jesus describes himself, concerning himself- while quoting Isaiah

Isaiah is speaking of himself, as are prior prophets when they say similarly that the spirit of the Lord is upon them, or that the word of God has come to them. It's where they get their understanding. It's the anointing of the holy spirit upon man-- Immanuel, God with us. Read the accounts for yourself-- The word of the Lord came to-- Jeremiah, Abraham, Elijah, Jonah, Samuel, and so on.... You've been taught that these are different. Are they?

Isaiah- whom Jesus quotes.

The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is upon me,
because the LORD has chosen me.

Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus also was baptized. And while he was praying, the heavens opened, and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove.

 

[ScottA]

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss favorite ideas from scriptures. One poster in another thread made a comment surrounding the tendency for believers to form denominations based on their particular affinity to one idea or another- and he made a good observation in this. That's the core of denominational difference. I hold to this idea, while you hold to that... and each of us of course present scriptural argument to support our ideas and confront theirs. This thread contains no denominational bias. I don't care if you are Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Muslim or Jew. I just don't care.

Let's look at beliefs for what they really are-- they are ideas. Concepts you accept. Sometimes containing even concepts you don't really understand, but you accept. --Sometimes people accept certain ideas not recognizing the unintended consequences of those beliefs. This thread is intended to be an open discussion of ideas like that-- what we believe and what it then means. It's not designed to be a proving ground for who is right and who is wrong, rather it will be a laboratory where we dissect beliefs to better understand the substance of them, what makes them what they are, and what that then means... how that understanding informs and shapes our beliefs. It's an effort to embrace a logical, well-founded faith in Christ.

We can make a list of such ideas and if necessary spin out threads like the one discussing Mary and Joseph's "coming together" (uniting in marriage) when he takes her as his wife before they "come together" (cohabit) and they begin living together as newly married couples do. If anyone has new ideas that haven't already been addressed in that thread-- add them to the list here.

Another sacred cow surrounds the humanity of the baby they had. I've heard some here argue emphatically that Jesus was not human. He was something more like super-human, only appearing to be a man. We can look at that. If you believe that, your beliefs have certain repercussions. A hot button issue is the belief in the trinity-- a topic considered out of bounds, so beyond this mention here we'll carefully avoid discussing it in this thread to abide by Forum wishes. It's just too upsetting for some to discuss. Some hold it so tightly and some oppose it so strongly. I could argue that for those reasons it should be discussed, but it won't be here. How about 'the rapture?' For some it's a deal-breaker belief-- You must believe it, while others dismiss it. -But there have to be a few dozen rapture discussions already. I'd like to look at bigger, more foundational ideas.

If anyone has an idea they'd like to raise, the floor is open. Otherwise-- I'll dive into something from my own heart.

Hahahah...that would make this a kind of board within a board!

 

[Mr E]

You run your race, you get your crown. I posted this some time ago in the albums, but this is an actual ancient champion's laurel (crown/stephanos). I don't have the time or energy to argue with well-meaning people who think that it's the antichrist depicted as a champion on a white horse in Rev 6. It's nonsense. If you can get your head around the idea that Christ is this champion-- this victor, you'll recognize him again in Rev 19 where he is depicted again as having MANY crowns. Winner of many races. Like that sun emerging victorious-- not his first rodeo.

 

[ScottA]

One sacred cow I’m particularly interested in is the the sons of God. The notion there could be any prior to the birth of Jesus.

The plurality of God is simply stated--it is.

Indeed it is certainly something that can be delved into. However you actually mention two concepts, the other being the creation of the One Jesus--that is Jesus, the Son of God as coming in the midst of creation.

I would suggest that before delving into the plurality of God, one should first understand the nature of all that is created...which I can tell you is simply the manifestation of all that is conceived in the heavens, both good and evil. Which, as it is written, Jesus only came into in the fulness of time having first been conceived "before the foundation of the world."

 

[Mr E]

I hope this hits some ears. I pray that it penetrates your soul and speaks to the spirit within you.

It’s not about the flesh, but the spirit. The dove that came down. The lamb that is pure and spotless is the one who was sacrificed and sent from heaven to earth. Don’t get stuck staring at the physical reflection.

This is heavenly (spiritual) understanding.

Many crowns— victorious every time.

 

[Wrangler]

the nature of all that is created...which I can tell you is simply the manifestation of all that is conceived in the heavens, both good and evil.

Lately, I've been thinking about how there is sin in heaven. (We know this because heaven is where Satan rebelled from.) This challenges the sacred cow I was raised with as 'heaven' is to be desired for it's lack of problems, e.g., I went to Vacation Destination X and it was heaven.

Which, as it is written, Jesus only came into in the fulness of time having first been conceived "before the foundation of the world."

Profound. What verse says that?

 

[Mr E]

Lately, I've been thinking about how there is sin in heaven. (We know this because heaven is where Satan rebelled from.) This challenges the sacred cow I was raised with as 'heaven' is to be desired for it's lack of problems, e.g., I went to Vacation Destination X and it was heaven.


Profound. What verse says that?

There's a reason why it's walled and gated, and why there is battle in heaven.

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus only came into in the fulness of time having first been conceived "before the foundation of the world."

All I’m trying to say is Jesus just like everyone proceeding him is born from above. The way I’ve read it is he was born somewhere around maybe 29 ad ?

That being said John testified that he witnessed the light come into the world with this miraculous birth in the first century, so I have to conclude that Gods creation began in the first century with Jesus. After all he is named creator of the worlds in Hebrews.

 

[Waiting on him]

There's a reason why it's walled and gated, and why there is battle in heaven.

You know my wife @VictoryinJesus said something profound to me this morning, she’d talked about mentioning what God gave her here on the forum, and I cautioned and told her she’d be crucified. I hope she’ll share this blessing here on your thread, because I do believe it is very enlightening too what you’ve stated above.

I’m going to let her choose to share or not? I can’t get it out of my mind, I hope she will.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You know my wife @VictoryinJesus said something profound to me this morning, she’d talked about mentioning what God gave her here on the forum, and I cautioned and told her she’d be crucified. I hope she’ll share this blessing here on your thread, because I do believe it is very enlightening too what you’ve stated above.

I’m going to let her choose to share or not? I can’t get it out of my mind, I hope she will.

You share it.

My stomach is still bothering me.

 

[Waiting on him]

You share it.

My stomach is still bothering me.

It’s not mine. When ever your ready will be fine.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It’s not mine. When ever your ready will be fine.

Of course it is.