So what's the future for the USA?

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Phoneman777

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What is even more grave is how few Christian nations remain:
Christian state - Wikipedia.

God save the Queen!
Exactly! Over in Europe, all the old Protestant Reformation heritage sites are vandalized or forgotten. The church where Luther preached gets sprayed with graffiti. During the time Luther was hammering the Papacy in Germany, England saw Latimer, Cramner, and Ridley burned to death for denouncing the Papacy as Antichrist in 1555-56...a small, obscure plaque on the side of a building commemorates the spot where it happened. And today, "protestants" are totally blind to the truth of prophecy, following Jesuit ideas...
 
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Brakelite

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This is hilarious. One does not need the Jesuits to teach Christians that a multitude of prophecies are to be fulfilled in the future. Including the prophecies pertaining to the Antichrist.
Yet all the Christians from the 14th century to the 18th and beyond, taught and identified the papacy as a system and sometimes the pope as an individual representing that system, being the Antichrist. It is clear that from the 14th till the 18th centuries, the incriminating finger of Bible prophecy was squarely pointed at the Bishop of Rome as the predicted Antichrist of Scripture. After presenting an impressive mass of evidence from the original sources, one author concluded, “In Germany, Switzerland, France, Denmark, Sweden, England, and Scotland there had been simultaneous and impressive declarations by voice and pen that the Papacy was the specified Antichrist of prophecy. The symbols of Daniel, Paul, and John were applied with tremendous effect. Hundreds of books and tracts impressed their contention upon the consciousness of Europe. Indeed, it gained so great a hold upon the minds of men that Rome, in alarm, saw that she must successfully counteract this identification of Antichrist with the Papacy, or lose the battle.”
Bear in mind that those who pointed the finger at the Papacy as the great Antichrist were highly educated. Most were experts in Hebrew, Greek and Latin. Many reached their own conclusions independently of others. Their works were saturated with quotations from Daniel 7 (the little horn), Revelation 13 (the beast), Revelation 17 (the harlot), II Thessalonians 2 (the Man of Sin), and Matthew 24 (the Abomination of Desolation). Their testimony was unanimous and covered the entire European Continent.

Without the record of history, it is impossible to prove, verify, or validate any futurist theory.
 

Philip James

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Yet all the Christians from the 14th century to the 18th and beyond, taught and identified the papacy as a system and sometimes the pope as an individual representing that system, being the Antichrist.

It is unsurprising that those who rebelled sought justification for their rebellion...

The end of the thousand year reign of Christendom is a direct result of that rebellion..

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"


And now the stage is set, for the world to ultimately reject the Church, just as it rejected her Holy Husband..

The passion of the Church is at hand...

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
 

Davy

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All economies that are set up as "showing a profit, each new year".... are eventually going to fail.
This is because yearly "profit margin" economics can only be maintained by raising prices that are related to dealing with inflation that is driven by "profit margin" mania.
So eventually, all companies hit a situation where their products have so saturated the market and have continued to increase in Price over time, that the consumer buys the same from the smaller "NEW" company that is offering the same product for less.
All "new" companies are clones of Larger established companies. And because they are new, they have less overhead, less staff, less insurance to cover, so for a while they can make a lot of money. But eventually they become too large, too profit margin driven, and they become the same situation as the company they Cloned.

My college economic text, and my Japanese economics instructor, both claimed to be teaching Keynesian economics, and basic principles of supply and demand from Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations - 1776). That's not really the type of economic system the United States has though, not since the New York banking elites took over control of U.S. monetary policy.

The banking elites even during the administration of Andrew Jackson sought to get control of U.S. monetary policy by eventually printing fiat paper money instead of staying on a gold standard. The NY banker Nicholas Biddle tried to politically destroy President Jackson through slander because Jackson wouldn't renew the national bank charter which created political control by bankers. Jackson was against the political control the bankers were trying to establish which had no Congressional oversight. Jackson knew what the bankers were up to and pushed for keeping the U.S. on a gold standard policy.

What ex-chairman of the board of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, said about the gold standard vs. the welfare statist's fiat paper money system, in later years after he retired he said he still believing in a gold standard:

---------------
"Under a gold standard, the amount of credit that an economy can support is determined by the economy’s tangible assets, since every credit instrument is ultimately a claim on some tangible asset. But government bonds are not backed by tangible wealth, only by the government’s promise to pay out of future tax revenues, and cannot easily be absorbed by the financial markets. A large volume of new government bonds can be sold to the public only at progressively higher interest rates. Thus, government deficit spending under a gold standard is severely limited. The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. They have created paper reserves in the form of government bonds which — through a complex series of steps — the banks accept in place of tangible assets and treat as if they were an actual deposit, i.e., as the equivalent of what was formerly a deposit of gold. The holder of a government bond or of a bank deposit created by paper reserves believes that he has a valid claim on a real asset. But the fact is that there are now more claims outstanding than real assets. The law of supply and demand is not to be conned. As the supply of money (of claims) increases relative to the supply of tangible assets in the economy, prices must eventually rise. Thus the earnings saved by the productive members of society lose value in terms of goods.

When the economy’s books are finally balanced, one finds that this loss in value represents the goods purchased by the government for welfare or other purposes with the money proceeds of the government bonds finance by bank credit expansion. In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists’ tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists’ antagonism toward the gold standard."
-----------------------

The Federal Reserve policies slowly reduced the U.S. on the gold standard, making ever smaller fractions of gold and silver backing the U.S. paper dollar until in 1971 President Nixon allowed the Feds to take the U.S. off all gold backing of the dollar. In April 1933, all U.S. citizens were ordered by the President to turn in all their gold to the Federal Reserve bank. Andrew Jackson was right; he knew what the bankers were up to, a plan to steal the people's wealth!

In 1913, the U.S. government ratified the 16th Amendment to begin the progressive income tax on U.S. citizen's personal income. Prior to that, no U.S. citizen paid taxes on their personal income. 1913 was a great year for the banking elites and their paid off politicians in Washington, D.C. It was when the Federal Reserve Act was passed, and also when the progressive income taxation legislation was passed. The Fed created the Fiat dollar system where the dollar begins as a debt paper, a credit paper the U.S. government sells with a promise to pay, with interest, which they back by getting the funds out of the people's pockets through taxation! Since the U.S. dollar was to eventually be totally off the gold standard, they switched its backing to directly out of the people's pockets through the progressive income tax, and inflation.

Today's Fiat money system isn't that difficult to understand in light of it compared to the gold standard backing of the U.S. dollar. With a gold standard backing the dollar, the dollar's purchasing power is stable, everything else changes (like prices of labor and goods). That means the 'buying power' stays with the people, as their financial decisions is what influences prices through supply and demand. Got a bunch of widgets in the warehouse that aren't selling? Best make something the people want or need, or go out of business. The prices move up and down to reflect the people's consumer habits and needs. The bankers and politicians couldn't control a system like that, because the financial power was in the people's hands instead of theirs.

What the Fiat system is, is a creation of money 'out of thin air', not backed by anything except the U.S. government's promise to get the backing from the taxpayer's pockets. The word 'fiat' simply means a decree, like a king decreeing a certain policy. There's a finance reserve system setup by the Fed based on the old goldsmith rule of keeping a certain amount of gold reserves in the safe while lending out the majority of it, the main principle bankers still use today, and the Fed requires they keep a certain percentage in their vault called 'reserves'. This system allows the U.S. commercial banks to make bookkeeping entries to the good, creating dollars out of thin air, with every dollar from loans that are paid back to the bank. If average Joe citizen were to do that it would be called counterfeiting. This operation the Fed allows, is one of the greatest causes of the inflation of the U.S. dollar. The other great cause is bailouts, the Fed through Congress getting the Treasury to simply print up billions of dollars to pay off illegal debt, like what was paid to Wall Street bankers to cover their 'known' bad mortgage loan speculation (actually gambling debt). The Wall Streeters bought new mansions, sports cars, cocaine, prostitutes, etc., and when it was all over, they petitioned Congress to bail them out, threatening that it would destroy the U.S. economy if they were allowed to just go bankrupt, which is why the banks try to become as huge as possible in affecting the U.S. economy. They know that creates a pry bar against Congress to bail them out if needed. Who pays for their debt? We do, the U.S. taxpayer, through inflation of the dollar, which means a reduction of the buying power of the U.S. dollar.

The system doesn't stop there though, the politicians also use this Fiat bailout strategy to prop up whole foreign governments. The banks are directly involved in those loans to foreign countries. Interest income on loans afterall, is how the banks make their money. (Their being allowed to create money by a bookkeeping entry produces more opportunity for loans.) A poor foreign country will be given billions of dollars to get their economy, military, etc. going. And when that country needs help again, the bankers simply offer them a re-finance, politicians sending an order to print off more dollars to give them, the bankers handling the loan which charges interest, and the cycle perpetuates. Each time this happens, it reduces the buying power of the U.S. dollar through inflation of the dollar (throwing more dollars in circulation).

A good read on this is Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin.
 

Enoch111

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Bear in mind that those who pointed the finger at the Papacy as the great Antichrist were highly educated.
Whether or not they were highly educated is immaterial. They were DEAD WRONG, and Scripture proves it. All you have to do is read and study 2 Thessalonians 2.

No pope has ever claimed to literally be God. But that is exactly what the Antichrist will do when he sits in a future temple at Jerusalem.

It is just like the so-called highly educated *medical experts* today who are DEAD WRONG about Wuhan virus. They have been wrong since day one, but now they are deliberately misleading the public, while preventing people from access to highly effective HCQ.
 

Phoneman777

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This is hilarious. One does not need the Jesuits to teach Christians that a multitude of prophecies are to be fulfilled in the future. Including the prophecies pertaining to the Antichrist.
Antichrist is said to arise among the Ten Horns - the Ten Barbarian nations that arose out of the fallen fourth beast, the Roman Empire...and the Antichrist also continues running his mouth at the "time of the end" Judgment hour...which means it ain't a man, but a kingdom.
 

Brakelite

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It is unsurprising that those who rebelled sought justification for their rebellion...

The end of the thousand year reign of Christendom is a direct result of that rebellion..

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"


And now the stage is set, for the world to ultimately reject the Church, just as it rejected her Holy Husband..

The passion of the Church is at hand...

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!
With all due respect, that all makes perfect sense to you intellectually, but biblically and historically makes no sense at all. The reformers didn't rebel. They protested abuses of scripture and behavior with the church they loved and were educated in. Most of them were indeed highly educated Bible scholars. They weren't searching for reasons to ditch the church out of angst. They wanted to reform the church and bring it back to it's roots... Scripture. There protests were rejected. They were thrown out. That's on the church. Not them.
Your eschatological understanding of the 1000 years is strange to my ears and I can make neither head not tail of it. Perhaps you could explain it in more detail?

For what reasons did the reformers risk life and limb, (literally), in their damning accusations against the church which raised them? Nearly all the reformers were either priests, University professors, or other clergy, with no intentions of forming new churches, but reforming the one they loved and held dear. Yet here they are accusing the very institution which educated and confirmed them in their faith, of being the dreaded Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Why?

Was it revenge for being excommunicated? No, they were excommunicated for the most part because of the accusations. Was it the worst insult they could come up with because of a personal grudge? Hardly. Or perhaps, as this author believes and could expand on later, was it because they were serious students of the Bible and saw unmistakably the fulfilment of the many prophecies regarding Antichrist being played out perfectly before their very eyes?
 

Giuliano

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With all due respect, that all makes perfect sense to you intellectually, but biblically and historically makes no sense at all. The reformers didn't rebel. They protested abuses of scripture and behavior with the church they loved and were educated in. Most of them were indeed highly educated Bible scholars. They weren't searching for reasons to ditch the church out of angst. They wanted to reform the church and bring it back to it's roots... Scripture. There protests were rejected. They were thrown out. That's on the church. Not them.
Your eschatological understanding of the 1000 years is strange to my ears and I can make neither head not tail of it. Perhaps you could explain it in more detail?

For what reasons did the reformers risk life and limb, (literally), in their damning accusations against the church which raised them? Nearly all the reformers were either priests, University professors, or other clergy, with no intentions of forming new churches, but reforming the one they loved and held dear. Yet here they are accusing the very institution which educated and confirmed them in their faith, of being the dreaded Antichrist of prophetic scripture. Why?

Was it revenge for being excommunicated? No, they were excommunicated for the most part because of the accusations. Was it the worst insult they could come up with because of a personal grudge? Hardly. Or perhaps, as this author believes and could expand on later, was it because they were serious students of the Bible and saw unmistakably the fulfilment of the many prophecies regarding Antichrist being played out perfectly before their very eyes?
They loved the church they saw as being the Antichrist?
 

Brakelite

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Whether or not they were highly educated is immaterial. They were DEAD WRONG, and Scripture proves it. All you have to do is read and study 2 Thessalonians 2.
As it has been explained previously, it isn't an individual pope that is the Antichrist, but the system, the little horn, beast power he presides over. So it is the system, the horn (which in scripture are all symbolic of nations/political entities/power systems) that claims through it's legal enactments and proclamations to be God. Sitting in the temple of God... The church... And claiming the prerogatives of deity. The antichrist itself is a counterfeit Christ. Jesus proclaimed His threefold ministry in Matthew 12:6,41,42. He proclaimed Himself as the ultimate Priest, Prophet, and King, and rightly so.
However, the Catholic Church also claims, falsely, these very same prerogatives, and claims them to be her universal right. By claiming to be the sole arbiter and interpreter of scripture, by claiming the power to forgive sin, by claiming universal authority in religious matters, (thus subverting Christ’s ministry of High priest); by claiming the power to change God’s times and laws,and claiming the sole right to speak upon the earth as God’s representative, and claiming the right to judge who does or does not enter the kingdom of God, (thus subverting role as Prophet), by claiming the right and seeking secular authority over all the earth,(thus subverting Christ’s role as King) the Catholic Church has indeed “opposed and exalted himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sits in the temple of God, (the church), showing himself that he is God.”

No pope has ever claimed to literally be God. But that is exactly what the Antichrist will do when he sits in a future temple at Jerusalem.
see above
 

Brakelite

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They loved the church they saw as being the Antichrist?
If course they did... It was the only shop in town. Where else were they to go? Forming a new church was unthinkable. The only option was to change the old. But the continuing stubborn refusal to hear and the determined penchant for killing anyone who objected, became a confirmation of their biblically sound conclusions. And when they themselves were turfed out and burnt... Hung... Imprisoned... Excommunicated... It was their followers, in residing to give up the truths being taught, that had no choice but to fellowship together and the resulting churches materialised almost by accident... Except it wasn't by accident. It was ordained of God. Truth had to be revealed.

Now one may think how we got to be discussing the Antichrist when this thread began discussing the future of the United States of America, and why I haven't complained about a change of topic. The reason for that is there is a connection. A close intimate one that shall be explained as we go along I'm sure.
 

n2thelight

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Antichrist is said to arise among the Ten Horns - the Ten Barbarian nations that arose out of the fallen fourth beast, the Roman Empire...and the Antichrist also continues running his mouth at the "time of the end" Judgment hour...which means it ain't a man, but a kingdom.

satan is the antichrist, the ten kings are supernatural,ie his angels
 

Brakelite

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My college economic text, and my Japanese economics instructor, both claimed to be teaching Keynesian economics, and basic principles of supply and demand from Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations - 1776). That's not really the type of economic system the United States has though, not since the New York banking elites took over control of U.S. monetary policy.

The banking elites even during the administration of Andrew Jackson sought to get control of U.S. monetary policy by eventually printing fiat paper money instead of staying on a gold standard. The NY banker Nicholas Biddle tried to politically destroy President Jackson through slander because Jackson wouldn't renew the national bank charter which created political control by bankers. Jackson was against the political control the bankers were trying to establish which had no Congressional oversight. Jackson knew what the bankers were up to and pushed for keeping the U.S. on a gold standard policy.

What ex-chairman of the board of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, said about the gold standard vs. the welfare statist's fiat paper money system, in later years after he retired he said he still believing in a gold standard:

---------------
"Under a gold standard, the amount of credit that an economy can support is determined by the economy’s tangible assets, since every credit instrument is ultimately a claim on some tangible asset. But government bonds are not backed by tangible wealth, only by the government’s promise to pay out of future tax revenues, and cannot easily be absorbed by the financial markets. A large volume of new government bonds can be sold to the public only at progressively higher interest rates. Thus, government deficit spending under a gold standard is severely limited. The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. They have created paper reserves in the form of government bonds which — through a complex series of steps — the banks accept in place of tangible assets and treat as if they were an actual deposit, i.e., as the equivalent of what was formerly a deposit of gold. The holder of a government bond or of a bank deposit created by paper reserves believes that he has a valid claim on a real asset. But the fact is that there are now more claims outstanding than real assets. The law of supply and demand is not to be conned. As the supply of money (of claims) increases relative to the supply of tangible assets in the economy, prices must eventually rise. Thus the earnings saved by the productive members of society lose value in terms of goods.

When the economy’s books are finally balanced, one finds that this loss in value represents the goods purchased by the government for welfare or other purposes with the money proceeds of the government bonds finance by bank credit expansion. In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists’ tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists’ antagonism toward the gold standard."
-----------------------

The Federal Reserve policies slowly reduced the U.S. on the gold standard, making ever smaller fractions of gold and silver backing the U.S. paper dollar until in 1971 President Nixon allowed the Feds to take the U.S. off all gold backing of the dollar. In April 1933, all U.S. citizens were ordered by the President to turn in all their gold to the Federal Reserve bank. Andrew Jackson was right; he knew what the bankers were up to, a plan to steal the people's wealth!

In 1913, the U.S. government ratified the 16th Amendment to begin the progressive income tax on U.S. citizen's personal income. Prior to that, no U.S. citizen paid taxes on their personal income. 1913 was a great year for the banking elites and their paid off politicians in Washington, D.C. It was when the Federal Reserve Act was passed, and also when the progressive income taxation legislation was passed. The Fed created the Fiat dollar system where the dollar begins as a debt paper, a credit paper the U.S. government sells with a promise to pay, with interest, which they back by getting the funds out of the people's pockets through taxation! Since the U.S. dollar was to eventually be totally off the gold standard, they switched its backing to directly out of the people's pockets through the progressive income tax, and inflation.

Today's Fiat money system isn't that difficult to understand in light of it compared to the gold standard backing of the U.S. dollar. With a gold standard backing the dollar, the dollar's purchasing power is stable, everything else changes (like prices of labor and goods). That means the 'buying power' stays with the people, as their financial decisions is what influences prices through supply and demand. Got a bunch of widgets in the warehouse that aren't selling? Best make something the people want or need, or go out of business. The prices move up and down to reflect the people's consumer habits and needs. The bankers and politicians couldn't control a system like that, because the financial power was in the people's hands instead of theirs.

What the Fiat system is, is a creation of money 'out of thin air', not backed by anything except the U.S. government's promise to get the backing from the taxpayer's pockets. The word 'fiat' simply means a decree, like a king decreeing a certain policy. There's a finance reserve system setup by the Fed based on the old goldsmith rule of keeping a certain amount of gold reserves in the safe while lending out the majority of it, the main principle bankers still use today, and the Fed requires they keep a certain percentage in their vault called 'reserves'. This system allows the U.S. commercial banks to make bookkeeping entries to the good, creating dollars out of thin air, with every dollar from loans that are paid back to the bank. If average Joe citizen were to do that it would be called counterfeiting. This operation the Fed allows, is one of the greatest causes of the inflation of the U.S. dollar. The other great cause is bailouts, the Fed through Congress getting the Treasury to simply print up billions of dollars to pay off illegal debt, like what was paid to Wall Street bankers to cover their 'known' bad mortgage loan speculation (actually gambling debt). The Wall Streeters bought new mansions, sports cars, cocaine, prostitutes, etc., and when it was all over, they petitioned Congress to bail them out, threatening that it would destroy the U.S. economy if they were allowed to just go bankrupt, which is why the banks try to become as huge as possible in affecting the U.S. economy. They know that creates a pry bar against Congress to bail them out if needed. Who pays for their debt? We do, the U.S. taxpayer, through inflation of the dollar, which means a reduction of the buying power of the U.S. dollar.

The system doesn't stop there though, the politicians also use this Fiat bailout strategy to prop up whole foreign governments. The banks are directly involved in those loans to foreign countries. Interest income on loans afterall, is how the banks make their money. (Their being allowed to create money by a bookkeeping entry produces more opportunity for loans.) A poor foreign country will be given billions of dollars to get their economy, military, etc. going. And when that country needs help again, the bankers simply offer them a re-finance, politicians sending an order to print off more dollars to give them, the bankers handling the loan which charges interest, and the cycle perpetuates. Each time this happens, it reduces the buying power of the U.S. dollar through inflation of the dollar (throwing more dollars in circulation).

A good read on this is Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin.
satan is the antichrist, the ten kings are supernatural,ie his angels
Ten angels grew out of the head of the fourth beast of Daniel 7?
 

Enoch111

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which means it ain't a man, but a kingdom.
Not so. Paul gives us the truth of the matter:
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thess 2:3,4)

"That Man of Sin" cannot possibly be a kingdom or a system. As for the ten horns, it is the "Little Horn" our of the ten horns that you should focus on -- the Arch Blasphemer of God. A kingdom does not have eyes and a mouth.


I [Daniel] considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another Little Horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. (Dan 7:8)
 

Brakelite

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As far as the future of the USA is concerned, one writer expressed it like this...
When our nation, in its legislative councils, shall enact laws to bind the consciences of men in regard to their religious privileges, enforcing Sunday observance, and bringing oppressive power to bear against those who keep the seventh-day Sabbath, the law of God will, to all intents and purposes, be made void in our land, and national apostasy will be followed by national ruin.— LDE 133.5
Now some may object to this claiming it impossible. You may not be aware however but an earnest and concerted attempt to accomplish precisely the above was made in the late 1800s and an appeal made to the Senate by those opposing the bill averted the crisis.
Some of you may think that in these times of trouble such a move today would be a great idea. In fact, there are advocates for this operating in US politics now, and the Catholic Church would dearly love to bring such a state of affairs about for she is doing this in Europe as we speak.
 

Giuliano

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If course they did... It was the only shop in town. Where else were they to go? Forming a new church was unthinkable. The only option was to change the old. But the continuing stubborn refusal to hear and the determined penchant for killing anyone who objected, became a confirmation of their biblically sound conclusions. And when they themselves were turfed out and burnt... Hung... Imprisoned... Excommunicated... It was their followers, in residing to give up the truths being taught, that had no choice but to fellowship together and the resulting churches materialised almost by accident... Except it wasn't by accident. It was ordained of God. Truth had to be revealed.

Now one may think how we got to be discussing the Antichrist when this thread began discussing the future of the United States of America, and why I haven't complained about a change of topic. The reason for that is there is a connection. A close intimate one that shall be explained as we go along I'm sure.
Did they have the authority to change it? Obviously not, so they rebelled at authority. Then after rebelling, they began to defame the same church they had claimed to love.
 
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Brakelite

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Did they have the authority to change it?
They were appealing to those responsible for the bad behavior to change their own behavior and practice. Some of that behavior was based on bad tradition. The authority lies with God ultimately and the reformers were acting on His motivation to call upon the church to repent. You sound like the Pharisees who challenged Jesus.. Who gave you authority to do these things?

Obviously not, so they rebelled at authority
No, it was the church that had rebelled the against God's authority. The reformers were calling them back into line. It was the church that had rebelled.
 

Davy

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As far as the future of the USA is concerned, one writer expressed it like this...
When our nation, in its legislative councils, shall enact laws to bind the consciences of men in regard to their religious privileges, enforcing Sunday observance, and bringing oppressive power to bear against those who keep the seventh-day Sabbath, the law of God will, to all intents and purposes, be made void in our land, and national apostasy will be followed by national ruin.— LDE 133.5
Now some may object to this claiming it impossible. You may not be aware however but an earnest and concerted attempt to accomplish precisely the above was made in the late 1800s and an appeal made to the Senate by those opposing the bill averted the crisis.
Some of you may think that in these times of trouble such a move today would be a great idea. In fact, there are advocates for this operating in US politics now, and the Catholic Church would dearly love to bring such a state of affairs about for she is doing this in Europe as we speak.

That's tunnel vision. The events happening to the U.S. today is not from using Sunday as a Christian day of worship. Not observing Saturday as the Christian day of worship is not the reason why God's people are being attacked by Satan and his hosts which God Himself... has given control over this earth for the end.

Explain how it is that GOD Himself sends this great northern army upon His people for the end, and even calls them "My great army which I sent among you."

Joel 2:20-25
20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.

21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.
22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.

KJV