So what's the future for the USA?

[Davy]

It is unsurprising that those who rebelled sought justification for their rebellion...

The end of the thousand year reign of Christendom is a direct result of that rebellion..

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"

And now the stage is set, for the world to ultimately reject the Church, just as it rejected her Holy Husband..

The passion of the Church is at hand...

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

That reasoning doesn't align with God's Word. Christ's Church is not causing the falling away happening to some today. Those who think like that are like the same idiots who say that guns kill people while omitting the fact that a human being had to pull the trigger!

Instead, it is the kind of thinking from the Socialists that have crept into many Church pulpits today. Some of those idiots even try to push the blame for Christ's crucifixion upon Christians! And some of my Christian brethren will actually believe those idiots! Those false preachers are not part of Christ's Church, they are an abomination, and they will be cast out when my Lord Jesus returns!

So any idea of a 1,000 year Church history, and then it's over, is really stupid. When Jesus died on the cross offering the remission of sins for those who believe, that finished His Work on the cross, forever. It never had, nor ever will, have a time limit!

 

[Philip James]

Hello Davy,

Christ's Church is not causing the falling away happening to some today

Christ's Church? No. But the sins of its members play a part..

"Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers"

-Origen

So any idea of a 1,000 year Church history, and then it's over, is really stupid

When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison.

He will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

Peace be with you!

 

[Phoneman777]

satan is the antichrist, the ten kings are supernatural,ie his angels

Well, the first Beast of Revelation 13 is synonymous with AntiChrist, right? Yet Scripture says a beast is a kingdom, which means the Antichrist is a kingdom...this rules out Satan, a man like Nikolai Carpathia, a supercomputer, etc.

“These great beasts, which are four, are four kings (a “king” without a “kingdom” is no king at all).

“The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom”.

 

[Phoneman777]

Not so. Paul gives us the truth of the matter:
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thess 2:3,4)

"That Man of Sin" cannot possibly be a kingdom or a system. As for the ten horns, it is the "Little Horn" our of the ten horns that you should focus on -- the Arch Blasphemer of God. A kingdom does not have eyes and a mouth.

I [Daniel] considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another Little Horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. (Dan 7:8)

The Little Horn is the AntiChrist...the Beast is the AntiChrist...the Woman Riding the Beast is the Antichrist...but the Man Of Sin is not symbolic of the Antichrist, even though the characteristics of every one of them are identical to each other respectively?

 

[Giuliano]

They were appealing to those responsible for the bad behavior to change their own behavior and practice. Some of that behavior was based on bad tradition. The authority lies with God ultimately and the reformers were acting on His motivation to call upon the church to repent. You sound like the Pharisees who challenged Jesus.. Who gave you authority to do these things?


No, it was the church that had rebelled the against God's authority. The reformers were calling them back into line. It was the church that had rebelled.

I would not compare the two situations. I think Martin Luther was right about many things. Before he rebelled, I think he was a godly man. I can believe God wanted to use him to reform the things that needed changing. If he had remained inside the Catholic Church, I believe he could have accomplished great good. He was impatient first of all, and he allowed himself to be seduced by the secular princes of Germany who had financial reasons for wanting to rebel against Rome. Let us remember that some of the wrong things the Catholic Church had been doing were thought necessary by the Popes because the German princes withheld money from Rome.

Jesus never taught rebellion. He never sought to overthrow the authority of the High Priest or the Sanhedrin. Indeed, he told people to obey the Sanhedrin while telling them not to behave like some of them. Jesus was content to let things play out. Luther was not. Luther did not have faith in God. He believe he had to do something himself. Jesus did not feel he had to rebel or to use force to make sure God's plan succeeded. He did not rebel against either the High Priest or Roman authority. If they wanted to kill him, so be it -- he allowed it. That was scarcely Luther's attitude. Luther saw things as out of control, as if God was not still on His Throne. God seemed to have no plan and needed men to rebel against the very church Luther once believed had been established by Gdo.

I also am not like the Pharisees because they asked Jesus that when he was doing nothing to undermine their authority.

When authority errs, it is not the duty or right of people not in authority to correct them using force or by rebelling. David did not rebel against Saul. He refused to lift his hand against him. Saul had rebelled against God and Samuel had told Saul what God's judgement was. Yet David called Saul God's anointed and was not tempted to kill him even though Saul was trying to kill him. Saul was brought down, not by godly men, but by ungodly ones. Similarly the ungodly Pharisees who conspired to have Jesus killed were brought down about 40 years later by ungodly men. Jesus did not rebel and did not teach his followers to rebel. The entire system of animal sacrifices and human priests came crashing down without a godly man lifting a finger.

A house divided against itself cannot stand. God does not use His servants to rebel against His other servants. Godly men do not use physical force against any of God's other servants, not even when they stray badly.

Look at the errors in doctrine introduced by Luther and others when they sought to justify their rebellion. They devised new doctrines never heard of before. Christianity became even more confused and divided, more subject to errors proliferating. Every man and his brother imagined they were ordained by God to establish new churches; and in this confusion that reminds me of the confusion of tongues at the Tower of Babel, they claimed the Bible as their authority. How odd. That was a new idea, to be sure; and it led to confusion as soon as they tried it out. Luther and Zwingli both claimed to believe in sola scriptura -- so they said anyway -- but they found they couldn't agree. Either one of them was wrong, or both were. It's clear they couldn't both be right.

What do we see today in the USA? I see Protestants still claiming to be led by the Bible with their various sects and factions. Each claims to be right. Many of the Protestant leaders have been seduced by our government. It started under Reagan and has become worse over time. Today they flock to Washington to get money from the government. The Catholics want money and favors too, but there are limits to how much they will bend to get the money and favors. Some extreme Protestants cannot flatter Donald Trump enough. It is close to idolatry. They say Trump is God's annointed one and concoct theories about how he will have the Temple rebuilt so there will be animal sacrifices again. On and on their theorizing and alleged prophesying goes. Meanwhile they are like pigs at the trough, craving money and influence from the President.

How do you define the word "whore"? I say by deeds. Today in the USA it's extreme Protestants willing to play the whore. They spread their legs for Presidents, giving them whatever they want by telling their followers how to vote . . . and taking money for it. Maybe when the Catholic Church was the main player in the West, we could call her the Whore of Babylon when she collaborated with governments; but today it's even more like Babylon with more confusion of tongues within Protestantism and more spreading of the legs. Let's also not forget the Orthodox Church; and especially today the Russian Orthodox Church which is now Putin's obedient prostitute.

 

[Philip James]

and he allowed himself to be seduced by the secular princes of Germany who had financial reasons for wanting to rebel against Rome.

Hello G,

Indeed. Did the princes not use Luther (and others) to justify breaking their oaths and reneging on their obligations?
If this wasn't a fulfillment of :

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"

Then I don't know what could be.

Now what else can be done but rebel when unjustly treated by those with (legitimate) authority?

For whenever anyone bears the pain of unjust suffering because of consciousness of God, that is a grace.

But what credit is there if you are patient when beaten for doing wrong? But if you are patient when you suffer for doing what is good, this is a grace before God.

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example that you should follow in his footsteps

Peace be with you!

 

[Brakelite]

I would not compare the two situations. I think Martin Luther was right about many things. Before he rebelled, I think he was a godly man. I can believe God wanted to use him to reform the things that needed changing. If he had remained inside the Catholic Church, I believe he could have accomplished great good. He was impatient first of all, and he allowed himself to be seduced by the secular princes of Germany who had financial reasons for wanting to rebel against Rome. Let us remember that some of the wrong things the Catholic Church had been doing were thought necessary by the Popes because the German princes withheld money from Rome.

Jesus never taught rebellion. He never sought to overthrow the authority of the High Priest or the Sanhedrin. Indeed, he told people to obey the Sanhedrin while telling them not to behave like some of them. Jesus was content to let things play out. Luther was not. Luther did not have faith in God. He believe he had to do something himself. Jesus did not feel he had to rebel or to use force to make sure God's plan succeeded. He did not rebel against either the High Priest or Roman authority. If they wanted to kill him, so be it -- he allowed it. That was scarcely Luther's attitude. Luther saw things as out of control, as if God was not still on His Throne. God seemed to have no plan and needed men to rebel against the very church Luther once believed had been established by Gdo.

I also am not like the Pharisees because they asked Jesus that when he was doing nothing to undermine their authority.

When authority errs, it is not the duty or right of people not in authority to correct them using force or by rebelling. David did not rebel against Saul. He refused to lift his hand against him. Saul had rebelled against God and Samuel had told Saul what God's judgement was. Yet David called Saul God's anointed and was not tempted to kill him even though Saul was trying to kill him. Saul was brought down, not by godly men, but by ungodly ones. Similarly the ungodly Pharisees who conspired to have Jesus killed were brought down about 40 years later by ungodly men. Jesus did not rebel and did not teach his followers to rebel. The entire system of animal sacrifices and human priests came crashing down without a godly man lifting a finger.

A house divided against itself cannot stand. God does not use His servants to rebel against His other servants. Godly men do not use physical force against any of God's other servants, not even when they stray badly.

Look at the errors in doctrine introduced by Luther and others when they sought to justify their rebellion. They devised new doctrines never heard of before. Christianity became even more confused and divided, more subject to errors proliferating. Every man and his brother imagined they were ordained by God to establish new churches; and in this confusion that reminds me of the confusion of tongues at the Tower of Babel, they claimed the Bible as their authority. How odd. That was a new idea, to be sure; and it led to confusion as soon as they tried it out. Luther and Zwingli both claimed to believe in sola scriptura -- so they said anyway -- but they found they couldn't agree. Either one of them was wrong, or both were. It's clear they couldn't both be right.

What do we see today in the USA? I see Protestants still claiming to be led by the Bible with their various sects and factions. Each claims to be right. Many of the Protestant leaders have been seduced by our government. It started under Reagan and has become worse over time. Today they flock to Washington to get money from the government. The Catholics want money and favors too, but there are limits to how much they will bend to get the money and favors. Some extreme Protestants cannot flatter Donald Trump enough. It is close to idolatry. They say Trump is God's annointed one and concoct theories about how he will have the Temple rebuilt so there will be animal sacrifices again. On and on their theorizing and alleged prophesying goes. Meanwhile they are like pigs at the trough, craving money and influence from the President.

How do you define the word "whore"? I say by deeds. Today in the USA it's extreme Protestants willing to play the whore. They spread their legs for Presidents, giving them whatever they want by telling their followers how to vote . . . and taking money for it. Maybe when the Catholic Church was the main player in the West, we could call her the Whore of Babylon when she collaborated with governments; but today it's even more like Babylon with more confusion of tongues within Protestantism and more spreading of the legs. Let's also not forget the Orthodox Church; and especially today the Russian Orthodox Church which is now Putin's obedient prostitute.

Much of this i can fully agree with. But by scrutinizing the trees I think you've lost sight of the big picture. I shall elaborate I'm a later post.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... An ancient Chinese proverb. " may you live in interesting times"

For me, one of the problems with this "Topic" is the title. We asked what the future is for the U.S., without having assessed ANY Bible Prophecy. It's all speculation based upon supposition.

Maybe people PREFER not to know what the future actually holds, but it's creating a shortage of sand.
Bobby Jo

 

[Timtofly]

For awhile, it was about the futures of America.

 

[Brakelite]

For me, one of the problems with this "Topic" is the title. We asked what the future is for the U.S., without having assessed ANY Bible Prophecy. It's all speculation based upon supposition.

Maybe people PREFER not to know what the future actually holds, but it's creating a shortage of sand.
Bobby Jo

Actually, it is about prophecy. It's all about prophecy.

KJV Revelation 13
A Beast from the Earth
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

[bbyrd009]

So what's the future for the USA?

10So Samuel spoke all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king.
11He said, “This will be the manner of the king who will reign over you: He will take your sons and appoint them to his own chariots and horses, to run in front of his chariots.
12He will appoint some for himself as commanders of thousands and of fifties, and others to plow his ground, to reap his harvest, to make his weapons of war, and to equip his chariots.
13And he will take your daughters to be perfumers, cooks, and bakers.
14He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his servants.
15He will take a tenth of your grain and grape harvest and give it to his officials and servants.
16And he will take your menservants and maidservants and your best cattleb and donkeys and put them to his own use.
17He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves.
18When that day comes, you will beg for relief from the king you have chosen, but the LORD will not answer you on that day.”

 

[n2thelight]

Ten angels grew out of the head of the fourth beast of Daniel 7?

When satan gets kicked out of Heaven,he will heal the one world government ,that's when it changes to a one world religious system which again is supernatural

 

[Bobby Jo]

Actually, it is about prophecy. It's all about prophecy. ...

Yeah, not. If it were, you'd explain why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems; why the Lion is the Mouth, and who the Lion is; why the Leopard (actually a Tiger) is the Body, and who the Leopard is (actually a Tiger); why the Bear is the Feet, and who the Bear is; and what is the Beast, and who is the False Prophet.

But you have NO ANSWERS, and can't solve even the most simple Prophetic concepts. So instead you contrive a diversion from what you don't know to what you might imagine.

You can't even spell prophecy, but take heart, -- you have LOTS of company.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... a one world religious system which again is supernatural

Yeah, SUPERNATURAL IMAGINATION.

More SUPERNATURAL RUBBISH.
Bobby Jo

 

[n2thelight]

Well, the first Beast of Revelation 13 is synonymous with AntiChrist, right? Yet Scripture says a beast is a kingdom, which means the Antichrist is a kingdom...this rules out Satan, a man like Nikolai Carpathia, a supercomputer, etc.

“These great beasts, which are four, are four kings (a “king” without a “kingdom” is no king at all).

“The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom”.

The first beast is a system(political)ie OWO,2nd beast is satan himself .The part you missing is that satan is all of them,depending on what role he's playing

Revelation 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is [shall come]."

This "beast" was in the Garden of Eden deceiving [beguiling] Eve; he is not here now, for he is in heaven accusing the saints before the throne of God, now. He [Satan] will ascend out of the bottomless pit, as we saw in Revelation 9:1, and 2, and "he will go to perdition", following the judgment at the end of the Millennium kingdom age. Friend, "he" spoken of here, is Satan, and don't let any one tell you any different. Satan is the "son of perdition" as recorded in II Thessalonians 2:1-4, and he will be the first Christ to come at the end of this earth age.

"Perdition" means to "perish", and only Satan has had that sentence passed on him at this time. We are told that those "whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world", [that first earth age], will wonder, or follow after Satan. They fell in the first earth age, and they will also fall in this earth age. Those of who were chosen in that first earth age stood against Satan then, and they will also stand now. They are God's elect.

When the last of the elect, and the 144,000 of Israel are sealed, then Satan will arrive as the Antichrist. This age is a repeat of the first earth age. Now, what about the other Christians? They will follow false doctrine, and go into Satan's camp. The deception will cover the whole earth, yet the truth is in your hands to forewarn those around you in this generation.

There will be no equal to the deceptions that are going to come, in the history of all mankind. Yet the sermons of today are full of nonsense, with no sense of urgency given even as this great hour of deception is at our doorstep. The Church sleeps, while the Kenites steal the sheep.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The first beast is a system(political)ie OWO,2nd beast is satan himself . ...

You gotta laugh at the nonsense. A blanket claim (OWO) is made without ANY explanation as to the Lion/Leopard/Bear attributes, or the Horns & Diadems; or the fact that there are SEVEN Diadems in Rev. 12, but TEN Diadems in Rev. 13; and that apparently the False Prophet is "satan himself".

What a load of barnyard.
Bobby Jo

 

[n2thelight]

You gotta laugh at the nonsense. A blanket claim (OWO) is made without ANY explanation as to the Lion/Leopard/Bear attributes, or the Horns & Diadems; or the fact that there are SEVEN Diadems in Rev. 12, but TEN Diadems in Rev. 13; and that apparently the False Prophet is "satan himself".

What a load of barnyard.
Bobby Jo

And I gotta laugh at people with eyes but can't see,all good though, as,that's the reason for the strong delusion God will send.

 

[Keraz]

For awhile, it was about the futures of America.

I posted the Bible truth about the USA in #19.
Of course it got ignored, as what the Prophetic Word actually says is anathema to all who have already decided what they want God to do. Bad luck for everyone who fails to understand the truth of God's Plans.

 

[Timtofly]

I posted the Bible truth about the USA in #19.
Of course it got ignored, as what the Prophetic Word actually says is anathema to all who have already decided what they want God to do. Bad luck for everyone who fails to understand the truth of God's Plans.

Well, perhaps when New Zealand starts moving up into Asia, in seal 6th, it may be more enjoyable as a roller coaster ride than being killed in the 4th seal.

 

[Davy]

Hello Davy,



Christ's Church? No. But the sins of its members play a part..

"Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers"

-Origen



When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison.

He will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

Peace be with you!

What 1,000 years? We aren't in any 1,000 year period for the Church. If you're talking about Christ's 1,000 years reign of Rev.20, that period is still future, yet to come, and doesn't begin until His de facto return to this earth.


The following events of Christ and His elect reigning with that rod of iron over ALL nations has not happened yet today...

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, "Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
KJV

Rev 2:25-27
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
KJV

Ps 2:7-9
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, 'Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.'
KJV