Sola Scriptura

[Mungo]

Those who reject Sola Scripture announce plainly their unbelief in God, and make the incorruptible Word of God like unto the corruptible traditions of men, so that God needs to edit His Word, because He didn't get it right the first time around.

You set up a straw man to knock down.
Rejecting Sola Scriptura does not mean "their unbelief in God", nor "make the incorruptible Word of God like unto the corruptible traditions of men." It just states that not all of God's words are written down in scripture, as scripture itself clearly states - as BreadOfLife has already shown (see post #204 for example).

 

[robert derrick]

You set up a straw man to knock down.
Rejecting Sola Scriptura does not mean "their unbelief in God", nor "make the incorruptible Word of God like unto the corruptible traditions of men." It just states that not all of God's words are written down in scripture, as scripture itself clearly states - as BreadOfLife has already shown (see post #204 for example).

Then you have a different view from the one I responded to.

Or do you?

Have the Scriptures written from Genesis 1:1 - Rev 22:21, in any way been changed or corrected by God, through other men after John, since they were first written by His prophets and apostles?

Are all the writings from Moses to John in fact Scripture of God and all true of God. No errors of men written at all.

Anything other than yes/no is no answer here. This is not a trick question. It is a challenge to take a stand one way or the other. Any honest child would answer it yes or no.

Whether things were added by God later after John wrote Revelation is a separate question.

We are talking specifically about a statement that God has corrected and changed any Scriptures of the Bible, since it was first written by Moses in Genesis and then lastly by John In Revelation.

 

[David in NJ]

You set up a straw man to knock down.
Rejecting Sola Scriptura does not mean "their unbelief in God", nor "make the incorruptible Word of God like unto the corruptible traditions of men." It just states that not all of God's words are written down in scripture, as scripture itself clearly states - as BreadOfLife has already shown (see post #204 for example).

Dear mungo, I would agree that rejecting Sola Scriptura 'does not mean people are not searching for God.'

However, no one comes to God apart from SOLA SCRIPTURA - this is 100% Provable.

 

[robert derrick]

Dear mungo, I would agree that rejecting Sola Scriptura 'does not mean people are not searching for God.'

However, no one comes to God apart from SOLA SCRIPTURA - this is 100% Provable.

I did not say they were not seeking God. Plenty seek God zealously and find Him not, because they seek Him not by faith in His Word only, and are more than willing to believe things about God through other things, that His Word does not agree with with:

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Rom 10:3)

They were not Sola Scriptura, and so they were ignorant of God and His righteousness, and were instead establishing their own righteousness as that of God, by believing other things apart from Scripture of God. They sought Him not by faith in His Word, but by believing traditions of men apart from His Word. (Rom 9:32)

I said, as you, that if they are seeking God apart from Sola Scriptura, then they are attempting to climb up another way:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

The door opened to heaven and the Father is the Word of God in the flesh.

Sola Scriptura hears the voice of the true Shepherd only, as heard and plainly known through His Word written in the flesh: Scripture.

 

[Brakelite]

for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath

We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi! (Apostolic Letter, Dies Domini, Pope John Paul II, 1998 – para 18).

The observance of the Sabbath was to be abrogated at the same time as the other Hebrew rites and ceremonies, that is, at the death of Christ.

Thank you for all of the above. If I were to take this case to court, your posts would be all the evidence I need to prove why scripture is the only safe foundation for truth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Scripture speaks for itself.
Expressly Inspired by God.

If you think express reliance on Scripture is a fallacy or unreliable...
That is your choice, and you have revealed your choice.

Instead of demanding people prove to you, what they chose....Why not PROVE your choice of men or demons inspiration is greater that Gods Himself?

2 Tim 3:
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And yet NEITHER of these verses states that Scripture is our "SOLE" Authority.
As I have shown repeatedly - Scripture itself puts Sacred Tradition right ON PAR with Scriptural Authority (2 Thess. 2:15).

EPIC fail . . .

 

[David in NJ]

I did not say they were not seeking God. Plenty seek God zealously and find Him not, because they seek Him not by faith in His Word only, and are more than willing to believe things about God through other things, that His Word does not agree with with:

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Rom 10:3)

They were not Sola Scriptura, and so they were ignorant of God and His righteousness, and were instead establishing their own righteousness as that of God, by believing other things apart from Scripture of God. They sought Him not by faith in His Word, but by believing traditions of men apart from His Word. (Rom 9:32)

I said, as you, that if they are seeking God apart from Sola Scriptura, then they are attempting to climb up another way:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

The door opened to heaven and the Father is the Word of God in the flesh.
Sola Scriptura hears the voice of the true Shepherd only, as heard and plainly known through His Word written in the flesh: Scripture.

You said: Sola Scriptura hears the voice of the true Shepherd only, as heard and plainly known through His Word written in the flesh: Scripture

This statement is a declaration of war against the 'god of this world' and his many lies = religion.

This statement many will come to attack, deride, accuse, devalue and bring to question from human authority.

 

[David in NJ]

And yet NEITHER of these verses states that Scripture is our "SOLE" Authority.
As I have shown repeatedly - Scripture itself puts Sacred Tradition right ON PAR with Scriptural Authority (2 Thess. 2:15).

EPIC fail . . .

Dear member breadolife, We, who believe, must first start with truth = God's Word is Truth.

You reject: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

This is the foundation for TRUTH - don't reject, place your COMPLETE trust in upon Him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Look, are you cracking jokes here - because you have me laughing - funny things people say get me laughing.

So here is the real deal - The Eternal God He has this question for you:
Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord,
Or as His counselor has informed Him?
With whom did He consult and who gave Him understanding?
And who taught Him in the path of justice and taught Him knowledge,
And informed Him of the way of understanding? Isaiah 40: 13-14

Here is the answer to God's Own Question
Every word of God is flawless
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30: 5-6

Sooooo, instead of "laughing" - try coming up with a BIBLICAL defense for Sola Scriptura.

Why is it that ALL of you are screaming about the idea that Scripture is our "SOLE" Authority - yet NONE of you can mount a Scriptural defense for it? You've had 500 years to do this and have FAILED every time . . .

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

And yet NEITHER of these verses states that Scripture is our "SOLE" Authority.
As I have shown repeatedly - Scripture itself puts Sacred Tradition right ON PAR with Scriptural Authority (2 Thess. 2:15).

Where is the scripture that says any specific physical "church" is an authority?

Then where is the RCC specified?

Your own words destroy your false premise as i pointed out before. Revisionist twisting to suit an agenda.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dear member breadolife, We, who believe, must first start with truth = God's Word is Truth.
You reject: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
This is the foundation for TRUTH - don't reject, place your COMPLETE trust in upon Him.

Another EPIC fail . . .

We Catholics not only believe in God's Word - we taught the world about it.
The difference is that we understand what the Bible says about His Word - that it is NOT limited by what is written.

Which part of the following are you having difficulty with??
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

 

[David in NJ]

Sooooo, instead of "laughing" - try coming up with a BIBLICAL defense for Sola Scriptura.

Why is it that ALL of you are screaming about the idea that Scripture is our "SOLE" Authority - yet NONE of you can mount a Scriptural defense for it? You've had 500 years to do this and have FAILED every time . . .

Now you have me laughing again - Most on here have clearly shown to you God's Authority in Heaven and on Earth = Sola Scriptura.

Now pay attention because here it is =
I will worship toward Your holy temple, And praise Your name For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your Word above all Your Name.
Psalm 138:2

PEACE in Christ alone

 

[MatthewG]

Scripture is useful.
Scripture is good.
Scripture is also used to finding truth out about God.

Truth is important.
Dominion over peoples faith is a flaw caused by men.
Paul never sought to have dominion over peoples faith and how they decided to go about it; He did tell them the truth though (also in to add the context of all these scriptures was never written to us but to people that were written to and that of which the Gospels were given to).

You can have your opinion but it is your opinion which doesn't make right for everyone.

Question everything, and always pray and seek God for answers; and if anyone leads you down the path of hating others; correct them gently using the truth if they revile you just leave them in peace.

Always place your trust in God. Never in what man says.

Always check your bible and read it and do your own studying and hopefully that encourages you personally one reading this.

 

[Brakelite]

I have to repeat the following because you didn't address it the first time: "'לְתֹורָ֖ה וְלִתְעוּדָ֑ה אִם־לֹ֤א יֹֽאמְרוּ֙ כַּדָּבָ֣ר הַזֶּ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר אֵֽין־לֹ֖ו שָֽׁחַר' (To the law rather, and to the testimony. And if they speak not according to this word, they shall not have the morning light) (Is. 8:20). Are the words "Sola Scriptura" in this verse?" Where does Isaiah claim "Scripture is the final arbiter in doctrine, faith, and practice" in this verse? Do any verses regarding "wizards" or sorcery of any kind make mention of "ecclesiastical councils" and "theologians?"

I have to repeat the following because you didn't address it the first time: "Furthermore, the law and testimony spoke of in Is. 8:20 is the law and testimony given to Isaiah in verse Is. 8:16: "צוֹר, תְּעוּדָה; חֲתוֹם תּוֹרָה, בְּלִמֻּדָי" (Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples) which itself refers back to Is. 8:1-2: "וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֵלַי קַח-לְךָ גִּלָּיוֹן גָּדוֹל; וּכְתֹב עָלָיו בְּחֶרֶט אֱנוֹשׁ, לְמַהֵר שָׁלָל חָשׁ בַּז (And the Lord said to me: Take thee a great book, and write in it with a man's pen. Take sway the spoils with speed, quickly take the prey). וְאָעִידָה לִּי, עֵדִים נֶאֱמָנִים--אֵת אוּרִיָּה הַכֹּהֵן, וְאֶת-זְכַרְיָהוּ בֶּן יְבֶרֶכְיָהוּ" (And I took unto me faithful witnesses, Urias the priest, and Zacharias the son of Barachias). How does this context surrounding Is. 8:20 support Sola Scriptura?"

To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20.
KJV Psalms 119:97, 104
97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

We Catholics not only believe in God's Word - we taught the world about it.
The difference is that we understand what the Bible says about His Word - that it is NOT limited by what is written.

The dark ages, the crusades, the inquisitions and the list goes on.

Lots of people "taught the world"

More of that RCC false dogma

 

[BreadOfLife]

Where is the scripture that says any specific physical "church" is an authority?
Then where is the RCC specified?
Your own words destroy your false premise as i pointed out before. Revisionist twisting to suit an agenda.

Christ only built ONE Church, Einstein (Matt. 16:18, Eph. 4:5).

As for your other question . . .
Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The dark ages, the crusades, the inquisitions and the list goes on.
Lots of people "taught the world"
More of that RCC false dogma

And more of YOUR historical ignorance . . .

 

[David in NJ]

Scripture is useful.
Scripture is good.
Scripture is also used to finding truth out about God.

Truth is important.
Dominion over peoples faith is a flaw caused by men.
Paul never sought to have dominion over peoples faith and how they decided to go about it; He did tell them the truth though (also in to add the context of all these scriptures was never written to us but to people that were written to and that of which the Gospels were given to).

You can have your opinion but it is your opinion which doesn't make right for everyone.

Question everything, and always pray and seek God for answers; and if anyone leads you down the path of hating others; correct them gently using the truth if they revile you just leave them in peace.

Always place your trust in God. Never in what man says.

Always check your bible and read it and do your own studying and hopefully that encourages you personally one reading this.

You said: Paul never sought to have dominion over peoples faith and how they decided to go about it;

The Lord Jesus Christ did, in fact, declare dominion over all faiths around the world.

Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Christ only built ONE Church, Einstein (Matt. 16:18, Eph. 4:5).

and guess what church its not ( the RCC)

Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:

Which again is not the RCC

I'm glad we finally agree. I knew there was some vestige of correctness in you somewhere.

 

[David in NJ]

Christ only built ONE Church, Einstein (Matt. 16:18, Eph. 4:5).

As for your other question . . .
Acts 9:31 talks about how the Early Church grew throughout the region. The language used here describes the Catholic Church:
“Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee, and Samaria experienced peace and thus was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and in the encouragement of the Holy Spirit, the church increased in numbers.”

According to Strong’s Greek Concordance – which is used by Protestants AND Catholics alike – the verse is translated as:
“The true Church throughout all Judea . . .”

Here is the phrase in Greek:
η μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ ολης της ιουδαιας

The Catholic Church gets its name from the GREEK for “according to the whole” and “universal” - εκκλησια καθ ολης, which is pronounced “katah-holos”.

Εκκλησια (ekklesia) - A gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly; CHURCH
καθ (katah) - Through out, according to
ολης (holos) - All, whole, completely
"Kata-holos" = CATHOLIC.

TRUE = Christ only built One Church
That One True Church is His Body and His Body - no one and nothing else - not RCC, not Baptist, not Pentecostal, not Methodist, etc etc etc