Some good information for Dave

[Jane_Doe22]

Were you raised Mormon?

Addressed this question earlier--

I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 30+ years.

Whether or not a person was raised going to a church building (any church building) does not matter because what matters is the faith (the actual beliefs/actions) a person embraces.

I'm also just a huge theology nerd, and have thoroughly studied many other faiths over the last many years. Throughly studying = months of regularly walking into the building, sitting down, listening to sermons, chatting with believers about what they believing, opening first-hand materials and reading myself. If you want to ask me the last time I visited a service of X, feel free to ask.

 

[Dave L]

Addressed this question earlier--

So you were indoctrinated by Mormons?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So you were indoctrinated by Mormons?

I have sat through and participated in faith formation classes of ~8 different denotations. If you want to call that "indoctrinating", that's you choice of words.

 

[Dave L]

I have sat through and participated in faith formation classes of ~8 different denotations. If you want to call that "indoctrinating", that's you choice of words.

Were Mormons your first?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@justbyfaith , I'm going to be very blunt here: you are a persecutor. Quotes like these:

Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly...

The one persecuting me here, by claiming that I am persecuting Jane Doe, is simply not realizing that I am simply attempting to make sure that someone does not get deceived here.

I suppose that you can go into the realm of Mormonism, believing Jane Doe that the beliefs of Mormonism is what she says and not what is said about Mormonism from sources that are attempting to keep you from being deceived by entering into the realm of becoming Mormon and going through all the trouble of becoming an initial Mormon and then working your way up into the upper eschelons of the faith where you will be required to believe preposterous things in order to keep your standing...(and by that time you will have emotional reasons for wanting to keep your standing)...and then, if you are wise, you will reject Mormonism, having found out that it really does teach what you were warned that it does teach, and that you were deceived (lied to) when you were told that Mormonism really does not teach those things.

So, if I can save you the trouble of having gone through all of that (and there is also the possibility that if you enter into the initial stages of being a Mormon, you could swallow their lies whole), I feel that I will have done you a favour.

Are mockery and unbecoming of a disciple of Christ.
You continually assault my character solely based on what you *think* I believe, having never never actually listened to me or stepped foot into a church with me. You only know what you've been told via heresay-- which is not your fault and I do not blame you at all for it.

However, what is your choice is what you do with that information and do you learn more, that is your choice. I spent many hours completely openly explaining my beliefs to you, and readily addressing every question, only to be met with abuse from you. More attacks on character, accusation of dishonesty, mockery, bait-and-switch, "oh you're just saying that because you're defining words differently" and then ignoring my thorough explanations, and mocking my invitation "if you want me to elaborate more on any point" just ask. I do not blame you for originally getting bad info, but I do hold you accountable for your actions here.

You are a persecutor.

Now, I do forgive you, and let Christ decide your fate (after all, He is the Judge). But forgiveness does not mean a person should stay in abusive situation or that they are supposed to enjoy said abuse. Hence my stepping away from yourself after seeing the blind way you continue to abuse and persecute. I do pray for you, and only Christ can soften a heart.

 

[farouk]

A mysteriously wonderful collaboration

"I know not how the Spirit moves,
Convincing men of sin,
Revealing Jesus in the Word,
Creating faith in Him.

But I know Whom I have believed..."

 

[mjrhealth]

To @amadeus,

If @Jane_Doe22 knows that she has the truth, and that she is being persecuted for righteousness' sake;

Then it should not bother her that she is being persecuted; for the scripture declares that hers is the kingdom of heaven over it.

But if she is being persecuted for unrighteousness' sake, well, I can see why she would be bothered, because in that the statements that are being leveled against her beliefs (not her, mind you, but her beliefs) are based in truth; and that this means that she is not going to heaven for that she believes false doctrines that will keep her out of the kingdom.

There are few around here, so many pots calling the kettels black

 

[justbyfaith]

Mormonism is a cult. I am not persecuting you personally, @Jane_Doe22, but rather am attempting to deter people from following you into a bunch of lies.

So you do not need to forgive me because I have done nothing wrong; rather I am seeking to protect those who would be taken in by your soft sell of Mormonism; which, I will say again, is a cult.

And even if I am persecuting you, I am not persecuting you for righteousness' sake.

Rather, I am attempting to deter the sheep from drawing too near to the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, who comes in very subtly and with a martyr's complex type of approach so that people will pity her and come to her rescue.

So, I gather that you have taken me off of ignore; that is good, because much of the harshness in what I have been saying about you has been an attempt to get your attention once again.

However, I'm not sure where to go from here now that I do have it.

Except to tell you that I am praying for you that the Lord will open your eyes to the truth that Mormonism is a cult filled with lies and that you are being deceived by it even to the point where you will perish in the lake of fire if you continue to believe those lies.

 

[justbyfaith]

Pro 27:6, Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

 

[farouk]

Pro 27:6, Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Wholesome and solemn verse; good.

 

[justbyfaith]

Deu 4:29, But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Jer 29:13, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Jhn 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Gal 1:6, I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7, Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8, But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9, As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

This scripture was written in the 1st Century A.D. and therefore it excludes the faith of Mormonism which was given some 1600-1700 years later. It is also in the timeless word of the Lord so it is saying that the faith that was once delivered to the saints is the faith of Christianity as it was preached in the 1st Century.

That excludes Mormonism as a valid faith system.

@Jane_Doe22, this is not in persecution of you although it proves your faith system to be invalid.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Mormonism is a cult. I am not persecuting you personally, @Jane_Doe22, but rather am attempting to deter people from following you into a bunch of lies.

So you do not need to forgive me because I have done nothing wrong; rather I am seeking to protect those who would be taken in by your soft sell of Mormonism; which, I will say again, is a cult.

And even if I am persecuting you, I am not persecuting you for righteousness' sake.

Rather, I am attempting to deter the sheep from drawing too near to the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, who comes in very subtly and with a martyr's complex type of approach so that people will pity her and come to her rescue.

You *are* blindly persecuting me personally. A bunch of other people too, but also me here on this thread.
You are continuing to spread bad information, blind stereotypes, and encourage other to do that same.
None of this behavior is becoming of a disciple of Christ.

So, I gather that you have taken me off of ignore; that is good, because much of the harshness in what I have been saying about you has been an attempt to get your attention once again.

However, I'm not sure where to go from here now that I do have it.

Except to tell you that I am praying for you that the Lord will open your eyes to the truth that Mormonism is a cult filled with lies and that you are being deceived by it even to the point where you will perish in the lake of fire if you continue to believe those lies.

You have some options:
1) Continue persecuting and abusing me (which will permanently put you on 'ignore')
2) Ask questions and get your facts straight about what I actually believe
3) Just move on elsewhere in life.

But there is no option proselytize option.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Deu 4:29, But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Jer 29:13, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Jhn 14:6, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

2Co 11:3, But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4, For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Gal 1:6, I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7, Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8, But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9, As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

This scripture was written in the 1st Century A.D. and therefore it excludes the faith of Mormonism which was given some 1600-1700 years later. It is also in the timeless word of the Lord so it is saying that the faith that was once delivered to the saints is the faith of Christianity as it was preached in the 1st Century.

That excludes Mormonism as a valid faith system.

@Jane_Doe22, this is not in persecution of you although it proves your faith system to be invalid.

Again there is no option proselytize option. Right now you're just showing off how little you know about what I believe, with the same old "anti cult" arguments I've heard (and dissected) for decades.




PS- Gal 1 (the whole chapter) is one the most faith affirming chapters in scripture for me.

 

[mjrhealth]

You *are* blindly persecuting me personally. A bunch of other people too, but also me here on this thread.
You are continuing to spread bad information, blind stereotypes, and encourage other to do that same.
None of this behavior is becoming of a disciple of Christ.

You have some options:
1) Continue persecuting and abusing me (which will permanently put you on 'ignore')
2) Ask questions and get your facts straight about what I actually believe
3) Just move on elsewhere in life.

But there is no option proselytize option.

Whats it say about

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

so many doing things in His name and deceiving the many, just dont let your religion be the basis of your faith, we follow Christ not mens religion nor doctrines thats why He said

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

because they wont follow any one else, which is why He has so few...

 

[Dave L]

Whats it say about

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

so many doing things in His name and deceiving the many, just dont let your religion be the basis of your faith, we follow Christ not mens religion nor doctrines thats why He said

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

because they wont follow any one else, which is why He has so few...

But we have the "false Christ" problem Jesus warned against.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Whats it say about

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

so many doing things in His name and deceiving the many, just dont let your religion be the basis of your faith, we follow Christ not mens religion nor doctrines thats why He said

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

because they wont follow any one else, which is why He has so few...

Totally. Another great passage, that goes along with my earlier cited favorite Gal 1.

It is CHRIST we should be following. All of the arguing that people do on the forum (or other venues), trying to argue their way into "proving" they are right... that's just a dead end. We should follow CHRIST. Let us show Christ a window to His love.

 

[amadeus]

To @amadeus,

If @Jane_Doe22 knows that she has the truth, and that she is being persecuted for righteousness' sake;

Then it should not bother her that she is being persecuted; for the scripture declares that hers is the kingdom of heaven over it.

But if she is being persecuted for unrighteousness' sake, well, I can see why she would be bothered, because in that the statements that are being leveled against her beliefs (not her, mind you, but her beliefs) are based in truth; and that this means that she is not going to heaven for that she believes false doctrines that will keep her out of the kingdom.

Oh my friend, should we not be bothered when someone is persecuting us? Jesus was certainly bothered, not out of concern for his own flesh, but rather because of those who worked at offending anyone... even Him!

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" Matt 18:7

Jesus came to lay down his life and did, but this does not mean he enjoyed it! Do we suppose also that the "good" thief on the cross enjoyed the pain he underwent prior to dying even though he had a promise from Jesus' lips?

 

[amadeus]

@justbyfaith , I'm going to be very blunt here: you are a persecutor. Quotes like these:


Are mockery and unbecoming of a disciple of Christ.
You continually assault my character solely based on what you *think* I believe, having never never actually listened to me or stepped foot into a church with me. You only know what you've been told via heresay-- which is not your fault and I do not blame you at all for it.

However, what is your choice is what you do with that information and do you learn more, that is your choice. I spent many hours completely openly explaining my beliefs to you, and readily addressing every question, only to be met with abuse from you. More attacks on character, accusation of dishonesty, mockery, bait-and-switch, "oh you're just saying that because you're defining words differently" and then ignoring my thorough explanations, and mocking my invitation "if you want me to elaborate more on any point" just ask. I do not blame you for originally getting bad info, but I do hold you accountable for your actions here.

You are a persecutor.

Now, I do forgive you, and let Christ decide your fate (after all, He is the Judge). But forgiveness does not mean a person should stay in abusive situation or that they are supposed to enjoy said abuse. Hence my stepping away from yourself after seeing the blind way you continue to abuse and persecute. I do pray for you, and only Christ can soften a heart.

Amen!

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots." Luke 23:34

 

[Waiting on him]

Totally. Another great passage, that goes along with my earlier cited favorite Gal 1.

It is CHRIST we should be following. All of the arguing that people do on the forum (or other venues), trying to argue their way into "proving" they are right... that's just a dead end. We should follow CHRIST. Let us show Christ a window to His love.

Jane I have another question I know it’s totaly off topic but please give your simplest answer. If you were to pass today and awoke face to face with a Holy God and he said Jane what have you done that I should grant you entrance into my heaven. What would be your answer? Simple question, just tryin to understand what you believe