I am not ignoring the new messages. I skimmed over them, but probably will come back to this discussion in a couple days to study some things. Thanks!
Soul and Spirit
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That's purposely I would guess trying to do what we cannot do, or at least what we think that we cannot do. Maybe the cause is the selfishness of men undiminished. Being selfish as a child is one thing while being selfish as an adult is quite another.
"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17-18
Will we get such power... or do we already have it and simply seldom choose to use it? This is the selflessness that should be replacing our selfishness.
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 18:3
bbyrd009
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I would say ostensibly at least what cannot be done.
ha what does the little kid say lol
bb,,the scripture is actually from Luke 9:24/ Mark 8:35 and it says "..whoever shall save his life shall lose..." not soul...although in this sense it can be understood as your current soul as your current life...
It means that if one tries to go it their own way to think they can save their life/soul in the next one through their own will, they will fail. To save one's life and thus soul in the future life is to have the spirit of Christ spirit of the Spirit of the Father in this life and to walk in it, and therefore carry one's cross as he did...Like 9:23/ Mark 8:34...relying on his spirit or will with humility, faith and 'suffering'.....as the world hates a servant of God as a walker in Christ'...
Bless you bro,
APAK
g...I would not rush to a hasty conclusion here and say that I said, that today we attach ourselves to a spirit body after our passing away. Are you trying to convince yourself I did or force me to convince me that I did. Why do you converse this way...? can be a little frustrating g
Anyway, I never said that or meant that at all. So we do need a new body or vessel when Christ returns indeed per scripture.
You and I do not know was type of 'body' if any, we shall possess immediately after this life before the return of Christ. I was just entertaining those under the altar..... because you brought up this Rev verse quote only. These 'dead' to me were living with their spirit and with a type of body as living souls. It might not be their final vessels. It still means that their spirits returned to God, as you said. Again I never said any different, by my silence. The mystery is what does that really mean when one's spirit returns to God, and then what does he do with it at that point?
On your second comment, you said what I already said, just differently....blood refers to life as in the spirit...the spirit of God... blood though in this context is truly a metaphor for life or the spirit.. you don't think that you retain actual blood in a flesh body after death do you?
Bless you,
APAK
Phoneman777
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Souls aren't sleeping - they're DEAD.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Before you argue, "But that's spiritual death" know that when the Bible speaks of spiritual death, it puts it in the PRESENT TENSE: "She that liveth in pleasure IS DEAD while she liveth."
No such thing as eternal torment. The wages of sin are not eternal torment, they are death...eternal death...death from which there will be no resurrection.
Absolutely not. They are neither sleeping nor dead. They are very much awake and alive. Either in Heaven or in Hades. Souls and spirits are IMPERISHABLE.
Bodies are mortal, perishable, and corruptible. However God has guaranteed all true believers a glorious resurrection, in which they will receive perfect, immortal, glorious, glorified and *spiritual bodies*, unlike what we have at present, but resembling that of Christ after His resurrection and exaltation.
Phoneman777
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Rachel's "soul" was departing, which means "life" was departing her body...not some poltergeist. No such thing as a "soul" poltergeist leaving the body at death.
"Souls under the altar" is nothing more than unbridled imagery in what is perhaps the most symbolic book ever written, not literal poltergeists lying around under an altar. What was under the altar? DRAINED, DRIPPED DOWN BLOOD - which makes "souls under the altar" a fitting description, for Scripture says "the life is in the blood".
What the Bible DOES SAY in no uncertain terms is: "God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the Breath of Life and man BECAME a living soul."
Does it say God inserted a "soul" into the body? No.
Does it say the soul existed before it entered the body? No.
Does it speak anywhere of an "eternal, never dying soul"? No.
It says "man BECAME a living soul. A Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life, and at death when this union is broken, the spirit "returns to the God Who gave it" and the body "returns to the earth as it was". That simple.
"Souls under the altar" is nothing more than unbridled imagery in what is perhaps the most symbolic book ever written, not literal poltergeists lying around under an altar. What was under the altar? DRAINED, DRIPPED DOWN BLOOD - which makes "souls under the altar" a fitting description, for Scripture says "the life is in the blood".
What the Bible DOES SAY in no uncertain terms is: "God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the Breath of Life and man BECAME a living soul."
Does it say God inserted a "soul" into the body? No.
Does it say the soul existed before it entered the body? No.
Does it speak anywhere of an "eternal, never dying soul"? No.
It says "man BECAME a living soul. A Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life, and at death when this union is broken, the spirit "returns to the God Who gave it" and the body "returns to the earth as it was". That simple.
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Phoneman777
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The Spirit is imperishable because at the death of a creature, it "returns to the God Who gave it."
As for whether "souls" are imperishable, "All souls are Mine. The soul of the father to the soul of the son is Mine. The soul that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE." IOW, "it shall perish."
Phoneman777
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bbyrd009
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101G
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first thanks for the reply. let's get to last question first. the Life is in the blood. question, did God blow any breath of Life into the woman EVE? we hope you say no. so where did Eve get the breath of Life from?
Genesis 2:21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Genesis 2:22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man".
ok where is the blood located at? in the bone and in the flesh, for it is the Life there of. how do you think our offspring ... childeren get the breath of Life?
correct, 2 Corinthians 5:2 "For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2 Corinthians 5:3 "If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2 Corinthians 5:4 "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life".
our new bodied is "FROM" heaven not that we're going to get them in heaven but "FROM" heaven when the Lord Jesus returns. so now that since we will not be in heaven with the new bodies, something here on earth must be applied, or else why return to the EARTH for any resurrection? what's still here on earth that is needed to complete the resurrection when the Lord return? the soul. for when body (new body) meets spirit ... soul, the living soul emerges. those in Christ FIRST. for the apostle Peter said, by the Holy Ghost, Acts 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.(not David soul left, but Christ's).
Acts 2:32 "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 2:34 "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand".
well David, the man the body and soul is not in heaven, for david spirit is not his's but God's. as the apostle Paul said, those who sleep in Christ, or sleep in the Spirit, rises first. so that means David, and the rest is here on earth in Christ the Spirit. awating the Lord Jesus return just like all of the dead before and after him.
PICJAG.
ps,
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well Apak, you know me, I pursue the truth and don't comprise not one bit when it comes to the word of God. that's just the way I am, nothing personal, just being G. not agent G (M.I.B.)....
@101G I've decided not to entertain some of your incredible and delusional rants filled with tomes of self-important questions anymore, and your pursuits of cyclical highs, to mental self-grandeur. You love to feed off folk's well-intended comments and you abuse them, nearly every time. You decide what they actually said for them, as you do not ask them if that is what they meant, and then you run with them as your twisted truth of glory. Your a nut case mate....get some help..
Just look at this subject at hand for instance. It began with you responding to my post I addressed to someone else and you tell me I may be right or wrong concerning it.....associated with the title of this thread of the soul and spirit.
And then since you have not found ERROR yet, you must continue to fabricate trapping ideas and statements usually posed as a series of questions that are vague, disjointed, until you find a gotcha.
And look at the dribble I'm meant to be impressed by this time as your gotcha statements for me, ,..
as you said.... 'did God blow any breath of Life into the woman EVE?' 'and ok where is the blood located at? in the bone and in the flesh, for it is the Life there of. how do you think our offspring ... childeren get the breath of Life?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
Stop with the confusing and energy -draining posts. and slow down and write for understanding, so the receiver can understand you. And the receiver is not you! It is called a two-way discussion. And you can tell 'the others' of 'we' the same thing....
Bless you,
APAK
Just look at this subject at hand for instance. It began with you responding to my post I addressed to someone else and you tell me I may be right or wrong concerning it.....associated with the title of this thread of the soul and spirit.
And then since you have not found ERROR yet, you must continue to fabricate trapping ideas and statements usually posed as a series of questions that are vague, disjointed, until you find a gotcha.
And look at the dribble I'm meant to be impressed by this time as your gotcha statements for me, ,..
as you said.... 'did God blow any breath of Life into the woman EVE?' 'and ok where is the blood located at? in the bone and in the flesh, for it is the Life there of. how do you think our offspring ... childeren get the breath of Life?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
Stop with the confusing and energy -draining posts. and slow down and write for understanding, so the receiver can understand you. And the receiver is not you! It is called a two-way discussion. And you can tell 'the others' of 'we' the same thing....
Bless you,
APAK
101G
Well-Known Member
so we can take this as you cannot answer the question, nor do you know. if so you would have provided scripture to back up your statements. well we did backup our statements. this seperates the truth from lie.... the scriptures.@101G I've decided not to entertain some of your incredible and delusional rants filled with tomes of self-important questions anymore, and your pursuits of cyclical highs, to mental self-grandeur. You love to feed off folk's well-intended comments and you abuse them, nearly every time. You decide what they actually said for them, as you do not ask them if that is what they meant, and then you run with them as your twisted truth of glory. Your a nut case mate....get some help..
Just look at this subject at hand for instance. It began with you responding to my post I addressed to someone else and you tell me I may be right or wrong concerning it.....associated with the title of this thread of the soul and spirit.
And then since you have not found ERROR yet, you must continue to fabricate trapping ideas and statements usually posed as a series of questions that are vague, disjointed, until you find a gotcha.
And look at the dribble I'm meant to be impressed by this time as your gotcha statements for me, ,..
as you said.... 'did God blow any breath of Life into the woman EVE?' 'and ok where is the blood located at? in the bone and in the flesh, for it is the Life there of. how do you think our offspring ... childeren get the breath of Life?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
Stop with the confusing and energy -draining posts. and slow down and write for understanding, so the receiver can understand you. And the receiver is not you! It is called a two-way discussion. And you can tell 'the others' of 'we' the same thing....
Bless you,
APAK
now another chance to redeem yourself. study what is about to be said.
1. where did Eve get the breath of life from? answer, Adam. and he got if from God. just as Leviticus 17:11 states "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul". just as any other offspring come life ...... it comes from God through the parent, (this is why Eve said "I have gotten a man from God", but was not it her husban child?). well Eve breath came through Adam, supportive scripture. 1 Corinthians 11:11 "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 11:12 "For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God".
did you understand that apak? the Woman is "OF" the Man, (because she came out of him), but the Man is "BY" the Woman, (because he is through her). this is called Paternal Spiritual Multiplication, not the same as Spiritual addition in the ministry, when someone wins other people to Christ. like Paul did with his "son" Timothy, whom he had "BEGOTTEN" through the Gospel. understand Apak, God, (the LORD JESUS), is the author or the source of this all. that's why he is called FATHER. you should had know this apak.
are you understanding now?
PICJAG.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Enoch: Did you mean there are no spirits 6 feet under, only the decayed body of bones? one spirit attached + one body => one living soul. one fled spirit + one departed and decayed body => one dismantled soul =>commonly called a dead person.
APAK
That is correct APAK. There are no spirits wandering around in cemeteries and graveyards, or popping out of the ground six feet under. (Or sleeping peacefully in the soil as imagined by some).
As God said to Adam: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen 3:19)
So what is it that turns to dust? The human body (flesh, bones, and blood). The composition of the human body is:
Water 62%
Protein 16% (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen)
Fat 16% (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen)
Minerals 6%
Carbohydrates 1% (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen)
The soul and spirit are IMMATERIAL AND IMPERISHABLE. They are separated from the body upon death. Redeemed souls and spirits go to Heaven to be with Christ. Unredeemed souls and spirits go to Sheol/Hades to await their final judgment.
Even if we took all the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation and put them before you, you would not believe. As Abraham said to the Rich Man, they will not believe though one rose from the dead.
Enoch, I agree with the the first 2/3rd of your reply. And they I got confused as I thought you understood what the soul meant, because you said the soul is now imperishable.
You just said you agreed with me that the soul is dismantled and becomes a 'dead' soul when someone passes away - there is no longer any union of the spirit and body = not living. Now you say it does not 'die' and say it's immortal. What gives here...just saying. Maybe I just did not see it right..?
Maybe you meant that the spirit that fled upon death will eventually inhabit and attach itself to a new body and become a soul again - therefore it becomes a soul again and therefore it is immortal. And that for the 'saved' into a glorified body and for the 'others' into an infamous body. Not trying h to add to your words...just trying to understand a bit more..thanks
Bless you,
APAK
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Not the errors you propagate.
Your understanding of a soul and what it consist of like that of your belief in eternal torment as the wages of sin comes not from the word of God, but rather by and through the doctrines of men, i.e. the natural man, those not begotten of the spirit and therefore both ignorant and completely incapable of rightly comprehending the subject.
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