Soul vs SPIRIT

[Ritajanice]

◄ Romans 8 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Walking by the Spirit (Ezekiel 36:16–38; Galatians 5:16–26) 1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace,7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the fleshd cannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alivee because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the deadf will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you. Heirs with Christ 12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him. Future Glory (2 Corinthians 5:1–10) 18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. God Works in All Things (Ephesians 1:3–14) 28And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. 29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. More than Conquerors (Psalm 44:1–26) 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For Your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”g 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[rwb]

Your mind is not re-birthed, but your Spirit is born again, if that has happened.

Yes, our spirit is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, and for this reason our spirit must be born again! That happens when our MIND has been enlightened through His Spirit in us. Our mind must go from begin carnal and of this world, to spiritual and of heaven when our spirit/mind/heart/will/emotions have gone from darkness to the Light of Christ.

So, its the Holy Spirit IN us, who teaches us, via spiritual enlightenment, and that is so much more then understanding it mentally.
See, this that comes from God, as revelation, is "Spiritually Discerned" and that much more then figuring out info, mentally.

Where within believers does the Holy Spirit in us dwell? Is He not in our minds/hearts/will and emotions? If He is then our spirit has been born again, and HAS, not shall have, but HAS ETERNAL LIFE.

When an unbeliever reads the Bible, they get NOTHING, because that is their MIND trying to figure it out.

BINGO! Exactly, our MIND without the Spirit of Christ knows nothing! Our mind/heart/will/emotions come from spirit in us.

Mankind is born into this world natural, of the earth, possessing an outer body of flesh and bone, and an inner spirit that gives life to our body, the two together as long as life is present are "living souls."

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, our spirit is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, and for this reason our spirit must be born again! That happens when our MIND has been enlightened through His Spirit in us. Our mind must go from begin carnal and of this world, to spiritual and of heaven when our spirit/mind/heart/will/emotions have gone from darkness to the Light of Christ.

How is our mind enlightened through His Spirit in us...how does that happen?

How can our mind be enlightened before our spirit is birthed/ made alive... @rwb ?

Our mind must go from being carnal and of this world, to spiritual and of heaven....where is this in scripture please?

 

[rwb]

We are not born again mentally.
We are "born again Spiritually"., by the Holy Spirit of God, not by the mind or soul of God.

Why do we need to be born again of His Spirit? Is it not because our minds/hearts/wills and emotions are spiritually dead, and needing to be born again? A new heart and spirit God has put in those who are born of His Spirit. Not another or new life (soul) but a renewed heart, and spirit (mind).

 

[Ritajanice]

Why do we need to be born again of His Spirit? Is it not because our minds/hearts/wills and emotions are spiritually dead, and needing to be born again? A new heart and spirit God has put in those who are born of His Spirit. Not another or new life (soul) but a renewed heart, and spirit (mind).

Why do we need to be born again.

The word of God says.

We must be “ Born Again “ to see the Kingdom of God.

That’s why we need to be Born Again...that is the Living word of God.

John 3:1-21

English Standard Version

​

You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.[h]

For God So Loved the World​

16 “For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

 

[rwb]

There is another way to look at soul. Paul is using it as one part of a three part person. Mind, heart and body = Spirit, soul and body. Think of "soul music." That is emotional. It is at our heart. That is the way that Paul is using 'soul.'

I believe Paul understands that mankind is made of body + spirit and the two became a "living soul". Scripture often uses soul to speak of living, breathing beings. Because where life exists there exists a living soul.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Sprit is the real you, that has to be born again.
The Spirit is what goes to HELL if its not born again.

Good topic, just have a little problem with your theology ... a little tweeking needed.

When Adam and Eve sinned, something died on that day. Their spirits died. Their spiritual relationship/unity/ connection to God was severed. So we are all born with a dead spirit, like a cell phone without a battery. Does our spirit still exist? Or is it just empty? Doesn’t matter, it does not function, like a dead battery in a cell phone.
Since the Spirit is dead, non-functional in the unbeliever, when they die, their spirit does not go to Hades. What would be the purpose, it's already dead. What does go to Hades is the soul, the person's invisible self: mind, will emotions. They are consciously aware.
Our spirit is made alive when we are born again, then later, that goes to heaven.
The Spirit then is the purified person, separate from the fleshly stuff.

 

[rwb]

How is our mind enlightened through His Spirit in us...how does that happen?

How can our mind be enlightened before our spirit is birthed/ made alive... @rwb ?

Our enlightened minds when we are born again of Christ's Spirit are first given to understand the Gospel of Christ. This through the message about Christ and the power of His Spirit opening our minds and hearts so that we can know/believe with spiritual eyes and ears that we have been born again. After re-birth we have been taken from spiritual death/darkness to spiritual life/Light, and now have a desire for Christ and seek to know Him more and more. The more we seek for Christ through His Word, the more spiritual understanding we will have. If we seek Him with all our hearts, minds and souls, that is with both new spirit and life, we will find Him and come to a closer, and more meaningful relationship with our Lord through prayer and study.

 

[Behold]

The mind of the flesh would be of someone under the law,

The mind is just the mind.

Its not the born again Spirit.

 

[Behold]

I agree with most of what you said, except adding the 'A' to say that God is A Spirit. This accurately describes God's nature as being spiritual. However more is implied by excluding the 'A', as 'Spirit' describes his being as the medium in which he and others dwell. Like he is both the house and the person in the house. Granted this doesn't make sense from a physical perspective but conventional reasoning may not apply to the spiritual.

The reason that real bibles present the verse as..

"God is A Spirit".. vs bibles with issues, that post the verse as "God is Spirit"..

So........Why is "God is A Spirit""" so critically important to find in a bible and in your theology?

Its because there is more than one type of spirit.

There is the UN-Holy Spirit. There are Demonic Spirits.

So, if the Bible wrongly teaches..>"God is Spirit", vs "A" Spirit, then that junk bible, is not making the divine distinction between.....

A.) = The Spirit in the DEVIL and the HOLY Spirit that is "God is A Spirit"

This has to be in the bible or this particular version is teaching that the Devil's spirit is the same as God's, by teaching that "God is Spirit".

No.
God is the Holy Spirit, = "God is A Spirit" and that is not a demonic spirit, or the one found in SATAN.

 

[Ritajanice]

Our enlightened minds when we are born again of Christ's Spirit are first given to understand the Gospel of Christ. This through the message about Christ and the power of His Spirit opening our minds and hearts so that we can know/believe with spiritual eyes and ears that we have been born again. After re-birth we have been taken from spiritual death/darkness to spiritual life/Light, and now have a desire for Christ and seek to know Him more and more. The more we seek for Christ through His Word, the more spiritual understanding we will have. If we seek Him with all our hearts, minds and souls, that is with both new spirit and life, we will find Him and come to a closer, and more meaningful relationship with our Lord through prayer and study.

Thanks for voicing your opinion on the matter.

 

[rwb]

Thanks for voicing your opinion on the matter.

Do you believe it is only my opinion, or is it Biblical truth?

 

[Ritajanice]

Do you believe it is only my opinion, or is it Biblical truth?

There was nothing biblical in your post.

Like everyone else, you were explaining what you believe it means to be Born Again ....just the same as I explained it...it’s all an opinion....

 

[Behold]

Good topic, just have a little problem with your theology ... a little tweeking needed.

When Adam and Eve sinned, something died on that day. Their spirits died. Their spiritual relationship/unity/ connection to God was severed. So we are all born with a dead spirit,

If your spirit is dead, then you are dead., for eternity, and that does not happen to anyone.

Some tho, who teach that "the grave is the end'.. died today and their spirit, never born again, went to Hell,.... and in a day or 2, their body will be cremated or buried in a box, in a hole.

See, the "body is dead because of sin" already.
And once the person is born again, they are made alive by the Spirit of Christ., SPIRITUALLY, "born again, Spiritually".

This is our "eternal life".. and that is simply that, .. = based on the redemption that is Christ on the Cross,... God forgives all our sin, and births our spirit, into Himself. = "in Christ" we become "One with God".

"""" Spiritual Union" with God and Christ.

See that, Reader?

That is the : "CHRISTian"

This is literally God joining His Spirit, with ours, and because God is LIFE, as Jesus... = "i am the way, the truth and THE LIFE".. we now exist in that Spiritual Kingdom. = "seated in Heavenly Places" In Christ'.....

This is why the verse says....>"As Jesus is... so are the born again.. .in THIS World".... = Already.

So, this life that is Christ, who Himself is our Eternal life, is joined to our Spirit by spiritual Birth.
This is why the NT refers to the born again as "the temple of the Holy Spirit". which is "Christ in You, the hope of Glory".

This is Why John teaches that "you can KNOW that you have Eternal Life". and the way you know it, Reader, is because Jesus is Eternal life, and if He's in you, then you have Eternal life.

Now, if this never happens to you, Reader. If you are never born again.. but only water baptized... .. then the spiritual separation from God, that is caused by unforgiven sin, ... continues your unregenerate spirit, = right into Hell., and then later, the Lake of fire.

So, you have the 1st Death, that is the initial spiritual separation from God, continuing forever, after you die, as the 2nd Death.

That is the "2nd Death".. which is not a death, its a continuation for all eternity, = never being reconciled to God, through Christ, Spiritually as born again.


And Reader, you can't be born again, in Hell.

 

[Ritajanice]

Our enlightened minds when we are born again of Christ's Spirit are first given to understand the Gospel of Christ. This through the message about Christ and the power of His Spirit opening our minds and hearts so that we can know/believe with spiritual eyes and ears that we have been born again. After re-birth we have been taken from spiritual death/darkness to spiritual life/Light, and now have a desire for Christ and seek to know Him more and more. The more we seek for Christ through His Word, the more spiritual understanding we will have. If we seek Him with all our hearts, minds and souls, that is with both new spirit and life, we will find Him and come to a closer, and more meaningful relationship with our Lord through prayer and study

What you say here as I explained in my recent post.

You are explaining the rebirth from your own understanding of it.

Same as I did.

 

[rwb]

There was nothing biblical in your post.

Like everyone else, you were explaining what you believe it means to be Born Again ....just the same as I explained it...it’s all an opinion....

If my reply was "nothing biblical" as you ASSUME, then perhaps you would be kind enough to teach me how my reply has "nothing biblical"? Present Scripture to PROVE what you ALLEGE because I shall not be corrected by ones OPINIONS!

 

[Ritajanice]

If my reply was "nothing biblical" as you ASSUME, then perhaps you would be kind enough to teach me how my reply has "nothing biblical"? Present Scripture to PROVE what you ALLEGE because I shall not be corrected by on

I don’t assume...there was nothing biblical in your post.

Post scripture to support what you are saying...then interpret what it means?

Only the word of God speaks to my heart....not what you believe a Born Again and how one becomes Born again by your own standard.

Repeat....there was nothing scriptural in your quoted post to me...just opinion and your own understanding.

Our enlightened minds when we are born again of Christ...is NOT scriptural.

God makes much better sense of his word than we ever can.

John 3:1-21​

​

English Standard Version​

​

​

You Must Be Born Again​

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus[a] by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.”4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born again.’ 8 The wind[e] blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you[f] do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.[g] 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.


God also says.

◄ Ephesians 1:18 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, read chapter eight from the beginning. Is it not speaking of Greece conquering Medo Persia, the ram with two horns? The goat with the notable horn is Greece. Its horn was Alexander the Great, who died in his thirties, and the land was then divided between his four generals. One of the four areas where Israel was grew a little horn, Antiochus. Like it or not, this happened!

Oh!

When did the trampling of God's Temple and Earthly hosts begin?

Try around 260-250 BC.

When did the trampling of God's sanctuary and earthly hosts end?

Look for it to be in about 20 years' time, when the heavenly hosts are judged in heaven and the kings of the earth are judged on the earth and together, they will be imprisoned for many years in a pit awaiting the time of their punishment. (Isiaih 24:21-22)

This event will be observed on the earth when the kings of the earth assemble at Armageddon after the completion of the 2,300 years of trampling God's sanctuary and his earthly hosts.

The Lord even prophesied that there would be signs and wonders performed, that would be seen around the whole earth, which would herald the start of the gathering of the kings of the earth at Armageddon to be judged. Even Paul referenced the time of the judgement of the kings of the earth in Romans 9:25-26, when he stated that after this time of the completion of the 2,300 years of the gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and earthly hosts that, when the visitation of the iniquities of the fathers upon their children and the children's children ended after the completion of the fourth age of the existence of the Israelites, that all of Israel will be saved.

Yes you have described a historical event that appears to put all of the ducks in a row to confirm that the trampling of God's sanctuary and his earthly hosts occurred around 160 BC but Paul and even Jesus hinted that the Maccabee uprising was not the fulfilment of the Daniel 8 prophecy concerning the trampling of God's sanctuary and his earthly hosts.

Why can I say this?

Because the trampling of God's earthly hosts has continued up and until our present time and this trampling of God's earthly hosts will not be complete until the visitation of the fathers' iniquities on their children and the children's children is completed.

My response this post of yours: -

Why don't you holster your pride and allow Scripture to explain Scripture.

Where I posted: -

Is this just another false argument on your part. It seems to me that you do not let scripture explain scriptures in some of our interactions recently.

where you responded with what I quoted above in this post which was not biblical in any way shape or form. You did not let the scriptures confirm God's prophetic word in that thread but quoted history as your source of an apparent fulfilment of the Daniel 8 prophecy. Something that a preterist would do to claim that all of God's prophetic words were completed by the time of 1st advent of Christ.

Your argument against @Behold was a false argument then and it still is.

But since I do not put people on ignore when they put forward false argument such as you did, I will have to live with your response to this post as well.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If your spirit is dead, then you are dead., for eternity, and that does not happen to anyone.

No. don't think so. The physical life force is not generated by one's spirit. God sustains our life force. Proof of this is animals have souls, but not spirits and they live. The spiritual part of us is the part that communicates with God when He gives it life. The new creature ( spirit) is a purified replica of it's soul; but begins as an infant and grows. The spirit and soul is highly integrated, yet the WORD divides them.
What died on the day Adam and Eve sinned then??? Death was introduced to the physical body, where cells began to die and they began to age. But spiritually they died. This is what I was taught, that we are born with a dead spirit. I think of it as a spiritual compartment that is empty, waiting to be regenerated, quickened to life.
Here is more confirmation of the soul surviving physical death.
And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna." Matt.10:28.
Some more advanced studies:

[ Man is sort of designed like the Old Testament Temple. It was a physical template, divided into different sections, it had a Most Holy Place (the Holy of Holies), where God dwelled, behind the veil. Only the High Priest (without sin for one week) could enter. It was where the Ark of the Covenant was as well. When our High Priest (Jesus) enters our hearts (the Temple), He enters into the Courtyard, then into the Holy Place and then lifts the veil of the Most Holy Place so we can see ourselves and the world and have communion with Him.
The Most Holy Place is our spirit, where God dwells - In Christ.
The WORD (sharper than a two-edged sword) goes in and divides the soul and spirit.
The Holy Place represents our soul.
The spirit and soul are the heart of man. It is highly integrated, yet separate, part of us is pure and the other part not. When we die our pure spirit moves on leaving the flesh behind.
The Courtyard represents our body. Our soul and body (the flesh) is where sin dwells.
The Table of Showbread contained the bread and wine that represents our fellowship (communion) with God.
The Lampstand was always lit in the Old Temple. Since Jesus is the Light, we are now able to see spiritually.
The Bronze Laver was used for cleansing before entering the tabernacle to perform sacrifices. It represents the cleansing of the new believer, the baptism by water and our willingness to receive forgiveness and spiritual cleansing.] RDB

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What happens to the flesh when we become Born Again?

Does it battle with the Spirit?......

Who helps us understand what the flesh is/ was...and who helps us get it under control?

Or do you think it goes away, the instant we become Born Again?

@Behold ...is flesh our old nature?

Online commentary.


Using Paul's definition of the word flesh; the flesh (he points out) is the whole carnal disposition—the thinking, the way of the unregenerate or, unconverted man. That strong desire, or nature of man to sin, and rebel against the living God.

When we are born again we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit. Otherwise we do not belong to Christ.

Yes, the flesh is our old nature called the old man.