Sovereign Grace

[john t]

Episkopos said: ↑
Of course you want that. That is an emotional attachment based on self-preservation. But so often modern believers are looking to save the very thing that is meant to die on the cross.

Do you have a licence to practice "pop psychology"?
The forum is supposed to be against discussing other posters, but you just flaunted it.

I admit that my question above stays on the safe side of being rude, but it is a startling question, designed for you to see how much more rude your "pop analysis" actually is. I find it offensive.

 

[john t]

<SNIP>
And my warning you doesn't count for anything because you are already in love with the reflection of yourself you see in certain bible verses that give you the warm and fuzzies.
.

It is interesting how you will make reference to the Greek pantheon, and especially of the god Narcissus, but you have not made reference to the Bible.

 

[john t]

I am in no way obliged to try to teach you from the beginning all these basic bible teachings in the scope of this thread. It's too much. Are you trying to tie me up due to what you can't find in the bible for yourself? Check out rather all the threads I have done for the last 9 years or so. I have done the work elsewhere.
<SNIP>

You STILL do not get it. You made up those cockamamie phrases, and it is YOUR burden of proof, NOT mine to define them. I will admit that you are adept is your efforts to switch the burden of proof, and telling me to go back of 9 years of your posts here.

However, I will not do that because you are simply playing "Hide and Seek". From your inability to cite directly the places from where you actually did define those cockamamie phrases, I strongly suspect that you have never posted what you state you did on this forum. Therefore it is not wrong to suggest that your claims seem more fiction than anything else. Only you providing those posts can prove me to be wrong.

 

[JunChosen]

I am in no way obliged to try to teach you from the beginning all these basic bible teachings in the scope of this thread. It's too much.

Apparently you have not read 1 Peter 3:15 which reads:
"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear."

Are you trying to tie me up due to what you can't find in the bible for yourself? Check out rather all the threads I have done for the last 9 years or so. I have done the work elsewhere.

Really? Now you pat yourself on the back? Yet, I have not seen any evidence! Those who claim to know Scripture really don't, especially when they claim to be a self proclaimed Elder. What I noticed about you however is you have a good command of the English language and lack very much in the knowledge of God.

But when there is NOTHING yet to go on but obfuscations...it's a waste of time.

I thought you were describing yourself. Again, read 1 Peter 3:15.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Heart2Soul]

The human soul is a desperate thing. Many many modern believers are so in love with the nice sounding verses that they believe that God loves their ego as much as they do.

But God loves a different part of us. The weak inner man. NOT the ego driven outer carnal man.

So as people claim grace for themselves they fall deeper and deeper into deception.

A humble man under grace will only claim to be weak and ineffective.

But as person who is fooled by a false apprehension of grace will claim great things for himself. His self-love will soar and that will make him feel good. So that emotionally he will be satisfied with himself. The flesh latches onto salvation...making him blind to the truth.

Paul feared being cut-off...rejected...even after all he did. But the deceived one will never even give that thought a second to think over. The human heart is desperately wicked...and is filled with self-love. But God is against that kind of person. Grace does NOT cover the sinful nature of man. That nature must go to the cross.

So then people need to look to the cross BEFORE looking for the assurance of grace through faith.

What are trying to save?

I grew up in a church that taught if you sin you have backslidden and are no longer saved....I never had any joy in my salvation because I was always burdened with shame and guilt that I couldn't seem to be sinless.....hmmm...I am so thankful my Abba Father spoke to me the day I was about to quit trying to be a Christian because no matter how hard I tried I always messed up one way or another....and I was certain that I would NOT make it to heaven...so I was giving up. Going to just live my life and enjoy it the best I can without all the guilt, shame and condemnation for be imperfect.
I decided to take another look at Romans 8....and it is so plain that I don't understand how anyone misses it....
Romans 8:15-25
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


Verse 23 really pops out for me....not only they, but ourselves also....which have the firstfruits of the Spirit.....even we ourselves groan within ourselves....WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION...to wit, the redemption of our body...
Verse 24....we are saved by hope by hope....but...hope that is seen is not hope...for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Verse 25...But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Cross references to verse 23:
2 Corinthians 5:5, 5:2 and 5:4
Galatians 5:5 (Love it!)
Romans 8:11
Phillipians 3:21

But as far as Grace...the meaning of Grace (His Grace) is to give us what we DON'T deserve.
Mercy is when He doesn't give us what we DO deserve.

Why would God renew His Mercy and Grace...EVERYDAY?

 

[Episkopos]

I grew up in a church that taught if you sin you have backslidden and are no longer saved....I never had any joy in my salvation because I was always burdened with shame and guilt that I couldn't seem to be sinless.....hmmm...I am so thankful my Abba Father spoke to me the day I was about to quit trying to be a Christian because no matter how hard I tried I always messed up one way or another....and I was certain that I would NOT make it to heaven...so I was giving up. Going to just live my life and enjoy it the best I can without all the guilt, shame and condemnation for be imperfect.
I decided to take another look at Romans 8....and it is so plain that I don't understand how anyone misses it....
Romans 8:15-25
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.


Verse 23 really pops out for me....not only they, but ourselves also....which have the firstfruits of the Spirit.....even we ourselves groan within ourselves....WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION...to wit, the redemption of our body...
Verse 24....we are saved by hope by hope....but...hope that is seen is not hope...for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Verse 25...But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Cross references to verse 23:
2 Corinthians 5:5, 5:2 and 5:4
Galatians 5:5 (Love it!)
Romans 8:11
Phillipians 3:21

But as far as Grace...the meaning of Grace (His Grace) is to give us what we DON'T deserve.
Mercy is when He doesn't give us what we DO deserve.

Why would God renew His Mercy and Grace...EVERYDAY?

God goes easy on the humble...He accepts people easily. But He is hard to please. So there is a paradox there.

The problem is that people want God to accept them with their egos intact. God is easy on they who fear Him and are broken and humble. But that's not how most rich Westerns wish to be. They want to have the world and heaven too.

So if it was simply mercy that people were looking for...that's easy for God. He is merciful.

But people want to pretend they are on the level of a Paul...having all the promises of a saint...but with a self-centered and self-interested bent intact.

They want the life without the cross. A cross-less Christianity. A religion without power. A salvation while still in a fallen state. A tree that bears no eternal fruit. Clouds that bring no rain.

And the churches (and this forum) are FULL of people like these. They add to the numbers in the pews. And most ministries are looking for numbers as a measure of success. False teaching goes a long way to fulfill those numerical goals.

The narrow way is scoffed at. Religious engineering has now made wide the gates into the kingdom.

What Jesus seemed unable to do, modern ministries has accomplished. All that was needed was some good old American know-how. Who knew?

I'm sure God is impressed.

But will Jesus find faith on the Earth?

 

[Heart2Soul]

God goes easy on the humble...He accepts people easily. But He is hard to please. So there is a paradox there.

The problem is that people want God to accept them with their egos intact. God is easy on they who fear Him and are broken and humble. But that's not how most rich Westerns wish to be. They want to have the world and heaven too.

So if was simply mercy that people were looking for...that's easy for God. He is merciful.

But people want to pretend they are on the level of a Paul...having all the promises of a saint...but with a self-centered and self-interested bent intact.

They want the life without the cross. A cross-less Christianity. A religion without power. A salvation while still in a fallen state. A tree that bears no eternal fruit. Clouds that bring no rain.

And the churches (and this forum) are FULL of people like these. They add to the numbers in the pews. And most ministries are looking for numbers as a measure of success. False teaching goes a long way to fulfill those numerical goals.

The narrow way is scoffed at. Religious engineering has now made wide the gates into the kingdom.

What Jesus seemed unable to do, modern ministries has accomplished. All that was needed was some good old American know-how. Who knew?

I'm sure God is impressed.

But will Jesus find faith on the Earth?

Well I most certainly do not have any joy or peace when I sin....in fact the chastening at times seems unbearable...but I know it's for my own good. I am pretty transparent and have shared on the forum a few of my "thorns in my flesh" things. And I am in constant turmoil over it. I just want to be free of this body and never have to wrestle with it's temptations again.
I just want to rest in Him.

 

[JunChosen]

That's just not biblical. It is your emotions speaking from an indoctrination. But it is not based in truth. We will ALL be judged ONLY for what we have done with what we have been given.

That's it.

Time and again I've asked you to expound on Luke 12:48 because you keep offering that verse which I believe you have no knowledge of understanding, but you keep evading the question. The reason you fail/evade the question is because you have no understanding whatsoever of what the verse has stated.

Perhaps if I gave you reference verses you might be able to expound on Luke 12:48. The verses are 1 Corinthians 3:7-15.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

God goes easy on the humble...He accepts people easily. But He is hard to please. So there is a paradox there.

There is no paradox! "God loved Jacob and He hated Esau!" God is sovereign and perfect in everything He does!

To God Be The Glory

 

[john t]

Episkopos said: ↑
<SNIP>
And my warning you doesn't count for anything because you are already in love with the reflection of yourself you see in certain bible verses that give you the warm and fuzzies.

.
It is interesting how you will make reference to the Greek pantheon, and especially of the god Narcissus, but you have not made ANY direct reference to the Bible in its context.

 

[GTW27]

Well I most certainly do not have any joy or peace when I sin....in fact the chastening at times seems unbearable...but I know it's for my own good. I am pretty transparent and have shared on the forum a few of my "thorns in my flesh" things. And I am in constant turmoil over it. I just want to be free of this body and never have to wrestle with it's temptations again.
I just want to rest in Him.

Blessings in Christ Jesus! What we all have, are not "thorn in the flesh" things, they are weaknesses, for the flesh is weak but The Spirit is willing. Have you not noticed that the more we try to overcome these weaknesses, the stronger they become. Also, the more we dwell on them, the more it steals our joy and peace. This in itself is a device used by the enemy to try to steal our joy and peace.(we are not ignorant of his devices). There is a season for all of this, and to be learned out of all of this is, that He The Lord, alone, is Holy and Perfect. We are all unworthy of His unmerited grace, Love and faithfulness. Which of the two left justified, the righteous man(in his own eyes) or the man who beat his breast and knew he was unworthy. So pay your weaknesses no mind(think of them as balance) as they will draw you closer to The Lord in surrender and dependence. Has it not been said, "The Kingdom of God is within you", and "two can not walk together unless they agree"? Put these two things together and you will realize that you already have all that you need. "Christ in us the hope of Glory"

 

[Heart2Soul]

Blessings in Christ Jesus! What we all have, are not "thorn in the flesh" things, they are weaknesses, for the flesh is weak but The Spirit is willing. Have you not noticed that the more we try to overcome these weaknesses, the stronger they become. Also, the more we dwell on them, the more it steals our joy and peace. This in itself is a device used by the enemy to try to steal our joy and peace.(we are not ignorant of his devices). There is a season for all of this, and to be learned out of all of this is, that He The Lord, alone, is Holy and Perfect. We are all unworthy of His unmerited grace, Love and faithfulness. Which of the two left justified, the righteous man(in his own eyes) or the man who beat his breast and knew he was unworthy. So pay your weaknesses no mind(think of them as balance) as they will draw you closer to The Lord in surrender and dependence. Has it not been said, "The Kingdom of God is within you", and "two can not walk together unless they agree"? Put these two things together and you will realize that you already have all that you need. "Christ in us the hope of Glory"

Absolutely perfect timing. A Word in due season. Thank you.

 

[farouk]

Absolutely perfect timing. A Word in due season. Thank you.

@Heart2Soul Psalm 31.15: "My times are in thy hand".

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Heart2Soul Psalm 31.15: "My times are in thy hand".

Yes indeed!

 

[farouk]

Yes indeed!

@Heart2Soul FYI.....

My times are in thy hand;
my God, I wish them there;
my life, my friends, my soul, I leave
entirely to thy care.

2 My times are in thy hand,
whatever they may be;
pleasing or painful, dark or bright,
as best may seem to thee.

3 My times are in thy hand;
why should I doubt or fear?
My Father's hand will never cause
his child a needless tear.

4 My times are in thy hand,
Jesus the Crucified;
those hands my cruel sins had pierced
are now my guard and guide.

 

[BarneyFife]

You STILL do not get it. You made up those cockamamie phrases, and it is YOUR burden of proof, NOT mine to define them. I will admit that you are adept is your efforts to switch the burden of proof, and telling me to go back of 9 years of your posts here.

However, I will not do that because you are simply playing "Hide and Seek". From your inability to cite directly the places from where you actually did define those cockamamie phrases, I strongly suspect that you have never posted what you state you did on this forum. Therefore it is not wrong to suggest that your claims seem more fiction than anything else. Only you providing those posts can prove me to be wrong.

"Johnny participates in class but does not play well with others."