Speaking in tongues is NOT a gift

[Rich R]

Revelation has nothing to do with the church? How wrong can you be?

Revelation 1:3-6, "From John, to the seven churches that are in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from “he who is,” and who was, and who is still to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ—the faithful witness, the firstborn from among the dead, the ruler over the kings of the earth. To the one who loves us and has set us free from our sins at the cost of his own blood and has appointed us as a kingdom, as priests serving his God and Father—to him be the glory and the power for ever and ever! Amen."

Revelation 1:10-11, " I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day when I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, saying: “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches—to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.”

Revelation 2 and 3 -- both chapters -- are addressed to the seven churches.

What you're telling us is completely wrong!

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Finally this has nothing to do with the OP: "speaking in tongues is not a gift"

First of all, the word "churches" is the Greek word "ekklesia" which means an assembly of any sort. Acts contains a record where an unruly mob was called an ekklesia.

Secondly, read the letters to the 7 assemblies and you may notice many things God said to Israel in the past, but the language is quite different than that of Paul's epistles.

Also you may want to research to see if all of those assemblies even existed when John wrote.

Or just stick with tradition.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You probably wont' like to hear this, but all I can say is you are mixing up times and peoples.

Revelation is highly Jewish in character. Over and over again it refers to the OT. It is the fulfillment of the very physical kingdom God promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It has nothing to do with the church. You can investigate further or discard at your desire. I'm just telling you.

Daniel is a perfect example of prophecies for the nation of Israel, but also the New Covenant to them. Again, we are grafted into it. Jesus has already completed Daniel 9:24 in us if you are born again, and 25-27 is about the timing of when the Messiah would come and be cut off, and things happening after Pentecost.

 

[Rich R]

The apostles were born again and God spoke to them. Otherwise the whole NT would just be their own opinions. The gospels were to the Jews, both unsaved and saved. Gentiles are grafted into Israel.

There were no born again Jews in the Gospels. If there were, why did Jesus bother to die? Apparently his death and resurrection was not necessary to get saved if folks could get saved before he died.

 

[Jim B]

First of all, the word "churches" is the Greek word "ekklesia" which means an assembly of any sort. Acts contains a record where an unruly mob was called an ekklesia.

Secondly, read the letters to the 7 assemblies and you may notice many things God said to Israel in the past, but the language is quite different than that of Paul's epistles.

Also you may want to research to see if all of those assemblies even existed when John wrote.

Or just stick with tradition.

Sorry, but I believe the Bible, not your opinion.

 

[Jim B]

There were no born again Jews in the Gospels. If there were, why did Jesus bother to die? Apparently his death and resurrection was not necessary to get saved if folks could get saved before he died.

All the authors of the Bible "books" were inspired by God, which is why the Bible is considered the pure "word of God".

This also has nothing to do with the OP's subject: speaking in tongues. You're jumping around all over the place from subject to subject.

 

[Rich R]

Daniel is a perfect example of prophecies for the nation of Israel. Again, we are grafted into it. Jesus has already completed Daniel 9:24 in us if you are born again, and 25-27 is about the timing of when the Messiah would come and be cut off, and things happening after Pentecost.

So God was wrong about nobody knowing the secret before Paul? Daniel knew it way before Paul knew it? These ideas come from not understanding the different people to whom God spoke as well as when He spoke. Different people and different times. Do you read and answer your neighbor's mail?

It is important to keep Jew, Gentile, and Church straight. It is also important to keep the different administrations straight. The Bible gets quite confusing if we take for ourselves in this age of grace something God told Israel in the law administration. It is also critical to have an understanding of the mystery God kept secret until He revealed it to Paul.

 

[Rich R]

Sorry, but I believe the Bible, not your opinion.

I never asked anyone to believe anything.

 

[Jim B]

So God was wrong about nobody knowing the secret before Paul? Daniel knew it way before Paul knew it? These ideas come from not understanding the different people to whom God spoke as well as when He spoke. Different people and different times. Do you read and answer your neighbor's mail?

It is important to keep Jew, Gentile, and Church straight. It is also important to keep the different administrations straight. The Bible gets quite confusing if we take for ourselves in this age of grace something God told Israel in the law administration. It is also critical to have an understanding of the mystery God kept secret until He revealed it to Paul.

As usual, your post has nothing to do with the OP. Why do you keep posting off-topic stuff?

 

[Jim B]

I never asked anyone to believe anything.

Nonsense. You're posting hoping that people will believe what you say.

 

[Rich R]

All the authors of the Bible "books" were inspired by God, which is why the Bible is considered the pure "word of God".

This also has nothing to do with the OP's subject: speaking in tongues. You're jumping around all over the place from subject to subject.

What's that got to do with tongues?

 

[Rich R]

As usual, your post has nothing to do with the OP. Why do you keep posting off-topic stuff?

Such a bad boy I am!

 

[Rich R]

Nonsense. You're posting hoping that people will believe what you say.

And you're not?

Didn't you just complain about me getting off topic? There is nothing in the OP about me hoping anything, let alone that people would believe me. God gave us all the responsibility to preach the word. He gives the increase, not me. I speak; I've done my job. End of story.

 

[Jim B]

What's that got to do with tongues?

You are the one who has gone far away from the OP subject. What compels you to be a "wise guy"?

 

[Jim B]

And you're not?

Didn't you just complain about me getting off topic? There is nothing in the OP about me hoping anything, let alone that people would believe me. God gave us all the responsibility to preach the word. He gives the increase, not me. I speak; I've done my job. End of story.

Good, then stop preaching!!!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I just can't get past 1 Cor 12:7-10 where tongues is called a manifestation. I still don't see it called a manifested gift.

Are you being obtuse because you don't see it the way I do? Why am I obtuse but you're not? Could it not be we just see it in different ways? And why am I the one lacking understanding? Is it also because I don't see it your way? Why aren't you the one lacking understanding because you don't see it the way I do?

See why all this accusation slinging is pointless? Let's drop it and stick with the scriptures. We'll all find out where we were right and where we were wrong when Jesus comes back. Let him be the judge of who's misunderstanding what.

As far as God giving it to whom He wishes, why would He say He would have all speak in tongues in 1 Cor 14:5 if He only meant for some to speak in tongues? I see that as God wanting all Christians to speak in tongues. Now I know Corinthians says not all speak in tongues, but that is only speaking to the obvious and in no way negates God's will that we all would speak in tongues. It's simply saying that not all Christians follow God's will on that score.

I see it the way Scripture does. It is a manifestation ( or visible outworking of the inner spierit) and it is a gift. We have rfeached an end herew. Have the last word if you wish.

There is only one way to see scripture-- as it is written. why you refuse to see Paul calling it a manifestation AND a gift is beyond me.

I don't see it the way you do because Scripture specifically calls it a gift as well as a manifestation. The fact that you reject calling it a specific gift of the Spirit ( and not the generic all thigns are gifts) means you are not reading scripture properly.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If you're right, Jesus died for no reason. If we could get eternal life before he died, his death was pointless. It's never good to build an entire doctrine on one verse.

John 20 was after He died.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't see it the way you do because Scripture specifically calls it a gift as well as a manifestation.

Whenever a gift is USED it becomes the manifestation of that gift. Without the gift there cannot be any manifestation. So Rich R is not only out to lunch but he also refuses to admit that he is manufacturing his own theology, just like he rejects the deity of Christ. When someone refuses to believe that Jesus is God, anything else he or she says is bound to be foolish.

 

[Rich R]

You are the one who has gone far away from the OP subject. What compels you to be a "wise guy"?

What does my being a "wise guy" have to do with tongues? Do you want to know what compels me to do something or do you want to talk about tongues? I'm fine with the latter, but I have no interest in me or anybody else being a "wise guy." Have you still not gotten the message? I must have said something to that effect a dozen times now.

 

[Rich R]

Good, then stop preaching!!!

That sounds exactly like something the devil would say. Here's what God says;

2 Tim 4:2,

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
​

Hmmmm...who to believe?

 

[Jim B]

That sounds exactly like something the devil would say. Here's what God says;

2 Tim 4:2,

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
​

Hmmmm...who to believe?

Are you comparing me to the devil???