spirit, soul, body differences

[Randy Kluth]

I read "The Spiritual Man," by Watchman Nee many years ago, and he treated an interesting subject--the divisions of the spirit, soul, and body. I understood his main point, that when we're crucified with Christ, the new "Me" is now under lordship of Christ, and submits not just body, but also soul to the Spirit of Christ. Our emotions become *his emotions.* Our mind becomes *his mind.* Our will becomes *his will.*

This is how Nee set it out. The spirit in us, which relates to God's Spirit, operates as a means of conscience, intuition, and communion. When we operate in such a way as to operate in unison with God, then our soul and body can operate as one with God's Spirit, as well.

Nee sees the function of our soul as reflective of mind, will, and emotions. So when our spirit is united with God's Spirit, our mind becomes the mind of Christ, etc.

What is "body" is is obvious. So when our spirit is aligned with God's Spirit, both our soul and our body functions in unison with Christ.

Personally, I find it easier just to see the spirit as the part of us that unites with God, or not. It's a yes or no choice--we either remain with God, or not. Those who sometimes choose God and sometimes not do not actually choose for God Himself--they are just choosing to use from God what serves themselves, and do not do this for God entirely.

When our spirit unites with God on a personal level, ie out of desire for God Himself, and not just for ourselves, then our soul and our body aligns properly with Christ. We can say that Christ lives in us, and that we, in our flesh, died.

I define the "soul" simply as our ego. It is who we are, our identity. The "spirit" and the "body" are parts of us that need to align with God or not. They need to become pure through alignment with God's Spirit, which is enabled by the soul's response to God's word. And after we have responded positively to God's word, the soul is able to go on managing this alignment, either temporarily or in perpetuity.

Since the body will be destroyed, it will be either resurrected in glorified bodies or in servant bodies that are not glorious. If our spirits choose to align with God in perpetuity, because we choose God and not just His gifts to us, then our souls are perfectly aligned with Christ, and we are saved. When our spirits thus become pure in their alignment with Christ, our bodies will be able to be fully aligned in the resurrection, and begin to align with Christ now by doing good works.

 

[Base12]

I define the "soul" simply as our ego. It is who we are, our identity.

I agree with the 'Identity' part of the above quote. The Soul is most definitely our Identity, however I believe the Bible teaches that Soul is more than just our Ego.

I have researched and meditated on this subject for many years now. My conclusion?

A Life Form's Genetic Code is their Soul.

In other words Soul = Genome. Therefore, anything that has DNA, has a Soul.

 

[Base12]

The Soul (DNA Code), lives on after death via its Spirit. It is information.

The Spirit is the Power (literally, Electromagnetism) that quickens the Genome...

John 6:63
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

The 'Flesh' is the Body. The 'Word' is the Genome. The Word is both Spirit (Power) and Life (Soul).

• Body
• Spirit
• Soul

This theme may be found all throughout Scripture.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I agree with the 'Identity' part of the above quote. The Soul is most definitely our Identity, however I believe the Bible teaches that Soul is more than just our Ego.

I have researched and meditated on this subject for many years now. My conclusion?

A Life Form's Genetic Code is their Soul.

In other words Soul = Genome. Therefore, anything that has DNA, has a Soul.

I agree. God's "computer chip" for us presents us with who we are. However, I believe there is both a physical DNA and a spiritual DNA.

We've inherited a spiritual Sin Nature, along with a spiritual nature. And so we don't just have a physical nature, but we also have a spiritual nature.

We know we are spirits encased in bodies because our spirits survive death without the body for awhile. Inasmuch as the Bible indicates we are "naked" without bodies, longing to be clothed with new glorified bodies, it's apparent our spirits were designed to be encased in bodies.

And so, we are both spirits and bodies, which forms our "ego," or "soul." We are both spirits and bodies, but best described as a "soul."

 

[Base12]

Because some Genetic Codes (Souls) are not fit for the Kingdom, God had to create a special Angel to destroy them...

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

We are talking Eugenics here. Apollyon is the Eugenicist that will 'ethnically cleanse' the undesirable Seed...

Revelation 9:11
"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."

Once the DNA Code (along with the Body) is destroyed, the Spirit returns to God who gave it.

 

[Base12]

However, I believe there is both a physical DNA and a spiritual DNA.

Yes...

• Physical DNA = Body + Soul + Spirit
• Spiritual DNA = Soul + Spirit (No Body)

The Spiritual DNA Soul (Genome) is created before the Body is. The Physical DNA Body (flesh) is created by reading the instructions of said Genome.

Adam became a 'Living Soul' once Spirit was breathed into him.

 

[Base12]

We are both spirits and bodies, but best described as a "soul."

I disagree.

Scripture states we are Tripart...

• Body
• Soul
• Spirit

In fact, Souls are Feminine...

Psalms 34:2
"My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad."

The Body can be Male or Female.

Bummer OP. I was hoping you believed in a Tripart as well.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I disagree.

Scripture states we are Tripart...

• Body
• Soul
• Spirit

In fact, Souls are Feminine...

Psalms 34:2
"My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad."

The Body can be Male or Female.

Bummer OP. I was hoping you believed in a Tripart as well.

It's okay. Yes, we're tripart. But the spirit survives the death of the body. So we are spirits as well. It's just that without a body, we're viewed, biblically, as naked. We long to be clothed with our new glorious bodies, is what Paul said.

If we are strictly tripart, how is it possible for our spirits to be alive without bodies?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes...

• Physical DNA = Body + Soul + Spirit
• Spiritual DNA = Soul + Spirit (No Body)

The Spiritual DNA Soul (Genome) is created before the Body is. The Physical DNA Body (flesh) is created by reading the instructions of said Genome.

Adam became a 'Living Soul' once Spirit was breathed into him.

Partly agree. I just don't believe that a spiritual DNA can be "created" before the body is created. But I do agree that physical DNA is body, and spiritual DNA is soul and spirit.

 

[soul man]

I read "The Spiritual Man," by Watchman Nee many years ago, and he treated an interesting subject--the divisions of the spirit, soul, and body. I understood his main point, that when we're crucified with Christ, the new "Me" is now under lordship of Christ, and submits not just body, but also soul to the Spirit of Christ. Our emotions become *his emotions.* Our mind becomes *his mind.* Our will becomes *his will.*

This is how Nee set it out. The spirit in us, which relates to God's Spirit, operates as a means of conscience, intuition, and communion. When we operate in such a way as to operate in unison with God, then our soul and body can operate as one with God's Spirit, as well.

Nee sees the function of our soul as reflective of mind, will, and emotions. So when our spirit is united with God's Spirit, our mind becomes the mind of Christ, etc.

What is "body" is is obvious. So when our spirit is aligned with God's Spirit, both our soul and our body functions in unison with Christ.

Personally, I find it easier just to see the spirit as the part of us that unites with God, or not. It's a yes or no choice--we either remain with God, or not. Those who sometimes choose God and sometimes not do not actually choose for God Himself--they are just choosing to use from God what serves themselves, and do not do this for God entirely.

When our spirit unites with God on a personal level, ie out of desire for God Himself, and not just for ourselves, then our soul and our body aligns properly with Christ. We can say that Christ lives in us, and that we, in our flesh, died.

I define the "soul" simply as our ego. It is who we are, our identity. The "spirit" and the "body" are parts of us that need to align with God or not. They need to become pure through alignment with God's Spirit, which is enabled by the soul's response to God's word. And after we have responded positively to God's word, the soul is able to go on managing this alignment, either temporarily or in perpetuity.

Since the body will be destroyed, it will be either resurrected in glorified bodies or in servant bodies that are not glorious. If our spirits choose to align with God in perpetuity, because we choose God and not just His gifts to us, then our souls are perfectly aligned with Christ, and we are saved. When our spirits thus become pure in their alignment with Christ, our bodies will be able to be fully aligned in the resurrection, and begin to align with Christ now by doing good works.

Some of the old guys were tapping into some good understanding. Do have have anything personally on dividing soul and spirit? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Some of the old guys were tapping into some good understanding. Do have have anything personally on dividing soul and spirit? Just curious. Thanks.

Another author named Sparks, as I recall, wrote on the subject. But we normally think of the passage in Hebrews where it describes the union of soul and spirit as elements that are nearly indivisible. It is comparable to bone and marrow connecting in the joints--essentially a united material.

Heb 4.12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I never felt that I understood this passage well, perhaps because I tried to read too much into it. It isn't setting forth an explanation that "soul" and "spirit" are in separate categories to any extent. But the insinuation is there.

It could, however, just be saying that *both* soul and spirit are being penetrated by the word of God--not necessarily separating them. As one commentator pointed out, the soul is not being divided from the spirit, but both soul and spirit are being separated in the sense of being "penetrated" (Ellicot).

Barnes believes that the "soul" refers to our beast nature, and the "spirit" refers to our eternal nature. And that may be true--I'm not sure. We likely overcomplicate the passage in Hebrews if we try to read too much into what the author is trying to say.

I believe that what the author is saying is that in our separation from God during the Fall, our human nature had lost some of its God-like qualities, and that this fallen state is being exposed by the word of God. We are not being separated into 3 parts, body, soul, and spirit, nor are all 3 categories being discussed in any detail.

The assumption has to be that in the Fall, both soul and spirit are elements that depict that Fall. The soul is who we are--we have fallen out of relationship with God. And our spirit is the life essence that God gave us when He made us a soul. We were made to be eternal spirits in His likeness.

As such, our souls, ie who we are, were made to be *spirits like God in character.* We were made to be both "soul" and "spirit."

So both spirit and soul have fallen from God--both our eternal nature of being like God and our own persons have fallen away from God. And God's word exposes that so as to elicit our return to Him, to be what we were made to be.

Heb 4.11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

 

[soul man]

Another author named Sparks, as I recall, wrote on the subject. But we normally think of the passage in Hebrews where it describes the union of soul and spirit as elements that are nearly indivisible. It is comparable to bone and marrow connecting in the joints--essentially a united material.

Heb 4.12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I never felt that I understood this passage well, perhaps because I tried to read too much into it. It isn't setting forth an explanation that "soul" and "spirit" are in separate categories to any extent. But the insinuation is there.

It could, however, just be saying that *both* soul and spirit are being penetrated by the word of God--not necessarily separating them. As one commentator pointed out, the soul is not being divided from the spirit, but both soul and spirit are being separated in the sense of being "penetrated" (Ellicot).

Barnes believes that the "soul" refers to our beast nature, and the "spirit" refers to our eternal nature. And that may be true--I'm not sure. We likely overcomplicate the passage in Hebrews if we try to read too much into what the author is trying to say.

I believe that what the author is saying is that in our separation from God during the Fall, our human nature had lost some of its God-like qualities, and that this fallen state is being exposed by the word of God. We are not being separated into 3 parts, body, soul, and spirit, nor are all 3 categories being discussed in any detail.

The assumption has to be that in the Fall, both soul and spirit are elements that depict that Fall. The soul is who we are--we have fallen out of relationship with God. And our spirit is the life essence that God gave us when He made us a soul. We were made to be eternal spirits in His likeness.

As such, our souls, ie who we are, were made to be *spirits like God in character.* We were made to be both "soul" and "spirit."

So both spirit and soul have fallen from God--both our eternal nature of being like God and our own persons have fallen away from God. And God's word exposes that so as to elicit our return to Him, to be what we were made to be.

Heb 4.11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

Yea thanks Randy that has a lot of good understanding in it thanks. It is a hard verse to understand. I keep seeing that sword separating such as; we have soul and a spirit and a body. Just as a joint does what it does, and marrow does what it does. But two separate operates both very necessary. I think your right about reading to much into a verse that happens. I try to just stay with face value. I used to trek through the scriptures like a wild man ha but you end up spinning your wheels most of the time. The plain old black and white english tends to be the easiest way to interpret scripture, and of coarse with the help of our helper the Holyspirit. The scripture says soul and spirit can be separated. I feel dividing helps us to see what happened in spirit (the cross) and what is happening in soul (our distinct creation). You know certain verses that cause people to either think scripture contradicts itself or they cannot understand, that helps with that. Dividing is in verses like 'rightly dividing the word of truth' what is Paul saying? Point being dividing is in there in more than one place. In genesis it said Adam was created a living soul. To me the only way to translate that is; Adam was created a living soul . How that gets interpreted is another story because of the different understandings on that verse. So what we can do is search the scriptures, they will interpret themselves but the believer has to stay with scripture and not go off on "this is what I think" or whatever it is we say, scripture will interpret it self. We should have definite Spirit taught knowledge, what scripture calls revelation. In the revelation as we grow to see Christ in us alot of things we didn't know are either not that important or you just don't really care to know in view of Christ as life understanding knowledge. Where is he (what do I divide), what is he doing, how did he get there.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yea thanks Randy that has a lot of good understanding in it thanks. It is a hard verse to understand. I keep seeing that sword separating such as; we have soul and a spirit and a body. Just as a joint does what it does, and marrow does what it does. But two separate operates both very necessary. I think your right about reading to much into a verse that happens. I try to just stay with face value. I used to trek through the scriptures like a wild man ha but you end up spinning your wheels most of the time. The plain old black and white english tends to be the easiest way to interpret scripture, and of coarse with the help of our helper the Holyspirit. The scripture says soul and spirit can be separated. I feel dividing helps us to see what happened in spirit (the cross) and what is happening in soul (our distinct creation). You know certain verses that cause people to either think scripture contradicts itself or they cannot understand, that helps with that. Dividing is in verses like 'rightly dividing the word of truth' what is Paul saying? Point being dividing is in there in more than one place. In genesis it said Adam was created a living soul. To me the only way to translate that is; Adam was created a living soul . How that gets interpreted is another story because of the different understandings on that verse. So what we can do is search the scriptures, they will interpret themselves but the believer has to stay with scripture and not go off on "this is what I think" or whatever it is we say, scripture will interpret it self. We should have definite Spirit taught knowledge, what scripture calls revelation. In the revelation as we grow to see Christ in us alot of things we didn't know are either not that important or you just don't really care to know in view of Christ as life understanding knowledge. Where is he (what do I divide), what is he doing, how did he get there.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12.

True, some things are just not worth spending too much time with it. But if it's there, it's worth giving it a try. Part of the issue is simply a language issue. How the words are generally used in the Bible matters, keeping in mind that the same word can mean different things in different contexts.

"Separate" may refer to "exposing something," as in separating things into component parts in order to understand them. In this case, spirit and soul are so close together that it seems they must be seen together. Instead of cutting spirit apart from soul, and instead of cutting both spirit and soul in half, it seems "separate," in this context, refers to inspecting, microscopically, both spirit and soul as a single entity in order to examine if they correlate with the righteousness of Christ.

In other words, "spirit" and "soul" appear to be synonyms, only with a slight deviation, one showing "substance" and the other showing "individuality." They are pretty much the same thing, except that "spirit" indicates an "agency" or "substance," and "soul" indicates "identity" or "individuality."

After all, the Fall caused Man to fall out of congruency, or harmony, with God's word. The spirit and soul of Man continues to be God-like and yet independent of cooperation with God. The result is that Man produces false religious works, without the Spirit of God being the agent behind these works.

This to me is the main issue in life for Man, to reconcile with God and return to harmony with God, acting in direct accord with the Holy Spirit and with God's word. As a result we produce not false religious works, but rather, the works of Christ as they operate through us.

The word of God "divides" our spirit and soul in this sense. It exposes whether our spirit is in accord with God's Spirit, and whether our soul is in a state of obedience to God's word. Is our spiritual substance *pure* by remaining in contact with the Spirit of God, and is our identity fully integrated with God's word so that who we are is demonstrating that we are children of God?

Anyway, it's interesting to discuss it. Some of the things Nee pointed out really spoke to me. I began to realize that I could get upset for myself, and abuse others, or I could get upset on God's behalf, and let God take vengeance. It made me realize that our witness is not just being positive, showing God's love, or it can also be negative, showing God's judgment. It isn't whether we are positive or negative, but whether we are reflecting God's emotions and God's attitude.

It is the difference between submitting to God or trying to get our own way. I hope this makes sense? If we submit to God, we are doing what His word is directing us to do, so that we are witnessing to Him, rather than trying to create the world in our own image. Very different ways of managing our "soul."

 

[theQuestioneer]

I read "The Spiritual Man," by Watchman Nee many years ago, and he treated an interesting subject--the divisions of the spirit, soul, and body. I understood his

_________________________________________________________________________________
Imagine the wisdom and understanding you'd get from reading the Bible, instead of books like that!
Few seem to do it here!

Adam was created a living soul, the Bible speaks of souls that are dead.
God keeps all living by His spirit.

 

[Randy Kluth]

_________________________________________________________________________________
Imagine the wisdom and understanding you'd get from reading the Bible, instead of books like that!
Few seem to do it here!

Adam was created a living soul, the Bible speaks of souls that are dead.
God keeps all living by His spirit.

Imagine if we "submitted ourselves, one to another?" We might actually get something from the gifted people the Holy Spirit has selected.

Oh, is that from the Bible? Yes!

Don't worship the Bible. Do what it says!

 

[theQuestioneer]

Except, who ARE "the gifted people the holy spirit has selected"....

 

[Randy Kluth]

Except, who ARE "the gifted people the holy spirit has selected"....

When we start selecting only men and women within our own denomination, we become partial in our judgment. God chooses men and women in every denomination in which God's Spirit is allowed free rein. To just limit the use of men used in the Scriptures erases the entire history of the churches, as they function in every locale.

Do you really want churches to gather and only sing psalms from the Bible, and read the Bible? No sermon, no exhortation, no explanation, no prophecies, etc.? What is the purpose of "Bible Only" reading? All Christian books are worthless? Anything fit for the modern world has to be relegated to conversation from the 1st century? I don't understand your logic!

Rom 12. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

1 Cor 12.4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Eph 4.11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

 

[soul man]

we become partial in our judgment.

Hi Randy, I'm curious here on 'what we would judge?

 

[theQuestioneer]

When we start selecting only men and women within our own denomination, we become partial in our judgment. God chooses men and women in every denomination in which God's Spirit is allowed free rein.

You honestly think God would choose people form denominations that LIE about Him and His son- and share with them His holy power??????

 

[Randy Kluth]

You honestly think God would choose people form denominations that LIE about Him and His son- and share with them His holy power??????

No, I don't believe God will continue to operate through Christian leaders who turn from the Way. But I don't define all non-Catholic communions as "liars." Neither do I define all Catholics as "liars." The Holy Spirit chooses leaders in *all* denominations who *give the Spirit free rein.*