Spiritual Millennialism is not with Satan shut up

[Davy]

No one at my church taught me this but the point is that the gospel frees only those who choose to believe

Satan is bound by the power of the gospel but only to those who choose to accept it that’s why Jesus was warning people

Well, I'm sure they mean well, but they don't realize what they're saying. Our protection as Christians comes from the Power of Christ, and via The Holy Spirit. Hearing The Gospel and believing on Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection, is just the 1st step in receiving that Power.

And the way Lord Jesus described that per His Word, is here, which is what they should have been teaching you...

Luke 10:17-20
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, "Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name."
18 And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
KJV

Have they taught you that as a Christian, that Christ gave us power over all the power of the enemy? When we feel spiritual evil trying to attack us, simply cast those demons back to the pit in the name of Jesus Christ. They MUST go when we do that. This is what God's sealing of His servants by The Holy Spirit is about.

 

[Davy]

The bottomless pit is a spiritual condition

It is actually a 'real' place, but in the Heavenly dimension.

There are 2 separate dimensions of existence taught in God's Word. The Heavenly one exists behind a veil today. We cannot see it (unless God allows it, like in Isaiah 6, or 2 Cor.12, etc.). But that Heavenly dimension is just as real as this earthly dimension we live in.

So men's theoretical terms like 'spiritual', or 'mystical', 'supernatural', etc., are secularist descriptions, NOT Biblical descriptors.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You realize that doesn’t make sense.

No, I wouldn't have said it if I thought it doesn't make sense.

If someone is in prison, bound and sealed by God, how can he persecute people but not deceive them?

This is your problem. You are comparing the binding of a spirit being to the physical binding of a human being. But, they're not the same. Of course what I'm saying isn't going to make sense if you assume that Satan's binding is no different than a physical binding of a human being. But, that isn't how his binding should be understood.

The idea of being sealed is he is powerless and could do nothing.

That is your assumption. You have decided that the binding of a spirit being like Satan should be understood no differently than a human being physically bound in a prison, but I don't see it that way.

Allowing him to do anything other than deceive and calling his imprisonment by God, sealed, is not logical.

It's not logical if you insist on equating spiritual things with physical things like you are doing. But, I think my view is perfectly logical from a spiritual perspective.

Either he is sealed and completely powerless or he’s not sealed.

That is your assumption based on your way of looking at things, but I'm not obligated to look at things like that. You are acting as if Satan was a physical being who can be literally, physically bound with a literal chain. That is not the case.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nothing you posted proves Satan is sealed.
Did Paul or Peter ever say Satan is sealed, he can deceive you no more?

Paul said this (I believe he wrote the book of Hebrews):

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

And this:

Acts 26:15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Or did Peter say he seeks to devour them?

He seeks to do that, but he must flee from anyone who resists him (James 4:7). That was not the case in Old Testament times because they did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them like we do now. You're not even thinking about the difference between what Satan was able to do in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times. If you actually stepped back for a bit and thought about that then you might at least understand why Amils interpret Satan's binding the way we do.

Jesus cannot reign if the Beast reigns and Satan reigns with the beast. Christ destroys their reign, he doesn’t reign concurrently with them. The nations arnt Christ till the 7th Trumpet. This idea of one fold will be complete when the fullness of the gentiles comes in. When completed, he will reign.

He reigns now. Scripture very clearly teaches that. Only doctrinal bias can keep someone from seeing that.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you[f] to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus will hand over the kingdom He currently reigns over to the Father when He comes again.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, it's a physical prison for satan and fallen angels. They cannot physically escape from it. Their spirits also cannot escape from it.

Do you think Satan and fallen angels are physical beings? They are not.

 

[Marty fox]

The gospel frees, not binds. The being bound with a chain is not allowing limited freedom as Amill errantly teaches. The pit imprisons, not allows limited freedom as also Amill errantly teaches.

So you don’t think that the power of the Holy Spirit within you after you accept the good news of the gospel binds satans power over you?

Yes the gospel frees whoever accepts it but it also binds and defeats satan against you

 

[Marty fox]

Well, I'm sure they mean well, but they don't realize what they're saying. Our protection as Christians comes from the Power of Christ, and via The Holy Spirit. Hearing The Gospel and believing on Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection, is just the 1st step in receiving that Power.

And the way Lord Jesus described that per His Word, is here, which is what they should have been teaching you...

Luke 10:17-20
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, "Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name."
18 And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."
KJV

Have they taught you that as a Christian, that Christ gave us power over all the power of the enemy? When we feel spiritual evil trying to attack us, simply cast those demons back to the pit in the name of Jesus Christ. They MUST go when we do that. This is what God's sealing of His servants by The Holy Spirit is about.

Did you even read my post I said that no one at my church taught me any of this?

I think that I now understand your replies to me as a few times now when you reply to me you didn’t even read my post

Of course I agree with your last paragraph that’s the message of amil teaching satan is bound by the Holy Spirit over us if we choose to believe

 

[ewq1938]

So you don’t that that the power of the Holy Spirit within you after you accept the good news of the gospel binds satans power over you?

An angel with a key to a lock and a chain, that binds satan and places him in the pit and locks it and places a seal is not the gospel. Amill's interpretation is nonsense, re-writing the holy text into something God never penned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

An angel with a key to a lock and a chain, that binds satan and places him in the pit and locks it and places a seal is not the gospel. Amill's interpretation is nonsense, re-writing the holy text into something God never penned.

What is nonsense is the fact that a vast majority of Premils deny the huge impact that Christ's death and resurrection and the subsequent preaching of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit had on Satan. The fact that Premils can't recognize that passages like the following are related to the binding of Satan shows how lacking in discernment they are.

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Acts 26:15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Matthew 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

 

[Marty fox]

An angel with a key to a lock and a chain, that binds satan and places him in the pit and locks it and places a seal is not the gospel. Amill's interpretation is nonsense, re-writing the holy text into something God never penned.

So is this chain more powerfull than the gospel?

 

[ewq1938]

So is this chain more powerfull than the gospel?

The gospel cannot bind satan, nor place him into a prison nor are those things the purpose of the gospel. God used an angel and a chain with a lock to do that. The gospel is not any of the things that are done to the wicked like the pit prison or the lake of fire etc.

Again, the gospel is not sealed in the pit with satan nor did the gospel just appear suddenly with an angel from heaven thousands of years after Christ brought the gospel to the world.

 

[Marty fox]

The gospel cannot bind satan, nor place him into a prison nor are those things the purpose of the gospel. God used an angel and a chain with a lock to do that. The gospel is not any of the things that are done to the wicked like the pit prison or the lake of fire etc.

Again, the gospel is not sealed in the pit with satan nor did the gospel just appear suddenly with an angel from heaven thousands of years after Christ brought the gospel to the world.

The gospel is the good news and the good news is who Jesus is and what He did thus it is the word of God.

This gospel frees whoever believes and receives it as the Holy Spirit reveals the truth of Gods word about who Jesus is and what He did thus it binds satan by deceiving us.

This same gospel the word of God also judges and condemns anyone who rejects it.

Do you now see how the power of the gospel works in two ways as it saves and judges? It can save you if you believe and put your trust in it or put you in spiritual darkness if you reject it

Read over the verses below and see if the sword out of Jesus mouth is a literal weapon or symbolic for His word which is all powerful and either saves or condemns

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Ephesians 4:6
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Revelation 1:16
16 In his right hand he held seven stars,and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

Revelation 2:12 &16
12“And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write:The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this:

16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 19:15 & 21
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.

21The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh

 

[ewq1938]

The gospel is the good news and the good news is who Jesus is and what He did thus it is the word of God.

And the gospel IS NOT a chain that is with satan in the pit.

 

[Marty fox]

And the gospel IS NOT a chain that is with satan in the pit.

It serves the same purpose and has the same effect

Do you think that the sword is literal or symbolic?

 

[ewq1938]

It serves the same purpose and has the same effect

No, a chain is completely opposite of the gospel.

Do you think that the sword literal or symbolic?

Likely symbolic but could be literal if that's what God wants.

 

[Davy]

Did you even read my post I said that no one at my church taught me any of this?

I think that I now understand your replies to me as a few times now when you reply to me you didn’t even read my post

Of course I agree with your last paragraph that’s the message of amil teaching satan is bound by the Holy Spirit over us if we choose to believe

Yeah, I read your post, so what are you whining about? You're the one who keeps saying that Satan is bound by the Gospel, which is not true. Even above you're saying things I NEVER SAID, and you have the audacity to ask me if I READ YOUR POSTS?? You sound like your are under Satan's influence right now, not able to clearly think.

 

[stormymonday]

What is nonsense is the fact that a vast majority of Premils deny the huge impact that Christ's death and resurrection and the subsequent preaching of the gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit had on Satan. The fact that Premils can't recognize that passages like the following are related to the binding of Satan shows how lacking in discernment they are.

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Acts 26:15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Matthew 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

You accuse others of lacking discernment. Is that how you build your case up?

The preaching of the gospel and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ have nothing to do with Satan being BOUND - through the power of the Holy Spirit. That's your DISCERNMENT?

The cross didn't BIND Satan. It destroyed his power over DEATH.

The difference is easily discerned!

Verse 14 of Hebrews 2...

"Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil."

Satan was NOT bound at the time of the crucifixion. His power over death was destroyed. He's still around today stealing, killing, and destroying. The death of Jesus didn't bind Satan, it defeated his power over DEATH.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I know why you associate the two as the same - It debunks Amil!

 

[stormymonday]

It serves the same purpose and has the same effect

Do you think that the sword is literal or symbolic?

No it doesn't. There are over a dozen verses that show the cross destroyed Satan's power over sin and death. I don't think there's even ONE that shows the cross bound Satan!

You guys distort the Word when it doesn't fit your Amil Theology. This is so simple to DISCERN!

 

[ewq1938]

No it doesn't. There are over a dozen verses that show the cross destroyed Satan's power over sin and death. I don't think there's even ONE that shows the cross bound Satan!

There isn't plus Amill likes to ignore the entire imprisonment language in Rev 20, substituting a generic "binding". They do this to change what happens to satan into something that does not happen, satan being "bound" like a dog being hooked to a long chain. This changes the imprisonment into a non-imprisonment or very slight limitation. Instead of not being able to deceive the nations, Amill changes it into him being able to deceive but in a more limited way. He is still free to roam the entire Earth while "chained like a dog", which is the OPPOSITE of what Rev 20 describes.

Amill does not understand what being bound with a chain means, ignores anything to do with the key and lock and sealing, and changes the pit into the entire world rather than a specific place of imprisonment AWAY from the nations.

 

[Marty fox]

No it doesn't. There are over a dozen verses that show the cross destroyed Satan's power over sin and death. I don't think there's even ONE that shows the cross bound Satan!

You guys distort the Word when it doesn't fit your Amil Theology. This is so simple to DISCERN!

The gospel is truth and this truth binds satan by deceiving the nations read Ephesians chapters 2 and 3

Do you ever wonder how the gospel went from a room of people to being spread all over the known world within 30 to 40 years without the use of fast travel, phones and the internet? That sounds like satan being bound by deceiving to me.

Do you also notice that it only says that satan is bound by deceiving the nations and not from doing any evil?