Spotting Heretics

[Instant]

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Heretics, wherever they are found... should be taken seriously as being deceived by the Devil.

Spotting them is very easy.
As.....Every Heretic will believe that they can lose their salvation, as that is THE deception that is found in them all.
Some have really crazy Theology, but, the one common denominator is that they do not believe that Jesus or God = keeps them saved.

So, reader, when you dont believe that Jesus keeps you saved, HIMSELF< or GOD, HIMSELF< then what is left for you to believe that gets you into heaven?
What is it?

THINK !!!!!

Its YOURSELF.....trying to do something.... And that can be..."im holding unto my faith".. or "im keeping commandments", or
"I joined the one true Church".... Or..."im enduring to the end". "My salvation is all about ME ME ME ME doing something, vs, only trusting in Christ to get me to heaven" = which is the REAL FAITH.

See all that? ??
That is YOU Trusting YOU....as you dont TRUST CHRIST or God To get you into heaven, if you are a heretic.
What does that literally mean?
It means your faith is wrong, or broken. And Paul says you are "fallen from GRACE"<... "bewitched"...and "In the Flesh".
It means that Jesus is off the Cross, and YOU are up there on it, as your FAITH.

So, what is the worst thing about heretics as found on a Forum?
Its the fact that they can ruin your faith for life, and most especially the faith of a New Christian.
"christian" forums are deadly regarding a New Believer's Faith.
And that, is the one thing that the Devil wants..
He wants a new Christian to be FAITH DESTROYED, and then their entire life is nothing but nothing for God.

See, if you have a head full of theology and can teach it, then that is actually harmful unless what you teach is based on your correct understanding of the Grace of God as the BLOOD ATONEMENT, that is the foundation of your FAITH.
And when you are trying to keep yourself SAVED, and trying not to go to hell, then that is THE proof that you have no real faith in Christ.
Its gone, or was never there to begin with.

In reality, it is just the opposite. Anyone teaching unconditional security is a heretic, because the Bible does not teach that. The Bible teaches conditional security and gives a lot of examples of behavior that will keep a person from having any inheritance in the Kingdom of God. The heretics that teach OSAS tend to take a handful of scriptures out of context to come up with that teaching.

 

[Instant]

I can prove unconditional eternal security is a lie pretty easy if you believe the Bible. Unconditional means that there is nothing you can do that will keep you out of heaven if you got saved, but notice this.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." There is no mention that there are exceptions because you prayed a sinner's prayer. It is assumed that they know that true Christians are doers of the Word and not hearers only. Those teaching OSAS are deceived. What the false teachers like to do is come back and claim this is speaking of those never saved, and they add verse 11, but notice what it says. "And such were some of you..." That makes it clear that they no longer live a lifestyle of sin. You were that way, but no more. "...but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

This alone proves remaining saved is conditional, because nobody doing these things will have a home in Heaven. If you disagree with me, you are disagreeing with the Bible, and I can give you many more passages that say the same thing.

 

[ScottA]

The entire Church for 1500 years recognized Ignatius as a hero and martyr of the Faith. Clearly he is NOT who Peter warned about as his community (the community of John and the apostles
) remains very much here... Those who rejected these things and left the community, 'drawing others after them'.. Where are their communities now?

You want Jesus? Here's some:

'evey planting not of my Father will be uprooted"

Where is the 2000 year old apostolic community that rejects Ignatius?

Here's some more Jesus:

'for my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him..'

No.. I have not left 'the path of scripture' clearly it testifys of Christ and calls all to come to be united with Him.

All are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum

No, but it was at the beginning of the first 1.500 years that the departure of the church took place. Which Christ too warned of even before the cross, saying:

Matthew 24:44
Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
​

But they were not ready, and began to set up doing church under the guys of men and appointed successors, among whom were false teachers.

As for "every planting not of my Father will be uprooted", here is the root of that departure which puts the church fathers inline to be uprooted:

Matthew 16:17
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
​

It is here that Jesus placed a fork in the path just as Moses had done with Israel, the one fork leading to destruction and the other fork leading to life everlasting--that is, to follow a man, Peter, a man of flesh and blood...or to follow Jesus in building His church upon the Rock of ages and what He had arranged to come from the Father by the Holy Spirit poured out upon "all flesh" beginning a Pentecost. Which has all occurred, just as it is written: The would-be church believing a lie leading to strong delusion, and the actual truth under cover of the Spirit, in the dividing of the sheep from the goats.

 

[ScottA]

I can prove unconditional eternal security is a lie pretty easy if you believe the Bible. Unconditional means that there is nothing you can do that will keep you out of heaven if you got saved, but notice this.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." There is no mention that there are exceptions because you prayed a sinner's prayer. It is assumed that they know that true Christians are doers of the Word and not hearers only. Those teaching OSAS are deceived. What the false teachers like to do is come back and claim this is speaking of those never saved, and they add verse 11, but notice what it says. "And such were some of you..." That makes it clear that they no longer live a lifestyle of sin. You were that way, but no more. "...but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

This alone proves remaining saved is conditional, because nobody doing these things will have a home in Heaven. If you disagree with me, you are disagreeing with the Bible, and I can give you many more passages that say the same thing.

You misunderstand.

The end of condemnation for sins comes when one is "in Christ" (Romans 8:1)--not just those who have heard the good news and call themselves Christians, but rather those, who "no longer live, but Christ lives in them." --But when was it "finished" with Christ? When He first laid down His life, or rather after He had endured to the end while what?--while bearing the sin.

So, you all in your lack of understanding, seeing those who bear their cross and their sins unto the finish--see the person, of whom Christ has come into and now carries their sin since making their burden light--condemning those whom Christ has given His own life even until It is finished. For which He gave this warning:

Matthew 25:40
And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’​

 

[Philip James]

No, but it was at the beginning of the first 1.500 years that the departure of the church took place.

Come now Scott, why stop short and backpedal here. In the letters of Ignatius one can readily identify the One Faith practiced by all the 2000 year old apostolic churches.

Implying that the apostolic structure of the Church, one Bishop in his assigned territory and the presbetyrs and deacons with him , is a creation of men and that the whole Church everywhere fell not just into error, but the same error everywhere, and the Holy Spirit does not act with power to preserve, pass on and correct the Church, is to suggest these communities were abandoned by Christ, yet they are still here..

Where is the community that can challenge their claims? Where is the city on a hill that cannot be hid? The seed that has become a great tree? The stone that has grown to a mountain filling the whole Earth?

and the other fork leading to life everlasting--that is, to follow a man, Peter, a man of flesh and blood

My dear Scott. There is no division between Peter and Jesus, neither with Mary and Jesus, or with any of the Saints and Jesus. The communion of the saints is real!

And we enter into it thus:

I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.


The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?


Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

You claim to be excluded, yet is it not your own lack of faith in the power of the Holy Spirit working to give life to the Church through the Sacraments that excludes you?

Pax et Bonum

 

[ScottA]

Come now Scott, why stop short and backpedal here. In the letters of Ignatius one can readily identify the One Faith practiced by all the 2000 year old apostolic churches.

Implying that the apostolic structure of the Church, one Bishop in his assigned territory and the presbetyrs and deacons with him , is a creation of men and that the whole Church everywhere fell not just into error, but the same error everywhere, and the Holy Spirit does not act with power to preserve, pass on and correct the Church, is to suggest these communities were abandoned by Christ, yet they are still here..

Where is the community that can challenge their claims? Where is the city on a hill that cannot be hid? The seed that has become a great tree? The stone that has grown to a mountain filling the whole Earth?

You are not fully reckoning the truth of scripture foretelling what I am now telling you. It is called "great apostasy"...surely you are aware of it, and that it is a biblical fact.

But I explained, the Father has still initiated and advanced the building of Christ's church by revelations from the Spirit of Truth. As for that city on a hill, both the flesh and blood church and the church of Christ not of flesh and blood, have both carried the water of the gospel. Even so, there was to be weeping and gnashing of teeth, as Christ promised to cut in two those evil servants who did not believe the truth from Him regarding when He would come again. Which is to say, having chosen flesh and blood, they would not see the kingdom until they first see death. Not as a loss of salvation for all, but not unlike Israel who followed the error of their Priests, those who cause many to fall away are judged for their works.

 

[ScottA]

My dear Scott. There is no division between Peter and Jesus, neither with Mary and Jesus, or with any of the Saints and Jesus. The communion of the saints is real!

And we enter into it thus:

I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.


The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?


Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

You claim to be excluded, yet is it not your own lack of faith in the power of the Holy Spirit working to give life to the Church through the Sacraments that excludes you?

Pax et Bonum

I have pointed to that fork in the path, which is scripture presenting a divide, a divide that you are obviously unaware of. But you are correct, it does not include Peter or Mary. As for the communion of the saints, it is (as I said) not unlike Israel, who claimed Abraham as their father, but betrayed Christ, nor did they know Him. Nonetheless, there is grace for the saints, but not all who call Him Lord will enter the kingdom. All of which is written.

As for participations, to one it is a blessing, to another a curse. One shall be taken, another shall be left.

As for exclusions, I/we are not excluded by the Holy Spirit, but by flesh and blood.

 

[Jim B]

Come now Scott, why stop short and backpedal here. In the letters of Ignatius one can readily identify the One Faith practiced by all the 2000 year old apostolic churches.

Implying that the apostolic structure of the Church, one Bishop in his assigned territory and the presbetyrs and deacons with him , is a creation of men and that the whole Church everywhere fell not just into error, but the same error everywhere, and the Holy Spirit does not act with power to preserve, pass on and correct the Church, is to suggest these communities were abandoned by Christ, yet they are still here..

Where is the community that can challenge their claims? Where is the city on a hill that cannot be hid? The seed that has become a great tree? The stone that has grown to a mountain filling the whole Earth?



My dear Scott. There is no division between Peter and Jesus, neither with Mary and Jesus, or with any of the Saints and Jesus. The communion of the saints is real!

And we enter into it thus:

I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.


The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?


Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

You claim to be excluded, yet is it not your own lack of faith in the power of the Holy Spirit working to give life to the Church through the Sacraments that excludes you?

Pax et Bonum

My dear Philip,

Saying that there is no division between Peter and Jesus, neither with Mary and Jesus, or with any of the Saints and Jesus is unScriptural nonsense.

Peter was a deeply flawed sinner whom Jesus called "Satan". He was one of the apostles to the Jews only.
Mary (a sinner) was Jesus mother. They are not the same person! One example: Jesus is alive, his mother is dead.
The saints (a term used incorrectly by the RCC) are not special people. All believers are saints (sanctified in Christ).

The communion of the saints is not real! It is false RCC doctrine.

 

[Jim B]

Come now Scott, why stop short and backpedal here. In the letters of Ignatius one can readily identify the One Faith practiced by all the 2000 year old apostolic churches.

Implying that the apostolic structure of the Church, one Bishop in his assigned territory and the presbetyrs and deacons with him , is a creation of men and that the whole Church everywhere fell not just into error, but the same error everywhere, and the Holy Spirit does not act with power to preserve, pass on and correct the Church, is to suggest these communities were abandoned by Christ, yet they are still here..

Where is the community that can challenge their claims? Where is the city on a hill that cannot be hid? The seed that has become a great tree? The stone that has grown to a mountain filling the whole Earth?



My dear Scott. There is no division between Peter and Jesus, neither with Mary and Jesus, or with any of the Saints and Jesus. The communion of the saints is real!

And we enter into it thus:

I am speaking as to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I am saying.


The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?


Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

You claim to be excluded, yet is it not your own lack of faith in the power of the Holy Spirit working to give life to the Church through the Sacraments that excludes you?

Pax et Bonum

Why do you depict Jesus as a dead man, still on the cross??? Don't you believe what the Bible says about His resurrection? Depicting Him as dead is disgusting!!!

 

[Philip James]

As for the communion of the saints, it is (as I said) not unlike Israel, who claimed Abraham as their father, but betrayed Christ, nor did they know Him.

Wow Scott, just wow.. You have just written off your brethren for 2000 years and clearly are following something that no where in the history of the Church was taught..

The closest thing I would compare it would be the gnostics.. Whose communities died out long ago..

So let me see if I have this right:

On the one side I have a visible community that has clearly been in existance since Christ founded through the apostles..

On the other I have those to whom the Spirit has revelealed the secrect knowledge, and only those born of the Spirit can learn and understand it..

The first you say has betrayed Christ and the second, which has no connection with the community the apostles founded, is Christ's Church..


Your pseudo-gnostiscism is a fairyrale long since repudiated...

No 'secret knowledge' is required, just Faith.

All are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

Pax et Bonum

 

[ScottA]

Wow Scott, just wow.. You have just written off your brethren for 2000 years and clearly are following something that no where in the history of the Church was taught..

The closest thing I would compare it would be the gnostics.. Whose communities died out long ago..

So let me see if I have this right:

On the one side I have a visible community that has clearly been in existance since Christ founded through the apostles..

On the other I have those to whom the Spirit has revelealed the secrect knowledge, and only those born of the Spirit can learn and understand it..

The first you say has betrayed Christ and the second, which has no connection with the community the apostles founded, is Christ's Church..


Your pseudo-gnostiscism is a fairyrale long since repudiated...

No 'secret knowledge' is required, just Faith.

All are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water

Pax et Bonum

Were the Priests of Israel offended, as you now are? Had it been thousands of years? ...Yes.

But don't be confused as those of the past were...the Gnostics believed that the resurrection had already occurred. That is not what I have told you...but rather have confirmed the scriptures regarding the church and false teachers bringing about great apostacy, and Jesus coming when you do not expect, just as He said. And I have also pointed out exactly where the departure from the truth from the Father began, and why...which Jesus made public.

So, no, it is not "secret knowledge", but rather only available to and by the Spirit, and not by the natural man of flesh and blood--just as it is written.

 

[Philip James]

Were the Priests of Israel offended, as you now are?

Offended? No, i am not at all offended.
.
Your kind of spiritism has long since been repudiated in the Church. I welcome the chance to expose you and your lack of roots..

The Gospel really is this easy:

I AM, I love you, come be united with Me!

All are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum

 

[ScottA]

Offended? No, i am not at all offended.
.
Your kind of spiritism has long since been repudiated in the Church. I welcome the chance to expose you and your lack of roots..

The Gospel really is this easy:

I AM, I love you, come be united with Me!

All are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum

Ah...I am so glad you said that!

Yes, yes, repudiating spirit is exactly the problem!!

God is spirit. Can you imagine anything more perfect than the very make up and nature of God? But here you fully admit that "spiritism has long since been repudiated in the Church."

Please tell me you see the error in that--that there may be hope for the church!!

 

[Philip James]

Ah...I am so glad you said that!

Yes, yes, repudiating spirit is exactly the problem!!

God is spirit. Can you imagine anything more perfect than the very make up and nature of God? But here you fully admit that "spiritism has long since been repudiated in the Church."

Please tell me you see the error in that--that there may be hope for the church!!

God is indeed Spirit! He is also the Man, Jesus..

Not all spirits are God, they must be tested.. Any spirit that calls people away from the table of the Lord, and intimate union with He and their brothers and sisters, is not Holy, it is anti-christ..

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Pax et Bonum

 

[GTW27]

Offended? No, i am not at all offended.
.
Your kind of spiritism has long since been repudiated in the Church. I welcome the chance to expose you and your lack of roots..

The Gospel really is this easy:

I AM, I love you, come be united with Me!

All are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum

I AM the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, as The Father knows Me and I know The Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed My Voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepard. For this reason The Father loves Me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have Power to lay it down, and I have Power to take it again; this charge I have received from My Father.

 

[ScottA]

God is indeed Spirit! He is also the Man, Jesus..

Not all spirits are God, they must be tested.. Any spirit that calls people away from the table of the Lord, and intimate union with He and their brothers and sisters, is not Holy, it is anti-christ..

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Pax et Bonum

Good, you know that there were many who went out from following the prescribed path of Christ contrary to that which comes from the Father, to follow flesh and blood.

 

[Philip James]

Good, you know that there were many who went out from following the prescribed path of Christ contrary to that which comes from the Father, to follow flesh and blood.

The path IS the community which is the Church, and that which she offers..

Intimate union with Christ!

all are welcome to come to the Banquet!

Then he said to his servants, 'The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come.

Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.'

The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike, and the hall was filled with guests.

The hall doors are yet open, but for how long?

Nothing convinces me more that the enemy has been released, than that the oldest of heresies that St. John spoje against has begun to once again rear its ugly head..

Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.

Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.

Pax et Bonum

 

[ScottA]

The path IS the community which is the Church, and that which she offers..

Intimate union with Christ!

all are welcome to come to the Banquet!

Then he said to his servants, 'The feast is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy to come.

Go out, therefore, into the main roads and invite to the feast whomever you find.'

The servants went out into the streets and gathered all they found, bad and good alike, and the hall was filled with guests.

The hall doors are yet open, but for how long?

Nothing convinces me more that the enemy has been released, than that the oldest of heresies that St. John spoje against has begun to once again rear its ugly head..

Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city through its gates.

Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.

Pax et Bonum

You are quoting the right words, but do not realize that the early church fathers were those invited but unworthy, having chosen to revere and follow men instead of that which came from the Father. Again, that was the fork in the path and the choice presented by Christ. And followers like yourself are the victims of many false teachers, just as it was foretold to happen.

But don't get me wrong, I do not accuse you, or even them, it is just the fact of was to come, just as it is written. And if you are not willing to believe what was foretold, why believe anything?

Nonetheless the church is intact, and I know the very idea rocks your world...but many who call Him Lord will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Philip James]

You are quoting the right words, but do not realize that the early church fathers were those invited but unworthy,

Again you divorce yourself from the community of the apostles....

If you are not willing to serve the least of your brethren, are you worthy of the call?

Pax et Bonum

 

[ScottA]

Again you divorce yourself from the community of the apostles....

If you are not willing to serve the least of your brethren, are you worthy of the call?

Pax et Bonum

No....but I am rather telling you only that what was foretold is true. Am I not serving you, if I tell you the truth? I am. But why do you believe anything that is written if you are not going to believe it all?

Did you not know this news must surely come someday? It is written.