Spotting Heretics

[Wrangler]

Lol....ok.....so you really don't believe that the Holy Spirit will lead men to the Truth....

I certainly do not think the Holy Spirit will unconditionally lead men to truth, against their will. “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. Matthew 7:21

The Roman Catholic church are the original heretics. Rather than humbly admit the historical facts that support that, you adopt of mocking Spirit, not a Holy Spirit. That really says it all.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For you THE CHURCH is the sum total of all believers. For Christians it is the men in authority in The Church; elders, bishops, cardinals etc. (Hebrews 13:17)

You are terribly ignorant of scripture. But I understand you are not allowed to think any other way than what your men have told you to think, or else be cut off from the life of Christ in communion <snicker>:

"24...His body, which is the church." Colossians 1:24

"27Now you are the body of Christ (the church, see verse above↑), and each of you is a member of it." 1 Corinthians 12:27
​

See? The church is the sum total of all of us members of the body. Wanna argue with Paul? I'm sure you can think of a way to persist in your errant Catholic belief and make it appear that you are not in contradiction to Paul too. Looking forward to it, lol.

 

[Marymog]

So in your opinion Jesus' words have temporal application only? What he said doesn't apply outside of time?

BTW, Peter was called "Satan" by Jesus, was referred to as a "stumbling block" by Jesus, and was told that he had the thoughts of men in mind, not God's Matthew 16

And don't take Matthew 18:18 out of context. It was to his disciples (along with other instructions). It was not said to just the apostles.

If you're going to base your arguments on Scripture, don't quote it out of context and make sure you understand to whom it was said and why.

Or, in your own words, "Read the passages AGAIN! IN CONTEXT"

I have not given my opinion Jim. I have given the 2,000-year teaching of Christianity. What you are giving is your opinion or the opinion (teachings) of men from 500 years ago.

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

You are terribly ignorant of scripture. But I understand you are not allowed to think any other way than what your men have told you to think, or else be cut off from the life of Christ in communion <snicker>:

"24...His body, which is the church." Colossians 1:24

"27Now you are the body of Christ (the church, see verse above↑), and each of you is a member of it." 1 Corinthians 12:27
​

See? The church is the sum total of all of us members of the body. Wanna argue with Paul? I'm sure you can think of a way to persist in your errant Catholic belief and make it appear that you are not in contradiction to Paul too. Looking forward to it, lol.

It is factual Ferris that true believers are members of the church. Because logically if you don't truly believe then you can't be a member.

I think you would say that Catholics are not true believers. And you would probably say that MANY denominations are not true believers. Sooooooo who sets the criteria for a true believer Ferris? You and YOUR church? The funniest part about this entire conversation; you chide me for listening to my men but then repeat what your men say to prove my men wrong!

So, Ferris, what have your men taught you on how 1 Timothy 3:15 fits into your sum total of all believers are the church? That passage calls the church the pillar and foundation of truth. You have never revealed, and I don't think I have ever asked so I don't know, how many people are in your church? I will just say 1,000. Are all 1,000 members of your church the "pillar and foundation of truth"? There are over 1 billion members of my church and I do not believe that all 1 billion are the pillar and foundation of truth. Also, who in your 1,000-member church are you submissive to Ferris (Hebrews 13:17)? Who in your church fulfils James 5:14? I can answer those questions for my church; can you answer for yours?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I certainly do not think the Holy Spirit will unconditionally lead men to truth, against their will. “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. Matthew 7:21

The Roman Catholic church are the original heretics. Rather than humbly admit the historical facts that support that, you adopt of mocking Spirit, not a Holy Spirit. That really says it all.

No, the Holy Spirit will not lead men to the Truth against their will. But YOUR men have been led to the Truth....which means YOUR men are not heretics because you KNOW that YOUR MEN are guided by the Holy Spirit.

BTW...I am not mocking. I am simply putting you on the spot and I suspect you see how ludicrous your arguments are...but you will never admit they are. Will you?

AND, thank you for recognizing the Catholic Church as the original church. My my how far you have fallen from the original church

 

[Wrangler]

AND, thank you for recognizing the Catholic Church as the original church. My my how far you have fallen from the original church

My, my, how you've fallen from grace ... You left out the word heretical. The Roman Catholic Church is the original heretical church.

And you do have a mocking Spirit. This is not the Holy Spirit.

Pride Catholics have in their denomination supplating the role of Christ and God explains when I was in that cult why many others said they were Christian not Catholic - AS IF Catholic is not Christian. I see it now. It pains me that so many are so lost. You are an adverse witness.

is a witness at trial whose testimony on direct examination is either openly antagonistic or appears to be contrary to the legal theological position of the party who called the witness, God.​

 

[Marymog]

My, my, how you've fallen from grace ... You left out the word heretical. The Roman Catholic Church is the original heretical church.

And you do have a mocking Spirit. This is not the Holy Spirit.

Pride Catholics have in their denomination supplating the role of Christ and God explains when I was in that cult why many others said they were Christian not Catholic - AS IF Catholic is not Christian. I see it now. It pains me that so many are so lost. You are an adverse witness.

is a witness at trial whose testimony on direct examination is either openly antagonistic or appears to be contrary to the legal theological position of the party who called the witness, God.​

Hmmm.....so YOU decide what church is heretical? And the Spirit revealed this to you? You crack me up wrangler....

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The funniest part about this entire conversation; you chide me for listening to my men but then repeat what your men say to prove my men wrong!

I repeat what the BIBLE authors say. Those are 'my men'. Your men are your Catholic leaders because you are forbidden from holding any other doctrinal beliefs that THEY have not given you. And you are not allowed to deviate from them or else you will cut off from Christ by being refused communion <snicker>. YOU are the one that listens to 'your men'. Not me, lol!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think you would say that Catholics are not true believers.

Most are not because yours is a works justification religion.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Sooooooo who sets the criteria for a true believer Ferris? You and YOUR church?

The Bible authors.
Good grief! Why is this so hard for you? It's because you are so brainwashed and removed from the truth by your Catholic indoctrinations. You literally are incapable of thinking outside of your Catholic box.

 

[Marymog]

The Bible authors.
Good grief! Why is this so hard for you? It's because you are so brainwashed and removed from the truth by your Catholic indoctrinations. You literally are incapable of thinking outside of your Catholic box.

Lol…soooo what bible author is alive today to guide you and your men ? None! Would you care to try and give a logical answer?

 

[Marymog]

Most are not because yours is a works justification religion.

Faith, without works, is dead. So we teach as Scripture teaches: Faith + Works = justification

Your men havn’t taught you all of Scripture…Have they?

 

[Marymog]

I repeat what the BIBLE authors say. Those are 'my men'. Your men are your Catholic leaders because you are forbidden from holding any other doctrinal beliefs that THEY have not given you. And you are not allowed to deviate from them or else you will cut off from Christ by being refused communion <snicker>. YOU are the one that listens to 'your men'. Not me, lol!

Well, I don’t see anything in your post that is a repeat of what the Bible says soooo that means you have only given your opinion.

Also kiddo, a Christian doctrine is a Truth taught by Christianity. Maybe you think that you can deviate from the Truth but I refuse to.

Do you ever read what you write?

 

[Marymog]

OMGosh, are you really that dense, or are you just stubborn, lol?
The passage is about if someone sins against you.
And all it takes is for the parties involved to offer forgiveness and receive it and the matter is thus settled in heaven and earth. No popes needed. No cardinals, no bishops, no special ceremonies or rituals.

If alls it takes are the parties involved then why does Scripture say take it to 1-2 other brothers? And if they refuse to listen to the 2-3 of us take it to the church? Can you not see how contradicting you are?

If my brother refuses to listen to me (the church according to you) then he is refusing to listen to the church. Why do I have to go get 1-2 other people (1-2 other churches) to prove him wrong? Why do the 3 of us then have to go the another church and if he refuses to listen to another church he is to be treated as a pagan? How many people have to tell him he committed a sin? After all, wouldn’t me (the church) telling him suffice? Can you really not see how you are contradicting yourself? Your theory is that EVERYONE is the church which means everyone is the pillar and foundation of truth.

Can you REALLY not see how your theory is unworkable and not in line with Scripture?

 

[Marymog]

KNOCK, KNOCK!
The passage is about FORGIVENESS. NOT DOCTRINE!
When God in heaven sees two brothers embraced in forgiveness God sees it and the matter is settled in heaven.

Not true. It is about forgiveness AND denial of sin. If my brother denies he committed a sin I can still forgive him, but he has still committed a sin AND is kicked out of the church until he admits it is a sin. Do you REALLY not see that in those passages?

But according to your theory, that each individual is the church, he is kicked out of me and not the congregation….

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Not true. It is about forgiveness AND denial of sin. If my brother denies he committed a sin I can still forgive him, but he has still committed a sin AND is kicked out of the church until he admits it is a sin. Do you REALLY not see that in those passages?

But according to your theory, that each individual is the church, he is kicked out of me and not the congregation….

This is one of the sorriest attempts to not be wrong that I've ever seen, lol!

 

[Wrangler]

If alls it takes are the parties involved then why does Scripture say take it to 1-2 other brothers? And if they refuse to listen to the 2-3 of us take it to the church?

Sister, you are lost!

A management principle is in play here; handle things at the lowest level of management. The reason Scripture adds above and beyond the parties involved is ... what for it ... ESCALATION.

For some reason, you are presuming 'the church' referenced in Scripture is the Roman Catholic Church, when it simply means ones congregation. The Gospel is simple and practical. You are desperately trying to make it complicated to the point one must abdicate their thinking minds to the modern day Pharisees, their spiritual superiors, the RCC hierarchy.

 

[Wrangler]

Lol…soooo what bible author is alive today to guide you and your men ? None!

Wow! It's like no author's written words can be understood once they die, to your way of thinking. What you write is backwards from reality. Humans are the only species that can transmit knowledge from one generation to the next. In all areas of human experience, we can read and understand the author. This phenomena of tranferring knowledge generationally, even after ancient authors have passed away, is not exclusive to Protestant theology.

The author's words, read in the Spirit, are our guide. Simple.

 

[Wrangler]

Hmmm.....so YOU decide what church is heretical?

It's not a judgement but historical fact. No more than it is MY decision that the Roman Empire has collapsed, Columbus disovered the New World, the Wright Brothers invented the air plane, etc.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For some reason, you are presuming 'the church' referenced in Scripture is the Roman Catholic Church

That is the very stumbling block that all the Catholics I've talked to in this forum stumble over. They've already got it incorrectly indoctrinated in their minds that when they see 'church' it means 'the Catholic church hierarchy'. That's why they have no light in this matter.