Strange Fire - A Pentecostal Response

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rockytopva

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The biggest problem in the contemporary charismatic Pentecostal church of America is certainly not “strange fire.” It is the lack of fire—Holy Spirit fire, divine fire, the fire of visitation, the fire of Pentecost.

Is there some “strange fire” in our midst, some fleshly manifestations and hyped-up emotional displays? I’m sure there is, but it probably represents a tiny percentage of what actually happens in most charismatic Pentecostal churches in America today.

Instead, we have a “charismatic form of worship,” meaning we sing contemporary songs (as if this was somehow cutting edge), we raise our hands, we might even raise our voices (a little), there might be the same old tired prophecy repeated yet again and some scattered utterances in tongues, and a few people might even dance in the aisles—and that’s about it.

Oh, we may have prayer for the sick at the end of the service, and some people might even be “slain in the Spirit” (which is wonderful if the Spirit really touches someone but otherwise meaningless).

But where is the divine visitation?
Where is the demonstration of the power of God?
Where is the soul-shaking encounter with the risen Lord?
Where is the outpouring of deep repentance, the instantaneous deliverance of lifelong bondages, the sudden outbreak of miraculous healings?
Where are the prophetic words that bring the sinner to his knees in a revelation of the reality of God?
Where is the move of God that takes our breath away, the extraordinary nearness of heaven in worship that radically changes our perspective in a moment of time?

I am grateful to God for those churches where the Spirit is really moving, but truth be told, there are plenty of our churches that go months—or even years—without seeing a single true convert, that can’t remember the last documented healing, that can hardly point to a significant prophetic word, that haven’t had a Sunday morning service in memory that went on for hours because God was working so powerfully.

Yet we call ourselves Pentecostal and charismatic. Why?

We have gotten so far away from the real power of Pentecost that many of our people don’t even speak in tongues—or if they once did, they hardly do anymore. In fact, some of the professors at our “Pentecostal” Bible colleges don’t even believe in speaking in tongues, let alone practice it.

And we are “Pentecostal”? In what sense?

I wonder how many of today’s American charismatic Pentecostal leaders would have been more at home with the mockers in Acts 2:13 who said, “They are filled with new wine” (ESV), rather than with those who were amazed and perplexed and heard the praises of God (vv. 7-12).

I wonder how many of our congregants would have been like the inhabitants of the Gadarenes who begged Jesus to leave because his presence was too disruptive (Mark 5:1-20).

I wonder how many of us would have run out of the Azusa Street meetings more than 100 years ago, saying, “This is not of God!”

No, “strange fire” is hardly our problem today. It is the lack of fire.

And rather than get on our faces and repent of our busyness and carnality and compromise, we have leaned on the arm of the flesh, substituting the latest business plan for the leading of the Spirit and the latest worldly innovation—especially if it’s trending on Twitter—for the holy Word on fire. In fact, we are more at home with marketing and media than with the manifestation of God.

And rather than cry out for the moving of the Spirit—with all the upheaval and shaking that it brings—we have wanted to prove to the rest of the church (and even the world) that we are sophisticated, that we have degrees and titles like everyone else, that we are balanced and refined. We even have ministerial robes!

But none of that can make up for the absence of divine fire, and if there was ever a time in our history that we needed a fresh outpouring, a fresh wave of revival, a fresh move of the Spirit, it is now.

Something deep inside me tells me that divine visitation is near.
But will we welcome it? Will we welcome the Spirit of Pentecost when He comes?

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/40327-lack-of-fire-the-true-crisis-in-the-contemporary-charismatic-church
 
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Dodo_David

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The power of God can be seen in the changed lives of people who have turned to Messiah Jesus for eternal life.

God doesn't have to put on a show for people in order to display His power.

In 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 (ESV), the Apostle Paul writes the following:
7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
The power of God was seen in Paul's life despite the fact that God did not grant Paul the physical healing that he asked for.

Today, the power of God is seen in churches all over the world as people give their lives to Jesus and are baptized into the Christian faith.
 
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Angelina

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One thing that bothers me about the Pentecostal Church at the moment is the direction it seems to be flowing in. I'm not sure whether it has to do with God's calling for the Church or whether they have been subtly influenced by the Warren's and the Osteen's of the day. Ephesians 4 says:

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

The Pentecostal movement seems to be using the Church as the ministry rather than equipping the saint's for the work of the ministry. I have noted that not all Pastors are Pastoral but have other gifts which they administer to steer the direction of the Church and leave the Pastoral side to others in their Leadership team.

I do not think that this is right and I hope that the Church goes back to it's original mandate of "equipping the saint's for the work of the ministry" rather than using the gifts that the saint's carry for their own personal mandate as Pastor over the Church. Each individual member of a Church has a group of unbelieving family, friends and neighbors. Friendship evangelism. The growth of a Church comes mainly through individuals evangelizing in their own sphere of influence...not as a body corporate....just something to think about. :huh:
 

aspen

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what is wrong with rick warren?
 

Angelina

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Arnie Manitoba

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Very good OP Rocky

(I am Pentecostal) but I think we go wrong when we think we should be triggering the following ....
(Quoted from OP)
But where is the divine visitation?
Where is the demonstration of the power of God?
Where is the soul-shaking encounter with the risen Lord?
Where is the outpouring of deep repentance, the instantaneous deliverance of lifelong bondages, the sudden outbreak of miraculous healings?
Where are the prophetic words that bring the sinner to his knees in a revelation of the reality of God?
Where is the move of God that takes our breath away, the extraordinary nearness of heaven in worship that radically changes our perspective in a moment of time?

I think maybe God Himself decides when and where these things happen. Hope that makes sense. God is not at our beck and call to demonstrate himself when we feel He should. God wants us to be saved .... and if we are , why should He keep demonstrating Himself over and over to us. It amounts to entertainment on demand.

Another thing to consider is that the early Pentecostals were already Christians .... so it was more a creation of a new denomination for people who spoke in tongues (among other things) .... sure they had revivals and brought new converts to salvation .... but so did the non-charismatic churches

I find it interesting that the Pentecostal Church I attended years ago grew only by bringing (stealing) hundreds of Christians from other denominations in town .... I only know of one or two who were actually new converts to Christ. Membership grew because it was the new "alive church" fad of the time .... years later most of them migrated back to their original denominations when they realized it was more charismatic hype than anything else...

I feel one of the greatest contributions the Charismatics have made is the genuine open emotional worship services .... beats the heck out of the rigid stiff dull and boring churches.

I feel it is a matter of false pride for the Charismatic to feel he has a better and more Holy Spirit than other believers.

Those feelings of pride and exclusiveness have lead to some strange practices in some settings.
 

rockytopva

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Well... With we Pentecostal / Charismatics the buck stops here. If we are not walking close to the Lord we have no one to blame but ourselves. No other group to blame!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMxfCVeCt_s
 

Dodo_David

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Like or not, even we Christians can be guilty of wanting to see a show, of wanting to experience an emotional high.
So, we can easily make the mistake of believing that an experience is of the Holy Spirit if it is emotional pleasing to us.

Shucks, sometimes we will claim that an experience is of the Holy Spirit even when there is no biblical basis for it or when the experience contradicts what the Bible says.

For example, the "slain in the Spirit" custom isn't biblical at all.
In the New Testament, the only people who fell down when encountering Jesus were the enemies of Jesus.
The believers in Jesus didn't fall down at all.

Yet, because being "slain in the Spirit" is emotionally pleasing, it is accepted.

Also, in 1 Corinthians 14, the Apostle Paul explains that a person is speaking to God whenever that person is speaking in biblical tongues. Speaking to God is what we call prayer. So, a genuine interpretation of biblical tongues will be a prayer to God.

So, what frequently happens whenever someone allegedly speaks in biblical tongues during a worship service?

Answer: The interpretation isn't a prayer to God. Instead, the interpretation is an alleged message from God, contrary to what the Apostle Paul wrote. Yet, because the interpretation is emotionally pleasing, it is accepted.

Then there is the insistence that miraculous healing must take place should someone have a disease or disability.
As I mention in my previous post in this thread, the Apostle Paul asked the LORD to heal him of his disease. Paul asked 3 times, and 3 times the Lord said "No."

Plenty of Christians experience the power of the Holy Spirit without ever falling down during a church service.

Plenty of Christians experience the power of the Holy Spirit without ever hearing a prayer in biblical tongues during a church service.

Plenty of Christians experience the power of the Holy Spirit without being miraculously healed of diseases and disabilities.

The power of the Holy Spirit is seen in the healing of broken lives and broken relationships.
The power of the Holy Spirit is seen whenever people repent of their sins and give their lives to the Savior.
 

rockytopva

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Dead give aways to tell if someone is of the Sardisean church age...

1. They label anything spiritual as 'emotional'
2. Everything must fit within their doctrinal cofines.
3. They cannot imagine anyone outside of their confines as actually saved.

With these three tests reveal your true, blue stocking, Sardisean.
 

Dodo_David

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rockytopva said:
Dead give aways to tell if someone is of the Sardisean church age...

1. They label anything spiritual as 'emotional'
2. Everything must fit within their doctrinal cofines.
3. They cannot imagine anyone outside of their confines as actually saved.

With these three tests reveal your true, blue stocking, Sardisean.
Wow, what ad hominem that is.

I compare certain customs to what the Bible says, and for that I am labeled a Sardisean. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the power of the Holy Spirit is on display in numerous churches where there are none of the displays mentioned in the OP.

Plenty of people have been brought close to God during worship services that don't feature the things mentioned in the OP.
 

rockytopva

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Dodo_David said:
Wow, what ad hominem that is.

I compare certain customs to what the Bible says, and for that I am labeled a Sardisean. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Anyway, the power of the Holy Spirit is on display in numerous churches where there are none of the displays mentioned in the OP.

Plenty of people have been brought close to God during worship services that don't feature the things mentioned in the OP.
In which, I am a supporter of both the bbnradio and trbc ministries, so I did not say they were not saved or edifying. But... If you want a revival then you must employ your spiritual man as well as the intellectual.
 

Angelina

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If you have never experienced such things...it is hard to describe...

I have been in Churches where people have been miraculously healed...I have been miraculously healed in a service as well. I have also been miraculously healed outside the Church. I have fallen of the roof of my house landing on my back on concrete steps and got up and walked away without any injuries. I have fallen into a huge crevice about the depth of a two-storied building onto my stomach and got up and walked away unscathed. I am pretty much the type who "goes in with eyes wide open" and have experienced being slain in the Spirit. There is such a heaviness of the presence of God in that experience and a reverence attributed to one who is experiencing death of their old life and resurrection of a renewed life in Christ Jesus. This is where God sometimes deals with the heart....



So, what frequently happens whenever someone allegedly speaks in biblical tongues during a worship service?
Answer: The interpretation isn't a prayer to God. Instead, the interpretation is an alleged message from God, contrary to what the Apostle Paul wrote. Yet, because the interpretation is emotionally pleasing, it is accepted.
The bible says that tongues are for a sign for unbelievers...

1 Corinthians 14
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Oh...and here is the "falling face down " thing
25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

Bless you!
 

Tropical Islander

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And that's the exact problem of experience based religion. People that administer "being slain in the Spirit" to other people on command, are really far removed from anything the scriptures attribute the Holy Spirit as being doing. I totally agree with Alf, ehh Dodo David on this one. Scriptures have been a closed canon, at least until one man in California in 1906 or so had an experience. And the exitement about that spread because subjective experience started to take over the Bible as the final authority at around that time.

The strongest show in that "slain department" is performed by Benny Hinn, he got that down to an art form, on a mass scale. The only similarity I have ever seen is a local non-religious stage performer that simply touches his audience one by one very quickly on the head and they all are "slain in the spirit" immediately. It has nothing to do with a spirit that is holy, it's part of mesmerism and actually you would call it the occult. Just like the "faith in your faith" of Benny has nothing to do with Biblical faith, it's also an essential part in occultism. He controls the power, not God, he can repeat it whenever he wants on command, just like the local magic trick artist, and it works every time, no waiting on God neccessary.

And that has been the problem with the pentecostal - charismatic movement ever since it came over the ocean as the latest import, no or almost no discernment, they absolutely draw a blank when dividing the holy from the occult, and to make this happen you have to lower the value of the Bible, which they successful accomplished. Now it's up to the individual what's right in their own eyes. The religion of self. Since there are some real believers inside all denominations you cannot lump all into the same category as the TBN crowd. However when you read what people like Osteen, Warren, Copeland and Hinn actually believe and write in their books und you claim The Holy Spirit of thruth in connection to these grass distortions of the true gospel, you have to wonder how long Jesus still accept these people to profane his name to such large audiences.

The most shocking thing to me was when I read a book about hand signals and symbolism that also pictured many of these famous people while they communicate to their true peers in sign language. Outing themsleves as what they really stand for, some of them are not even Christians in private life, and some are 33rd degree freemasons, and I hope you all understand what these believe and who these people worship.

I actually listened to the complete MacArthur conference, he is not a critic that invents reasons where there are not real bright red warning signs all over the place. His value judgments are substantial and most of his critics simply have not enough scriptural backup to even stand a chance to prove him wrong. MacArthur's problem is different one, he teaches one particular endtimes doctrine that is very dangerous and will possibly lead to some of his followers mistankingly accept the mark of the beast. Unfortunatey this is a very sad fact, and the reason I will not listen to anything he will publish in the future. Neither has Charisma magazine any credibility left. What they need is the gift of discernment, they absolutely lack there and are found wanting.
 

rockytopva

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I understand (and grieve) that there are counterfeits. But there is also the real thing. The guy below would shout, run the aisles, and speak in tongues. As I put up hay with him I found that this was a genuine joy and love that this guy demonstrated at work, church, and at home I was brought up Baptist and thought that all of this was of the devil. When I experienced it for myself I found something very real indeed.

Dallas_zps81e23487.jpg
 

Angelina

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Tropical Islander said:
And that's the exact problem of experience based religion. People that administer "being slain in the Spirit" to other people on command, are really far removed from anything the scriptures attribute the Holy Spirit as being doing. I totally agree with Alf, ehh Dodo David on this one. Scriptures have been a closed canon, at least until one man in California in 1906 or so had an experience. And the exitement about that spread because subjective experience started to take over the Bible as the final authority at around that time.

The strongest show in that "slain department" is performed by Benny Hinn, he got that down to an art form, on a mass scale. The only similarity I have ever seen is a local non-religious stage performer that simply touches his audience one by one very quickly on the head and they all are "slain in the spirit" immediately. It has nothing to do with a spirit that is holy, it's part of mesmerism and actually you would call it the occult. Just like the "faith in your faith" of Benny has nothing to do with Biblical faith, it's also an essential part in occultism. He controls the power, not God, he can repeat it whenever he wants on command, just like the local magic trick artist, and it works every time, no waiting on God neccessary.

And that has been the problem with the pentecostal - charismatic movement ever since it came over the ocean as the latest import, no or almost no discernment, they absolutely draw a blank when dividing the holy from the occult, and to make this happen you have to lower the value of the Bible, which they successful accomplished. Now it's up to the individual what's right in their own eyes. The religion of self. Since there are some real believers inside all denominations you cannot lump all into the same category as the TBN crowd. However when you read what people like Osteen, Warren, Copeland and Hinn actually believe and write in their books und you claim The Holy Spirit of thruth in connection to these grass distortions of the true gospel, you have to wonder how long Jesus still accept these people to profane his name to such large audiences.

The most shocking thing to me was when I read a book about hand signals and symbolism that also pictured many of these famous people while they communicate to their true peers in sign language. Outing themsleves as what they really stand for, some of them are not even Christians in private life, and some are 33rd degree freemasons, and I hope you all understand what these believe and who these people worship.

I actually listened to the complete MacArthur conference, he is not a critic that invents reasons where there are not real bright red warning signs all over the place. His value judgments are substantial and most of his critics simply have not enough scriptural backup to even stand a chance to prove him wrong. MacArthur's problem is different one, he teaches one particular endtimes doctrine that is very dangerous and will possibly lead to some of his followers mistankingly accept the mark of the beast. Unfortunatey this is a very sad fact, and the reason I will not listen to anything he will publish in the future. Neither has Charisma magazine any credibility left. What they need is the gift of discernment, they absolutely lack there and are found wanting.
I'd be very careful saying that something that is of the Holy Spirit is actually of the occult unless you have some form of verification to the contrary. I can recall Jesus having the same discussion with the Pharisees when they said that he cast out demons by beelzebub the ruler of demons and what was his response?

Matthew 12
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

You do not have to believe my testimony but it is indeed the truth. :)

Shalom!!!
 

rockytopva

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The whole group of that generation was that way. During a good revival the men would pray on the left side and the woman on the right. As the evangelist would pray for people they would fall out in the spirit and sometimes would have to be carried out of church. The gentlemen of this generation would all be on the first front pews of the church weeping. One in particular, a Mr Evans Linkous, would sit there with tears soaking his shirt. When he would look back and catch my amazed look, he would reply, in great emotion, with a finger pointed at the alter... The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!

My goodness would I love to go back in time and experience all of that over again!
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Dallas_zps81e23487.jpg
 

Apocalypticist

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Angelina said:
If you have never experienced such things...it is hard to describe...

I have been in Churches where people have been miraculously healed...I have been miraculously healed in a service as well. I have also been miraculously healed outside the Church. I have fallen of the roof of my house landing on my back on concrete steps and got up and walked away without any injuries. I have fallen into a huge crevice about the depth of a two-storied building onto my stomach and got up and walked away unscathed. I am pretty much the type who "goes in with eyes wide open" and have experienced being slain in the Spirit. There is such a heaviness of the presence of God in that experience and a reverence attributed to one who is experiencing death of their old life and resurrection of a renewed life in Christ Jesus. This is where God sometimes deals with the heart....




The bible says that tongues are for a sign for unbelievers...

1 Corinthians 14
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Oh...and here is the "falling face down " thing
25 And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.

Bless you!
You saw all those miracles but you still deny prophets. And then you quote Ephesians "gave some to be apostles, prophets..."

John MacArthur denies prophets too. Maybe you should study his material. I bought a book from him yesterday. I think his criticisms are mostly well thought out but I'm no subscriber to either his Baptist, Calvinist, or anti-Pentecostal urges. But he's actually a great insightful commentator who anyone can benefit greatly from reading.
 

Apocalypticist

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Mr.Bride said:
Oh that sounded like a time rockytopva. I pray for an old-fashioned Holy Ghost revival to sweep through my parts soon.
'That day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first.' There is no more outpouring coming. Times have changed. We are living in a time similar to AD 69, just before the glory cloud departed and Jerusalem was laid siege.

lit. Jesus will not return until after the apostasy. When you're calling for another outpouring that means the Lord's coming would be delayed.
 

rockytopva

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I find that what I experienced was nineteenth century Methodism that was kept alive long enough for me to get a taste of it... The Methods of 'getting religion' were the same that I experienced...

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18564-the-life-of-george-clark-rankin/

Excerpts...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin

Then he got it good in the Methodist church in Georgia...

After the team had been fed and we had been to supper we put the mules to the wagon, filled it with chairs and we were off to the meeting. When we reached the locality it was about dark and the people were assembling. Their horses and wagons filled up the cleared spaces and the singing was already in progress. My uncle and his family went well up toward the front, but I dropped into a seat well to the rear. It was an old-fashioned Church, ancient in appearance, oblong in shape and unpretentious. It was situated in a grove about one hundred yards from the road. It was lighted with old tallow-dip candles furnished by the neighbors. It was not a prepossessing-looking place, but it was soon crowded and evidently there was a great deal of interest. A cadaverous-looking man stood up in front with a tuning fork and raised and led the songs. There were a few prayers and the minister came in with his saddlebags and entered the pulpit. He was the Rev. W. H. Heath, the circuit rider. His prayer impressed me with his earnestness and there were many amens to it in the audience. I do not remember his text, but it was a typical revival sermon, full of unction and power.

At its close he invited penitents to the altar and a great many young people flocked to it and bowed for prayer. Many of them became very much affected and they cried out distressingly for mercy. It had a strange effect on me. It made me nervous and I wanted to retire. Directly my uncle came back to me, put his arm around my shoulder and asked me if I did not want to be religious. I told him that I had always had that desire, that mother had brought me up that way, and really I did not know anything else. Then he wanted to know if I had ever professed religion. I hardly understood what he meant and did not answer him. He changed his question and asked me if I had ever been to the altar for prayer, and I answered him in the negative. Then he earnestly besought me to let him take me up to the altar and join the others in being prayed for. It really embarrassed me and I hardly knew what to say to him. He spoke to me of my mother and said that when she was a little girl she went to the altar and that Christ accepted her and she had been a good Christian all these years. That touched me in a tender spot, for mother always did do what was right; and then I was far away from her and wanted to see her. Oh, if she were there to tell me what to do!

By and by I yielded to his entreaty and he led forward to the altar. The minister took me by the hand and spoke tenderly to me as I knelt at the altar. I had gone more out of sympathy than conviction, and I did not know what to do after I bowed there. The others were praying aloud and now and then one would rise shoutingly happy and make the old building ring with his glad praise. It was a novel experience to me. I did not know what to pray for, neither did I know what to expect if I did pray. I spent the most of the hour wondering why I was there and what it all meant. No one explained anything to me. Once in awhile some good old brother or sister would pass my way, strike me on the back and tell me to look up and believe and the blessing would come. But that was not encouraging to me. In fact, it sounded like nonsense and the noise was distracting me. Even in my crude way of thinking I had an idea that religion was a sensible thing and that people ought to become religious intelligently and without all that hurrah. I presume that my ideas were the result of the Presbyterian training given to me by old grandfather. By and by my knees grew tired and the skin was nearly rubbed off my elbows. I thought the service never would close, and when it did conclude with the benediction I heaved a sigh of relief. That was my first experience at the mourner's bench.

As we drove home I did not have much to say, but I listened attentively to the conversation between my uncle and his wife. They were greatly impressed with the meeting, and they spoke first of this one and that one who had "come through" and what a change it would make in the community, as many of them were bad boys. As we were putting up the team my uncle spoke very encouragingly to me; he was delighted with the step I had taken and he pleaded with me not to turn back, but to press on until I found the pearl of great price. He knew my mother would be very happy over the start I had made. Before going to sleep I fell into a train of thought, though I was tired and exhausted. I wondered why I had gone to that altar and what I had gained by it. I felt no special conviction and had received no special impression, but then if my mother had started that way there must be something in it, for she always did what was right. I silently lifted my heart to God in prayer for conviction and guidance. I knew how to pray, for I had come up through prayer, but not the mourner's bench sort. So I determined to continue to attend the meeting and keep on going to the altar until I got religion.

Early the next morning I was up and in a serious frame of mind. I went with the other hands to the cottonfield and at noon I slipped off in the barn and prayed. But the more I thought of the way those young people were moved in the meeting and with what glad hearts they had shouted their praises to God the more it puzzled and confused me. I could not feel the conviction that they had and my heart did not feel melted and tender. I was callous and unmoved in feeling and my distress on account of sin was nothing like theirs. I did not understand my own state of mind and heart. It troubled me, for by this time I really wanted to have an experience like theirs.

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me:

"Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.
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Page 240

The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.

I had associated with me that year a young collegemate, Rev. W. B. Stradley. He was a bright, popular fellow, and we managed to give Wytheville regular Sunday preaching. Stradley became a great preacher and died a few years ago while pastor of Trinity Church, Atlanta, Georgia. We were true yokefellows and did a great work on that charge, held fine revivals and had large ingatherings.

The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.

One morning in the beginning of the service he was to preach and he called the people to prayer. He prayed loud and long and told the Lord just what sort of a meeting we were expecting and really exhorted the people as to their conduct on the grounds. Among other things, he said we wanted no horse- trading and then related that just before kneeling he had seen a man just outside the encampment looking into the mouth of a horse and he made such a peculiar sound as he described the incident that I lifted up my head to look at him, and he was holding his mouth open with his hands just as the man had done in looking into the horse's mouth! But he was a man of power and wrought well for the Church and for humanity.

Page 241

The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.

He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.

He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.

It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffy.
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