Stumbling Block verses

[Nancy]

for ourselves anyway, yeh?
Exodus 20:19 Lexicon: Then they said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die."

iow i am scared of the Theos you love, wadr

Um Mark, those are not my words...I think you mixed up your post.

 

[Philip James]

Have you ever heard of martyrs?

Is God not pleased that people remain His witnesses unto death?

Of course! This is what I am saying. Those who are righteous and witnesses to righteousness and suffer for that please God.
Their endurance merits HiS grace when they offer their suffering on behalf of others.
Jesus righteousness and endurance was perfect, and His suffering was offered on behalf of the whole world.

Satan gets nothing.

Peace!

 

[Episkopos]

Of course! This is what I am saying. Those who are righteous and witnesses to righteousness and suffer for that please God.
Their endurance merits HiS grace when they offer their suffering on behalf of others.
Jesus righteousness and endurance was perfect, and His suffering was offered on behalf of the whole world.

Satan gets nothing.

Peace!

Never said he did. But will you deny that Jesus shed His blood here on earth under the dominion of Satan?

Do you deny that Jesus really died? (bodily speaking of course)

I see...as usual...a quick response without taking the trouble to look up what I spoke of.

And people wonder why I ignore so many people.

The art of conversation...and honesty...are long gone in our time.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In the real world I posted this thread based on a misappropriation of the meaning of a text...turning the truth of God into a lie.

I used actual bible verses....just go back to the beginning of this thread to see if those verses are still there.

I also showed how people get the verses wrong.

You are proving my point. So you don't remember that I did indeed post bible verses. Because you are going by interpretations...not what is there.

Go back to the OP and the first posts to see what I'm speaking of.

Episkopos, if you are referring to Post #3, I was talking about dealing with scriptures in their context. I used those words for a reason, specifically because of what many do, and you yourself did. This is EXACTLY what I have a problem with when it comes to your theologizing. You cheery pick a verse here and cheery pick a verse there, throw it together in a soup with all the verses taken out of context, and then start theorizing all over the place! I'm talking about dealing with entire passages IN THEIR CONTEXT.

I better go. You're starting to aggravate me, LoL.

 

[Philip James]

Never said he did. But will you deny that Jesus shed His blood here on earth under the dominion of Satan?

Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above. For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin."

Do you deny that Jesus really died? (bodily speaking of course)

No. I deny that Jesus offered that death to the enemy rather than to the Father.


how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to worship the living God.

Peace be with you!

 

[Enoch111]

This is EXACTLY what I have a problem with when it comes to your theologizing.

I had already pointed out to everyone that episkopos is manufacturing his own theology. So it it best to leave him to his own Gnostic devices.

 

[Ezra]

Salvation is about life...not death (of course one must pass through death to see life). The wages of sin is death. But the gift of God is life....eternal life. God is not a God of death. In Him...is life.

Rom. 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.


Not justification of death?

If life, the life of Jesus, justifies us...and not His death...or beliefs about His death...then what of the death of Jesus?

Well, the death of Jesus is the price paid for our sins....but this is not a human transaction. It is God's transaction.

We cannot be involved in that transaction. We did not offer up Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins. God did. So He holds all the cards so to speak. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not the church...and God retains the initiative to apply that sacrifice on whomever He wishes.

So God is the God of all flesh. That is the universal aspect of salvation (no one can justify himself...no...not even Christians).

But we can KNOW we have life when we walk in that new life which is at a whole other level of experience and love, joy and peace. To walk in His resurrection life. Surely we can experience the justification of God through the permission in the way of a gift ...to walk in His life.

i will gladly address this and the post above when i get more time.. HIS DEATH on the cross paid the price for our sins. hisa resurrection Gives us the new life in christ.. there had to be a death a payment of sin .this is all the time i have your getting close to left field

 

[VictoryinJesus]

(...the stumbling block “away from the truth.” John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.)

Agreed here about what Epi said about decreasing: "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21. And dead to the old man...gotta always remember that

Considering the “I must decrease and He increase” and what you shared "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."

Philippians 4:12-13 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. [13] I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
“To be abased”...it is the flesh which is abased...who does the abasing? Surely God in He said He could abased(bring low) pride of the flesh, lust of the eyes...brought low. as John said “I must decrease”

...instructed both

His increase...”to abound.” 2 Corinthians 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

“For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." could also read ...for me, to abound is Christ and to be abased is gain. Both as one decreases the other increases built up in Christ. Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

God trains up His children in the way they should go ....and when mature they will not depart from the way of the Lord.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus answered (him), "You would have no power over me if it had not been given to you from above. For this reason the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin."

This doesn't mean that God has the greater sin...does it? (If one thinks it was God that put Jesus on the cross)

How far above was it?

So then this shows my point. That he who turned over Jesus did so in sin...not by the will of God...although God permitted it because of His divine strategy.

No. I deny that Jesus offered that death to the enemy rather than to the Father.


how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to worship the living God.

Peace be with you!

Everything that Jesus did was in obedience to the Father. Jesus was unblemished in His life. His life was an offering to God...

But it was the devil that put Jesus on the cross. God allowed this as a propitiation to the evil forces that held us captive. In Christ we are set free...BECAUSE there is no more legitimate claim to they who are in Him. The death of Jesus frees up God's entire creation. The death of Jesus was God's "offering" (payment) to the powers that be...not the offering of Jesus. Jesus' offering was to God...His obedience. The strategy was the Father's. God purchased His creation back to Himself through the redeeming blood of Jesus. God did not hold the world captive...the devil did. The world was "kidnapped" so to speak by the devil.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

So who did God purchase His church from? Himself?


Remember how God offered up Job to the devil? God does this to defeat the devil and prove him wrong.

In the end it is always righteousness that triumphs. And that is due to not only the tactical victory of Jesus but also God's strategic plan that no one imagined could happen. If they had known (the evil powers) they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm talking about dealing with entire passages IN THEIR CONTEXT.

That's exactly what I'm doing...placing the meaning of all the verses in the light of the Spirit AND all the other verses in the bible.

So I'm doing double duty here.

But if you mean in the context of what is best for the self-interest of men...I reject that context.

 

[Episkopos]

HIS DEATH on the cross paid the price for our sins.

This is not correct if you mean that He was our personal sacrifice. Jesus took on our sinfulness and evil upon Himself. Jesus suffered and died based on what we consider as peace.

We do things in error. We do things backwardly...self-interestedly.

But the death of Jesus purchased God's creation back to Himself.

I know that people want to see Jesus' death as a pass on sins.

 

[Episkopos]

So then who did Jesus purchase, with His blood, His church from? (and all creation)... from whom are we redeemed from?

A- the ruler of this world?

B- the living God?

 

[Nancy]

So then who did Jesus purchase, with His blood, His church from? (and all creation)... from whom are we redeemed from?

A- the ruler of this world?

B- the living God?

A...?

 

[Episkopos]

I had already pointed out to everyone that episkopos is manufacturing his own theology. So it it best to leave him to his own Gnostic devices.

I know the truth upsets man-made theologies. It seems that very basic truth is so strange sounding to they who have become accustomed to eating at the table of human traditions that good is seen as evil and evil as good. Same as it ever was. The irony is that you don't see what side of history you are on. The word "Pharisee" was NOT an evil moniker in it's day...quite the opposite.

Think "fundamentalist" as today's equivalent.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Why are men's traditions never that of God? This is unsearchable to the human mind.

 

[Episkopos]

A...?

Yes...but many believe that we have been redeemed away from an angry God. That Jesus had to die to buy us away from a hateful God.

Actually an angry god....the god of this world.

God is love.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Astounding, epi. Just astoundingly good! People will pay hundreds of dollars for a ticket to watch an entertainer and listen to him sing, but they esteem the truth as offensive trash...its too strange to comprehend. Oh God help us...

 

[bbyrd009]

You are simply missing the grandiose nature of the plan of God in opting for a religious formula that you think makes sense...because you believe it makes sense. But there is no sense at all to it.

word

oh maybe some sense, i dunno,
the heir is under servants until he inherits, and no better than a slave...

You are making all this up....without any support.

yup
akshelly anti-Scripture

 

[bbyrd009]

It seems a bit silly to me to debate whether or not blood spills out if a human body is jammed with a spear.

literally, i would agree

just that to debate whether there was any blood involved in a whipping and crucifixion seems silly to me...I guess I don't understand why you want proof of a verse that any blood was involved...do you think there was some miraculous thing going on that no matter what they did to Him, no blood came out of his body?

i think we are taught to read a literal history there, and that that will not, ever, make you into a christ sbg. So, if you would scroll back to the first time i posted the vid and reflect on the vv i shot to HiH, and jusy incorporate those vv into your belief system verbally for us, however seems right to you ty. But note you already got no "Witness"

 

[bbyrd009]

Who said I was offended by it

me. too. i guess. Or if you havent been yet, you will be, prolly even should be. Jesus did not die "for" your sins in the manner we propagate, and you are not going to like the conclusions imo, bc after all how long? How long have you been hearing this and not responding, HiH. Does "saved" mean "going up to a place called heaven after i have literally died, to become an immortal for 'eternity'" or no

 

[Nancy]

Yes...but many believe that we have been redeemed away from an angry God. That Jesus had to die to buy us away from a hateful God.

Actually an angry god....the god of this world.

God is love.

For reals bro. Glad I can understand more of your stuff Epi.