Subtleties Of Scripture

[soul man]

I'll point out something small and subtle and most of us have lived our lives by it from the day we were saved.

Jesus said; if you have the faith the size of a grain of mustard seed..you can move a mountain!

Paul said; "I live by the faith OF the Son of God"

Paul did not say he lived by faith in the Son of God. Though I'm sure Paul believed on the Lord Jesus Christ! But in growth and understanding (revelation) he lived by the faith of another! Paul did not live by his own faith. Some modern-day translators would think different and give it their Twist of Paul believing in the Son of God just as they believe in the Son of God a real Twist on scripture to say the least.

Now what is ironic about that is; it contradicts what Jesus said. Jesus said if you had faith you could move mountains by simply talking to it! Think about that..you ever look at your bible like that and see the little subtleties in scripture. I will be the first to say; I do not believe scripture contradicts itself against popular belief by some. When you cannot figure out scripture or understand scripture and have to give some kind of understanding of it like it contradicts itself that is a shallow understanding of what is written.

If you understand the kingdom message and how Jesus brought the kingdom message to Israel he preached the kingdom to Israel, then you will understand what Jesus said. There is no contradiction; it is Jesus speaking to Israel. What Paul does is speak to the church, the born again. Jesus taught spoke and preached under the law and the kingdom of God was at hand. When they came to Jesus to snag him by their questions he simply said what does Moses law say. Jesus was in and under law because law was still in effect because there was no cross and no grace yet. Though he was full of grace and truth..it was not on this earth as a message yet..or the gospel as of yet. That is where the Apostles come in. And Paul the great Apostle to the gentiles. Who was not a disciple as the other eleven, plus one choosen by drawing straws.

 

[Angelina]

You are not one of those anti-Paul believers are you @soul man. We have had a few of them on here in the past.....

 

[MatthewG]

Of or on or in makes no difference to me.

God and Jesus Christ our support. Strength is founded in Christ.

Martin Luther considered the book of James not to be an actual apostle because he never mentioned the life, death, burial of Jesus. Therefore he was not an apostle; Luther also dismissed Jude; also added several different non canonical books to his own Bible that he created. Though he dismissed James he suggested anyone may go read for he has good sayings in him.

 

[soul man]

You are not one of those anti-Paul believers are you @soul man. We have had a few of them on here in the past.....

I have alot of threads you can look at. Pro Paul!

 

[soul man]

Of or on or in makes no difference to me.

God and Jesus Christ our support. Strength is founded in Christ.

Martin Luther considered the book of James not to be an actual apostle because he never mentioned the life, death, burial of Jesus. Therefore he was not an apostle; Luther also dismissed Jude; also added several different non canonical books to his own Bible that he created. Though he dismissed James he suggested anyone may go read for he has good sayings in him.

Luther had a lot of good things to say. Look at the furtherance of knowledge, growth or scripture opening up to the believer. They said what they we're seeing, as well as their opinion on things as James.. Jude.. so on. James does start by saying to 'the twelve tribes.' Paul would never use that language. James says alot of good things but just doesn't give what Paul gave, or even what some of the other Apostles gave!

 

[soul man]

You are not one of those anti-Paul believers are you @soul man. We have had a few of them on here in the past.....

I'm rereading your comment and curious to where you see anti Paul?

 

[farouk]

You are not one of those anti-Paul believers are you @soul man. We have had a few of them on here in the past.....

Hi @Angelina @soul man seems like a great guy! I've not seen any anti-Paul element in his many, thoughtful posts...

 

[marks]

That is where the Apostles come in. And Paul the great Apostle to the gentiles. Who was not a disciple as the other eleven, plus one choosen by drawing straws.

Paul even referred to them as "the 12", so he acknowledged that they were the full group of 12, while he was the apostle to the gentiles.

Good post!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Of or on or in makes no difference to me.

I like to pay attention to these distinctions . . .

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Great points thank you Marks.

 

[farouk]

@MatthewG There's also something in Biblical Greek grammar about 'objective genitive', i.e., 'the faith of Christ' can mean 'faith in Christ'.

 

[marks]

I like to pay attention to these distinctions . . .

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Much love!

I've been co-crucified with Christ, yet I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life I live, I live by the faith of the Son of God.

Not my life, but Jesus' life lived in me. So then not my mind, but the mind of Christ. His words speaking through me, His thoughts in my mind, and His faith in my heart, His life becoming my life, Christ formed in me, the day star rising in my heart.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG There's also something in Biblical Greek grammar about 'objective genitive', i.e., 'the faith of Christ' can mean 'faith in Christ'.

That is right. Pertaining to faith. That is why it doesn’t matter to me when it comes to in or of. Something my teacher has mentioned in one of his teachings and thank you for pointing out again, Farouk.

 

[MatthewG]

Will share a little more of Galatians ;


““You and I are Jews by birth, not ‘sinners’ like the Gentiles. Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law.

And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin?

Absolutely not! Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.

For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me.

So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God.

My old self has been crucified with Christ.

It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless.

For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:15-21‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[soul man]

It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless.

Paul is giving a furtherance of his understanding (the revelation of Jesus Christ) of what 'his gospel' is.' In and of are two different things in this verse. It is the same as when scripture goes into 'the before gospel' and 'the after gospel.' we have written 'a gospel' before creation. And we have 'a gospel' written after creation. Big difference! So to say in and of doesn't matter is a big understatement. It is a translators error and we take it in stride.. like it means nothing. It means exactly what Jesus told John in exile.. the end of the book of revelations says do not mess with what is written. Don't come up with your better ideas.

 

[MatthewG]

Trust and have faith in Christ Jesus. Not man.

 

[MatthewG]

For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world— our faith <

“And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.


And Jesus Christ was revealed as God’s Son by his baptism in water and by shedding his blood on the cross—not by water only, but by water and blood.

And the Spirit, who is truth, confirms it with his testimony.

So we have these three witnesses— the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree. Since we believe human testimony, surely we can believe the greater testimony that comes from God.

And God has testified about his Son. All who believe in the Son of God know in their hearts that this testimony is true.

Those who don’t believe this are actually calling God a liar because they don’t believe what God has testified about his Son.

And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have God’s Son does not have life.

I have written this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life. And we are confident that he hears us whenever we ask for anything that pleases him.

And since we know he hears us when we make our requests, we also know that he will give us what we ask for.

If you see a fellow believer sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life.

But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it.

All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death. We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.

We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.

And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God.

And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ.

He is the only true God, and he is eternal life. Dear children, keep away from anything that might take God’s place in your hearts.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:5-21‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[soul man]

For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world— our faith <

“And who can win this battle against the world? Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God.


And Jesus Christ was revealed as God’s Son by his baptism in water and by shedding his blood on the cross—not by water only, but by water and blood.

And the Spirit, who is truth, confirms it with his testimony.

So we have these three witnesses— the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree. Since we believe human testimony, surely we can believe the greater testimony that comes from God.

And God has testified about his Son. All who believe in the Son of God know in their hearts that this testimony is true.

Those who don’t believe this are actually calling God a liar because they don’t believe what God has testified about his Son.

And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have God’s Son does not have life.

I have written this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life. And we are confident that he hears us whenever we ask for anything that pleases him.

And since we know he hears us when we make our requests, we also know that he will give us what we ask for.

If you see a fellow believer sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life.

But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it.

All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death. We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.

We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one.

And we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us understanding so that we can know the true God.

And now we live in fellowship with the true God because we live in fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ.

He is the only true God, and he is eternal life. Dear children, keep away from anything that might take God’s place in your hearts.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:5-21‬ ‭NLT‬‬

Most powerful scriptures!

 

[farouk]

Most powerful scriptures!

@soul man Also, where the Lord Jesus speaks in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 He seems to be speaking about a time on earth - tribulation saints - after the church has gone...

 

[post]

I'll point out something small and subtle and most of us have lived our lives by it from the day we were saved.

Jesus said; if you have the faith the size of a grain of mustard seed..you can move a mountain!

Paul said; "I live by the faith OF the Son of God"

Paul did not say he lived by faith in the Son of God. Though I'm sure Paul believed on the Lord Jesus Christ! But in growth and understanding (revelation) he lived by the faith of another! Paul did not live by his own faith. Some modern-day translators would think different and give it their Twist of Paul believing in the Son of God just as they believe in the Son of God a real Twist on scripture to say the least.

Now what is ironic about that is; it contradicts what Jesus said. Jesus said if you had faith you could move mountains by simply talking to it! Think about that..you ever look at your bible like that and see the little subtleties in scripture. I will be the first to say; I do not believe scripture contradicts itself against popular belief by some. When you cannot figure out scripture or understand scripture and have to give some kind of understanding of it like it contradicts itself that is a shallow understanding of what is written.

If you understand the kingdom message and how Jesus brought the kingdom message to Israel he preached the kingdom to Israel, then you will understand what Jesus said. There is no contradiction; it is Jesus speaking to Israel. What Paul does is speak to the church, the born again. Jesus taught spoke and preached under the law and the kingdom of God was at hand. When they came to Jesus to snag him by their questions he simply said what does Moses law say. Jesus was in and under law because law was still in effect because there was no cross and no grace yet. Though he was full of grace and truth..it was not on this earth as a message yet..or the gospel as of yet. That is where the Apostles come in. And Paul the great Apostle to the gentiles. Who was not a disciple as the other eleven, plus one choosen by drawing straws.

No, Paul said:
ἐν πίστει ζῶ τῇ τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ

Of faith I live, that the Son of the God

There is no 'in' and no 'of' in this part of Galatians 2:20, at all. It's Greek, not English.
You're eisegeting.