Talking in Tongues:

[JesusIsFaithful]

JIF, let me provide a very brief response.

First, I don't think the context of 1 John as it relates to false teaching antichrists has anything to do with charismatics and their (in my view, errant) understanding of the gift of tongues. Equating a errant view on a spiritual gift with a false teaching antichrist that leads people away from God is hermeneutically irresponsible, imo.

This was prophesied that it will happen to believers.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

From which is why 1 John 4:1-7 is calling believers not to believe every spirit, but test them, and verses 5 & 6 testify of testing the tongues as well for those in error will speak as the world speak thus having the spirit of error of which I apply as towards supernatural tongues that comes without interpretation because it is just babbling nonsense as found in the supernatural tongue as used in the world before Pentecost had come.

Second, to compare charismatics with pagan religions because a practice looks or sounds similar is simply ridiculous. Its like saying that churches shouldn't use drums because they are used in pagan worship practices or that Christians who put up a Christmas tree are evil because pagans originated the practice. God looks at the heart and we should not be so quick to judge others when their desire is to worship Jesus Christ.

I see Paul giving the bottomline on what God's actual gift of tongues are for; to speak unto the people in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 in case people misunderstood what he was talking about in regards to God's gift of tongues for what it was used for.. Isaiah 8:19 testify of the supernatural tongue before Pentecost had come which is babbling nonsense.

God does look on the heart and Jesus told us in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit does not have His own words to speak; He can only speak what He hears; thus while Jesus was on earth, He performed as the Spirit of the Father; and since Jesus's ascension when all power had been given unto Him, the Holy Spirit serves now as the Spirit of Christ. At no time can the Holy Spirit take time out and use God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people to tur it around to speak His intercessions directly back to God. This is why in Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV only, His intercessions are unspeakable as He cannot utter them nor give them to God the Father which is why Another is needed as testified in verse 27 by knowing the mind of the Spirit as this is the same Person that searches our hearts Whom is the Word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ as He is the only One at that throne of grace to give intercessions for us and the Spirit's so that when the Father says "Yes" to any of them, The Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Indeed, the Holy Spirit plays a part in answering those prayers BUT the Holy Spirit gives that glory to the Son in John 16:14-15 so that the Father may be glorified IN THE SON as John 14:13-14 confirms. That is the "mechanics" in how prayer works as Jesus said in John 14:6 that He is the only way to come to God the Father by .. and not just for salvation either, but how to live that reconciled relationship with God thru the Son.

So our relationship is not us thru the Spirit, but us thru the Son as in we are the bride to the Bridegroom. The focus that the world has in the supernatural is through spirits, and the Father would call them out from those spirits to a personal relationship with Him thru the Son in seeking His face in worship, fellowship, and prayer as the Holy Spirit Whom is God, is leading believers as the bride to do... to keep coming to the Son. Jesus has given a lot of warnings and emphasis for believers to keep coming to the Son as the Law of God is John 14:6 with judgment hanging on John 5:22-23 for us to honor the Son if we seek to honor the Father and when we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.

Finally, charismatics have a wide range of views as it relates to the role of the Holy Spirit as it relates to the gift of tongues. Trying to paint them all with one brush is a mistake on your part.

Here is the truth; God's gift of tongues are for speaking unto the people. The Holy Spirit has intercessions for us but He cannot utter them as they are unspeakable for which Another is needed to give His intercessions to the Father. No "believer" is saved unless they have received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ at their salvation. Any deviation from those three truths and no one can test the spirits nor the tongues they bring.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his..........15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

So when they tell you that there is a baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues which never comes with interpretation that is separate from salvation, that is not the truth. That supernatural phenomenon is not of the truth; not of Him.. hence neither is that tongue, which is why God's gift of tongues will always be for speaking unto the people and not some secret prayer language so that the devil does not know about it ( which is silly since he cannot defer nor stop God's will when He answers prayers. )

Again, I disagree with charismatics views on tongues. However, I don't think they are pagan, demonic or evil as a result. I simply think they are mistaken but are genuinely desiring to please and draw near to the Lord. I want to show them the same grace that I want the Lord to show me when he reveals my misunderstandings when I stand before him one day. I urge you to do the same.

Paul testified that this iniquity was already at work in his day in regards to the falling away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter, and to reprove that iniquity, he reminded believers of this truth and the traditions taught regarding when a believer receives the promise of the Holy Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit IS NOT separate from salvation. Having the Holy Spirit in us is Him witnessing of us that we are the children of God and thus saved by faith in Jesus Christ. This is the faith we are to defend, but tongue speakers would have us follow them down the rabbit hole when they interject their kind of tongues into scripture, ignoring the apostasy by which they have gained this supernatural tongue to excuse it why it is not coming with interpretation since how they got it is not of Him. So it is by His words, and by His help, I can broad stroke tongues that comes with no interpretation because it comes from apostasy.

And the irony of this seeking this phenomenon to get this tongue, it does not stop there as there are other events whereby they fall down and confusion ensues in these movements of the "Spirit" with signs and lying wonders as they seek to receive the "Spirit" again and again and again.

The line of discernment begins and ends by defending the faith in Jesus Christ. There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit separate from salvation. Many sleeping believers need to wake up to that faith in Jesus Christ to discern this as apostasy and shun vain & profane babblings to pray normally as Christ taught for us to pray.

 

[Sword]

I was asking clarifying questions to understand Oz's view. It doesn't seem Oz was confused by my post.

I have seen your typical type of reply since the past four years. I tell people we can all lay hands on the sick and see them healed. Very often they through in well have you raised the dead. So funny they ask if you raised the dead and they never layed hands on anyone. They cant believe for healing but hold you to the highest account. So by the same measure will be your own judgement.
See how you also try and seperate me from him by highlighting he gets it but I have a lack. Thats pretty shallow. I am not confused with your reply I see right through it. Its very clear where you stand on healing and all the gifts. So there is no confusion. So to me it reads as I have seen as I said.
I seen people healed about 60 in the last for years. I used to believe as the majority in here believe. I never saw one person heald between me and the whole church. 120 Christians. We never saw one healed in 21 years. Now I hear a giuy say we can lay hands and they will recover. Sounds like the bible. So I see them healed I tell my wife and kids. No gift no asking just doing bible as we should do. And they all see people healed. Wow wonder why that is. whats the chances we all just so happened to get the gift. Bookies will give you big odds on that if they listen to you.
So then we share the gospel?goodnews with other people and boom now the see people healed. The Holy Ghost does indeed give to whom He decides to. But I know for a fact most Christians need declutterd of all the lies they have been told in church. Now the people telling these lies where also lied to. We aint blaming anyone but satan who came to stael kill and destroy. and we can see that clearly in here even.
I am not the one who is confused. But many in here are and are to full of self to even think about it or go to God and Chase after God in the secret place.

So recap never saw one healed in 21 years doing what most in here do. saying its not for today its only for some. Garbage.
No one will ever tell me what they know nothing about. I seen it dont it seen people I told they can do it do it.
A man with and ex[eriance is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.

I see all the stupid arguments and total contradicting scriptiure arguments sine four years. There is nothing new in here. and the church is willfully ignorant.

This may look like I am angry as I said I seen it all before. I am really happy and in the best place I was ever in .

 

[Sword]

I think that when it comes to the Gifts of the Godhead, the gift of Speaking in Tongues or many of the other gifts that are available to us, we often have a tendency to interpret these passages without properly researching the subject and verses involved. It is obvious that the author of this thread has preconceived ideas on the subject (opinions) and a somewhat puerile logic that would hamper solid interpretation. (Because a passage does not mention "tongues of angels" then it must mean tongues of men or foreign language.) Many passages of scripture are silent on all kinds of thing and yet one should establish doctrine because of this silence alone.



In this reply I would like to possibly bring clarity on this issue of Gifts.

First of all the Gifts that are mentioned in scripture are given to us by not only the Spirit but also by the two remaining persons of the Godhead, the Father and the Son. This is clearly seen in the 3 verses of (1 Corinthians 12:4, 5, 6).

4 “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
The 9 gifts listed are found sandwiched between verses 7 and 11 which state that they are worked and given by the Spirit alone and divided by His will to all men to profit withal. These 9 gifts are for ministry and for the profit of the assembly, hence the reason why Paul gave many instructions about these gifts in Chap. 14. Let us remember that these gifts are “Manifestations” (Vv. 7) and one of them is Speaking in diverse Tongues. This manifestation is not the same one that we see displayed throughout the book of Acts. (ex. Acts 10, Story of Cornelius) The tongues experiences in Acts are actually the evidence displayed when one is baptized with Holy Ghost and Fire as stated by John the Baptist. I will come back to this later to clarify.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
Found in (Ephesians 4:4-13), we read that Jesus gave to the church gifts for men. They are of an administrative type meant for 7 reasons for the Church.

1) For the perfecting of the saints,
2) for the work of the ministry,
3) for the edifying of the body of Christ:
4) Till we all come in the unity of the faith,
5) and of the knowledge of the Son of God,
6) unto a perfect man,
7)unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which works all in all.

The next series of gifts are given by the Father to every individual who as walked the planet, for God is not a respecter of persons. These gifts are operational, in other words they operate in our daily lives whether we recognize them or not. Turn to Romans 12 and notice the preamble vv. 1-5 which clearly identifies God, not Jesus, not the Spirit as the one in charge of these gifts.

According to the verse 6 above, it does say that God works them ALL in ALL. You will also notice that as you analyze these 7 gifts that very can “operate” in them but that there may be some discomfort it performing one gift over another. Also you will find that 1 of the 7 gifts in you is more dominant than the others. Each individual has one gift more dominant than the other 6. In the world today people notice this dominant gift in others and have coined idioms to compliment them. Matter of fact our dominant gift has probably made many decision for us in our life. If your dominant gift serving, would you volunteer to lead the choir. And trust me, if you’re a server, you know what I mean. I know for myself I have much work to do in showing mercy, I hate hospitals and funeral parlours. But give me some chalk and a blackboard and I’ll teach a crowd of a thousand. The idea is that God gave us all 7 and He wants us to hone them all perfectly because there will be times that they don’t need a teacher at the moment but maybe the church needs an exhorter. We are to become like Christ who was the perfect embodiment of all 7 gifts.

1) Prophecy (to proclaim) “He/She has the gift of gab”
2) Serving “There is nothing he/she wouldn’t do”
3) Teaching “He/she is always in the books”, “Head in the cloud”, “He/she is very opinionated”
4) Exhorting “There’s not a negative bone in his/her body”
5) Giving “He would give you the shirt of his back.”
6) Ruling “He/she is a born leader.”
7) Showing Mercy “She wears her heart on her sleeve.”

So when trying to interpret a particular verse on the subject of Gifts, you want to be aware of the division of these, their function and the giver.

PART 1

Ciao! 4 now

You really should reveal the soarse. You would like to bring some clarity? Dont you mean bible hub would like to bring some clarity?
1 Corinthians 12:4 KJV: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

 

[perrero]

Gifts of the Godhead (PART 2)

Let us begin with 2 verses.

1) (Matthew 3:11) “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire” For those of us who think that this is unimportant, the Holy Spirit chose to put this tidbit of info in all for gospel. Indeed it is found in Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33

Here we see that there is such a thing as a baptism that is performed by Jesus and that the medium of this baptism is, not water like John was using, but the Holy Spirit Himself. Imagine John, or your pastor or yourself taking an individual and dunking them into water. Now imagine, instead of John, Jesus baptizing you into the presence, power and fire of the Holy Ghost. When we seek out this baptism in the Holy Spirit, Jesus says; “Don’t worry, you who are good fathers know not to give a serpent or a scorpion when your children ask for a fish and an egg. Your Father in heaven also knows not to give you a serpent (devil) or a scorpion (demon) when asking for the Holy Spirit.” (Luke 11:13) If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

There are so many people who are afraid of catching a demon when ask God for the Holy Spirit that they have shied totally away from this blessing and have gone so far as to invent a Cessationist Theology to affirm there fears. Jesus therefore puts this fear to bed by saying: “Seriously? You’re going to ask my GOOD father in heaven for the Holy Spirit and he’ll respond by injecting you with a demon?” That says allot. Let’s not forget this verse. (Acts 2:39) “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”


2) (1 John 5:7-8)” For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Now let’s see if we can find these 3 witnesses, blood, water, spirit, in the book of Acts which is a major point of reference when discussing Salvation, and different baptism. The 3 baptisms involved here are: A) the baptism of the believer (believes in the blood sacrifice of the cross) where he Holy Spirit baptizes the new believer into the Body of Christ, thus becoming one of its members.
B) the baptism of repentance performed by another believer into a medium of water (Rom. 10:10) “For with the heart man believeth (the blood) unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession( water) is made unto salvation.”
C) the baptism of the Spirit performed by Christ into the Spirit resulting in power and fire and the evidence of Speaking in other tongues, gift that is not part of the 3 sets of gifts we’ve already seen (1COR. 12, EPH.4, ROM. 12)

Looking at Peter’s first evangelistic message we witness the conviction on the crowd and there response. (Acts 2:37) “What shall we do Brethren?” Peter replies; “Repent (Blood), and be baptized (Water) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Spirit)

These 3 witnesses are found all over the book of Acts and in the OT, some stories more obvious than others. For instance, Acts 8, the believers of Samaria (blood) were baptized (water) (Do you think at this point that the Holy Spirit had taken up residence in their souls at this point?) yet when the Apostles saw that “16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)(water)” “17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost” . The evidence of Tongues is not mentioned but could be surmised by the reaction of Simon the Sorcerer.

Acts 9, we witness Saul’s conversion (blood), we see Simon coming to pray for the baptism of the Holy Spirit, (Paul confesses that he speaks in tongues more than anyone) (Spirit), the 3 days of blindness point toward the 3 days from death to resurrection. (blood)When the scales fell of his eyes, he was baptized. (water)

Acts 10, Cornelius’s household believed (blood) as the gospel was preached to them; they were baptized in the Spirit without the help of anybody and evidenced with Tongues.(spirit) Subsequently , they were baptized in water (water). Their conversion is seen in that they Heard the Word, faith comes by hearing… It is also seen in that this story began at the 6th hour (Peter’ vision) and extended to the 9th hour (Cornelius’ vision) which is also the period of time Christ hung on the Cross for us. (blood)

Acts 19, we see believers (blood) who had not received either baptism in water or in the Spirit and because of this Paul takes action baptizing in water (water) and the Spirit (spirit) with evidence of Tongues.

Ex. 12, we see the 3 witnesses in the deliverance of Israel by the blood of the lamb (blood), the passing through the Red Sea (water), and the cloud by day and fire by night symbolizing the (spirit). (1Cor. 10:2)

I think that’s enough examples, although there are others.

And so it is easy to confuse the Gift of Tongues because on the one hand we have Tongues that are the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit by Jesus for an individual and his walk with God and on the other hand we have the Holy Spirit who manifests the Gift of Tongues through an individual for the benefit of a congregation. If spoken out loud in an assembly, Paul iterates that it must be translated so that all may benefit. If not translated, then either that person was out of order and should have kept quiet or the person who the Spirit chose to interpret was too fearful and did not follow through. I can sympathize with someone who walks into a church and hears a pack of individuals sounding of in Tongues and because of the unintelligible cacophony they would brand them as crazy or worse.

In order to avoid these misguided utterances is to teach the people about it. Many Pastors fear this teaching because they are either guilty themselves or they do not want to offend their congregants who might leave because of it.

Paul suggest that we aspire the seek the Gift of Prophecy, avoiding the Tongue/Interpretation problem, and simply speaks out the message of the Spirit in the language of the people.

The Tongue given at the Baptism of the Spirit is a private Tongue for private times with God. When in our closet of prayer we sometimes do not know what to say or we simply run out of words. We can allow the Spirit to take over and pray for us for He certainly knows what it’s all about. Why do we do that? First because we are stuck for words or we pray blindly because we don’t know enough and finally because there is “Death and Life” in the tongue. When we allow the Spirit to take over, He knows the exact words of life to raise the dead, heal the sick and quell the storm.

HOPE this helps.

From the teachers desk.

Cheers

 

[perrero]

You really should reveal the soarse. You would like to bring some clarity? Dont you mean bible hub would like to bring some clarity?
1 Corinthians 12:4 KJV: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

I have no clue what you are talking about.
What is this bible hub?
This thread, i gather, is about Tongues in specific and Gifts in general. If my post can clarify in these areas then it served its purpose.

 

[Wormwood]

I have seen your typical type of reply since the past four years. I tell people we can all lay hands on the sick and see them healed. Very often they through in well have you raised the dead. So funny they ask if you raised the dead and they never layed hands on anyone. They cant believe for healing but hold you to the highest account. So by the same measure will be your own judgement.
See how you also try and seperate me from him by highlighting he gets it but I have a lack. Thats pretty shallow. I am not confused with your reply I see right through it. Its very clear where you stand on healing and all the gifts. So there is no confusion. So to me it reads as I have seen as I said.
I seen people healed about 60 in the last for years. I used to believe as the majority in here believe. I never saw one person heald between me and the whole church. 120 Christians. We never saw one healed in 21 years. Now I hear a giuy say we can lay hands and they will recover. Sounds like the bible. So I see them healed I tell my wife and kids. No gift no asking just doing bible as we should do. And they all see people healed. Wow wonder why that is. whats the chances we all just so happened to get the gift. Bookies will give you big odds on that if they listen to you.
So then we share the gospel?goodnews with other people and boom now the see people healed. The Holy Ghost does indeed give to whom He decides to. But I know for a fact most Christians need declutterd of all the lies they have been told in church. Now the people telling these lies where also lied to. We aint blaming anyone but satan who came to stael kill and destroy. and we can see that clearly in here even.
I am not the one who is confused. But many in here are and are to full of self to even think about it or go to God and Chase after God in the secret place.

So recap never saw one healed in 21 years doing what most in here do. saying its not for today its only for some. Garbage.
No one will ever tell me what they know nothing about. I seen it dont it seen people I told they can do it do it.
A man with and ex[eriance is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.

I see all the stupid arguments and total contradicting scriptiure arguments sine four years. There is nothing new in here. and the church is willfully ignorant.

This may look like I am angry as I said I seen it all before. I am really happy and in the best place I was ever in .

Well, I am happy for you. However, that is not my experience nor is it what I see the Bible teach.

 

[Sword]

Well, I am happy for you. However, that is not my experience nor is it what I see the Bible teach.

So what I see totally contradicts what you are seeing. and I saw what you see for 21 years. So is it possible that you are not seeing it correctly. Is it possible the people who taught you might have it wrong. as I said 40, 50.000 denominations cant all be correct?
But you are going to dismiss what I have said without concedering God in this situation.
You quick to jump on the band wagon and condem anyone involved in porn. Dont you know the deal with those who are misteaching? I would rather be involved in porn than be involved in misteaching. As I said this is typically the responce I have seen in the last four years. I an kinda struggling to work out why some hear it love it and run with it. and some flat out refuse to conciderit or even ask God if its true. That will be reveled in time.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
People with the actual gift of tongues have the option to pray and sing with
it or not to.

● 1Cor 14:13-16 . . Anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may
interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my
mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will
also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my
mind.

In other words: there are charismatics out and about blabbering
incoherently because they choose to, rather than because they have to.

Now why on earth would a grown-up prefer incoherent blabbering? Isn't that
the way small children communicate? Well, small children I can excuse
because they're uneducated. But shouldn't supposed educated adults be just
a bit more mature with their language and grammar than small children?

● 1Cor 14:20 . . Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be
infants, but in your thinking be adults.

Well; Paul was too kind. Were it left up to me I'd describe willful tonguers as
spiritually retarded.

/

 

[Sword]

spiritually retarded.

Retarded is a very vile word. And I see you clearly are running away from the question I put to you.
Are YOU allowed to call a ANY MAN a fool?
I asked you to reply 4-5 times now. Wonder why you cant answer it. I see no point reading anything you say. If your going to choose to ignore a simple question on an action you took. You are wrong even if your going to avoid answering me. I wont bother you again. You want to preach here. and dont like being called out when wrong. So continue making it up as it suits you if you like.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

Retarded is a very vile word.

Webster's defines retarded as slow or limited in intellectual or emotional
development.

Spiritual retardation is not all that uncommon, for example:

● Heb 5:11-13 . .We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain
because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be
teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God'
word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

/

 

[Sword]

C

Webster's defines retarded as slow or limited in intellectual or emotional
development.

So that would me you? You called men fools. And Jesus clearly tells you not to do that. So your retarded? Is that the kinda thing you mean and webster?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Colossians 4:4 That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak. 5 Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. 6 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

So the little ones or the leasts are our brethren in Christ that have gone astray or have made a trespass. May the Lord remind you of this truth below.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

It may be that one should withdraw from the brethren to admonish them when they are unrepentant, but they are still His as He will find His lost sheep, even the ones that gets left behind at the pre trib rapture event for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:39-40 )

 

[Sword]

It may be that one should withdraw from the brethren to admonish them when they are unrepentant, but they are still His as He will find His lost sheep, even the ones that gets left behind at the pre trib rapture event for He shall lose none of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:39-40 )

Yes and we also need to do the same with our children. Which for some people this is a little harder to grasp. If they need jail time let them go. stop bailing them out

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Yes and we also need to do the same with our children. Which for some people this is a little harder to grasp. If they need jail time let them go. stop bailing them out

Even Jesus has to help every one to do that, including me in regards to not arguing with any brethren that refuse to hear correction, to let them go.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
Here's an example of a sensible, practical use of tongues.

● Rev 14:6-7 . . I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the
everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to
Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who
made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!

The everlasting gospel is very elementary. Pretty much all it says to
everyone who hears it is:

1• There's a supreme being.

2• He deserves respect.

3• There's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and

4• The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product
of intelligent design.

Giving "glory" to God simply indicates giving someone credit where credit is
due; and "worship" basically just simply means admiration.

It's quite natural to admire celebrities, pro athletes, and super achievers-- to
give them credit where credit is due --but not quite so natural to do the
same for their creator.

Anyway, point being: the angel's message will be intelligible to everyone
who hears him no matter what language they speak and/or understand.
Modern tonguers would do well to use their gift in like manner instead of
only blowing bubbles all the time.

/

 

[Sword]

-
Here's an example of a sensible, practical use of tongues.

● Rev 14:6-7 . . I saw another angel flying through the sky, carrying the
everlasting gospel to preach to the people who dwell on the earth-- to every
nation, tribe, language, and people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to
Him! For the time has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who
made heaven and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!

The everlasting gospel is very elementary. Pretty much all it says to
everyone who hears it is:

1• There's a supreme being.

2• He deserves respect.

3• There's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and

4• The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the product
of intelligent design.

Giving "glory" to God simply indicates giving someone credit where credit is
due; and "worship" basically just simply means admiration.

It's quite natural to admire celebrities, pro athletes, and super achievers-- to
give them credit where credit is due --but not quite so natural to do the
same for their creator.

Anyway, point being: the angel's message will be intelligible to everyone
who hears him no matter what language they speak and/or understand.
Modern tonguers would do well to use their gift in like manner instead of
only blowing bubbles all the time.

/

Worship means to bow down prostate before and at the feet of.
Strong's Greek: 4352. προσκυνέω (proskuneó) -- to do reverence to

 

[Webers_Home]

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● 1Cor 14:1 . .Eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.

The koiné Greek word for "prophecy" is propheteuo (prof-ate-yoo'-o) which
primarily means to foretell events, but it also means to speak under
inspiration; for example: Old Testament's prophets spoke under inspiration
about Christ. (1Pet 1:10-11)

Abel was a prophet (Luke 11:50-51) and so was Abraham (Gen 20:7). I
think it's fairly safe to assume that both of those men, at some time in their
lives, spoke under inspiration about Christ.

Modern prophets speak under inspiration about Christ. (Rev 19:10)

Speaking under inspiration about Christ is far and away more valuable than
the gift of tongues, for example:

● 1Cor 14:22-25 . . If the whole church comes together and everyone
speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers
come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever
or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is
prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be
judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall
down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

In other words: tonguers can actually drive people away from Christ.

● John 6:44 . . No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
him

The Father's primary tool of choice for drawing people to Christ isn't
tongues, no, it's prophecy;

● 1Cor 1:21 . . It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them
that believe.

Noah was a preacher (2Pet 2:5). Had enough of the antediluvians listened to
him, they might have averted the Flood. (In Noah's day the gift of tongues
wasn't necessary because the whole earth spoke the same language.)

In the very early days of Jesus' church, tonguers were useful to Christ for
propagating his message because people heard the tonguers speaking
honest to gosh, real-life languages that audiences understood. But in our
day and age, tonguers typically don't speak honest to gosh real-life
languages but instead blather. As a result, tonguers are looked upon with
the same disdain as those that hurl themselves in the aisle, faint, scream,
shout, and/or dance with rattlesnakes.

In other words: tonguers are usually dismissed as kooks. Well; not too many
sensible people care to accommodate kooks so I highly recommend speaking
about Christ with an intelligible language. Here in my country, English is a
good choice because most people can understand it without requiring the
services of a translator.

/

 

[Sword]

But in our
day and age, tonguers typically don't speak honest to gosh real-life

Yes because people like you teach agaiosnt it. But th facts are it still works today in an honset to gosh way. Even though you dont except it. We know it for a fact. and you think your right. Nothing you can print will change me experiances. A man with an experiance is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.
heres one example. Friend of mine is in Romania and because of the translator hassel. My friend decides to pray in tounges to save the translator translating all he said in the prayer. So he spoke in tounges One woman starts crying uncontrolably. She heard all about her son. No one else heard anything but tounges. My friend is wondering what s up with her. he had no gift He just does what the rest of us are told to do. It just works.

 

[Webers_Home]

-
● 1Cor 12:27-31 . . Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a
part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second
prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of
healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and
those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Q: Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?

A: No, No, No, No, No, No, and No!

● Rom 12:3-6 . . Just as each of us has one body with many members, and
these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are
many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have
different gifts, according to the grace given us.

Q: Well; if 1Cor 12:27-31 and Rom 12:3-6 are hard and fast rules; then why
do so many tonguers insist that every true Christian is supposed to have the
gift of tongues?

A: Because to their way of thinking; tongues are the proof that they have
been baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ as per 1Cor 12:13; and
thus sealed for the day of redemption as per Eph 1:13 and Eph 4:30. Ergo:
invalidate their tongues, and you can just imagine how frightened and
insecure that tonguers would suddenly become due to uncertainty whether
they might actually be on a road to hell.

/

 

[Sword]

A: No, No, No, No, No, No, and No!

Are all saved no no no no no.
But they can be. He is telling a fact of life. He is not saling what you want it to say. You are making it say what you want. If that was read in a court of law you would be laughed out of the court. Hes steing the obvious. He said I want you all to talk in tounges. No way round that.