Do you recognize a difference between the event of Salvation and the conduct of Discipleship?
Tares Reveal Themselves by what they DON’T Say...And They Are With us Here .How to Identify Them...
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
"...the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had..." Romans 4:12
Faith leaves footsteps. If yours doesn't then you ain't got faith.
No Scripture speaks of anyone after Abraham leaving spiritual footsteps, certainly not modern millennials. Merely quoting some phrase from Scripture does not mean it has anything to do with you.
Do you understand what I just said?
We have all of Scripture which says no person can be sinless until he is glorified. Paul calls it the Old Man.
Learn to read. Change your thinking.
Where do we draw the line in regard to the run-of-the-mill Believer that “ Stumbles” or gets “ caught up in some sin” or gives in to the Sins “ that so EASILY beset us” and the Guy That “ thinks” he is a Believer but can’t be because he is “ living in sin” ?
Can a person lie or have an impure thought once a week and make the grade ? Does he become a person “ living in sin” if he advances to Ten Lies and Ten impure thoughts a week? .....We ALL “ kinda” Live in Sin to one degree or the other......
A Perfect man does not have to worry about any of this....But if you are like me and can’t be Perfect , how perfect do you have to be to qualify as a man who sins but does not “ LIVE” in Sin.....Will 90% Perfect get the job done? How about 75% Perfect......51% sounds like a good place to be—- over half!
Personally, I think that a person who lives in sin might quickly or slowly , in the process of God Transforming a man into the Image Of His Son ( as promised) might just eventually get to the point that he will feel “ ill at ease” trying to live a lifestyle of Sin.....it will no longer “ jibe” with his New Heart ......He might just abandon it when he sees that God has something better......A combination of Loving Chastisement and Spiritual Transformation might be the way in which God rescues a man from a lifestyle of sin .....
Sins committed while the man is in the process of being Transformed are covered by Grace as far as his Salvation is concerned —— they are Under the Blood.Relax at this point, Legalists—— you will be happy to know that the man will be taken to God's “ Woodshed” for disciplining , but his Salvation will still be intact—— THAT was a GIFT—— Remember? It was NOT a “ trade” as in “you conquer your sinful lifestyle and then and Only then, I will give you My Salvation”
If the man were to die before this process of being changed by God was completed —- incomplete before he made it across “ The Line” —- Grace has got THAT situation covered also. He will be saved—- Saved like a man barely escaping a house fire ......If he was a Believer in the Gospel ,God “ Remembers his sins no more.”
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Believers struggle with sin in their righteous lives. Unbelievers willingly live in sin as a way of life. That's how you can tell the saved from the unsaved. John says to not be deceived about this. The man who lives in sin and does live righteously is not born again. That does not mean sinless perfection. That means the changed life of a born again person growing up into Christ.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Here, read this. It's addressed to you and everybody else that thinks faith doesn't have to produce actions......
O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone. James 2:20-24
Faith does something. If it doesn't, then it isn't faith. The born again person is justified by faith apart from works; AND justified by works. That doesn't mean works make you righteous (faith does that all by itself). It means works show you to be righteous. If a person can't back their claim up of having faith with the works that faith produces, then they don't have faith. They just think they do. The truly born again person is justified by both faith AND works. If you get to the judgment with faith 'alone' you will go to the left and into the lake of fire. Because, ultimately, faith that is 'alone' is no faith at all.
For land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is tended receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned." Hebrews 6:7-8
So, go on thinking your faith that is alone is saving faith if you want. God told us straight up in the Bible that faith that is alone is not saving faith. It's your choice what you're going to do with that from here. Are you going to continue to insist that dead faith is saving faith, or are you going to bend to the Word of God and acknowledge that true faith that saves leaves footsteps, like Abraham's faith did?
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Progression. It's all about progression.
"For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 1:8
Ultimately, if you aren't changing and growing up into the image of Christ, you aren't born again. You're not a new creation in Christ. Every person has to examine themselves to see if they are in the faith or not.
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Can’t you see for yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you—unless you actually fail the test? 2 Corinthians 13:5
As I have said before , a man who has the Holy Spirit within him ( and without that he is Unsaved) can no more “ not” be changed than a man who walks around with a radioactive rock in his pocket....Seen or Unseen , a change WILL happen...
A Saved man SHOULD change..... I believe a Saved man WILL change.....He HAS to.....He is a NEW CREATION ....He possess a NEW HEART....
Having said those things, I just think that sometimes any visible changes in outward behavior to satisfy “ Fruit Inspectors” may not manifest themselves for awhile.....Given time, a Born-Again man will change....Most of the changes,these Fruits Of The Spirit ( Joy , Peace, Long- Suffering, self- control, etc) are not capable of being seen......
Yes, I believe the Regenerated man will have change in his life....all I say is that even though it WILL happen, it does not HAVE to happen.....it is the “possession” of the Holy Spirit that “spurs” these changes that is the determining factor of Salvation.....NOT the Changes in and of themselves.....The INSTANT that a man Believes the Gospel He is Saved.....if he gets hit by lightning one second after he Believes, he goes to Heaven.Without any evidence of “change” or “ growing”
Nobody has to change.....let the Holy Spirit “hang around” long enough and you will * BE* changed.....If you have the Holy Spirit in you, you got it because of your Faith ....You want that Spirit to “ hang around?” ..... do what Paul said.....you finish the Christian Life the same way you started it——- FAITH!...... “ From Faith to Faith”, was the way that Paul put it....We practice the Faith and God provides the Change.....” The Righteous shall LIVE by Faith......
Paul asked his listeners if they got the Holy Spirit by “ being good” or by “ changing” .....the answer was “ No”..... they got the Holy Spirit by Faith.....Faith is Acting on a Promise Of God ....The Promise is Believe that Jesus died for you Sins and rose from the grave and you will be Saved....Believe that Promise.....that will get you the Holy Spirit....That Spirit will change you just As certainly as carrying around that radioactive rock will.....it may take a while to see it......and if you Never see it—it’s the Spirit that prompts the change that saves—- not the change in and of itself....
Anybody that can say “ Jesus is Lord” whereas before he could NOT say that with belief and sincerity has exhibited enough “ change “ to show that he has the Holy Spirit in Him and he is a man that is Saved.....” No man can say “ Jesus is Lord” without having the Holy Spirit in him” , according to Paul.....if you have that Spirit —- you are Saved....and Sealed .....Secure forever.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Paul disagrees with you. The sinning man at Corinth had to repent in order to be saved at Christ's return. The Hypergrace Progressive church says that is not true. They say Paul got that one wrong.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
In the mean time Paul says to turn that man over to satan so that he might be saved when Jesus comes back. Contrary to what you say, there's no guarantee that the person still living in his sin will repent after being turned over to satan. Paul said, "so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord." 1 Corinthians 5:5. Since you claim to be college educated you should know that the use of the subjunctive verb indicates that he may or may not be saved by being turned over to satan.
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Instant
Active Member
Here we go again with your spin. A person who simply makes a mistake, or commits a sin without meaning to will not lose salvation. It is only willful sins that will cost someone their salvation if they do not repent. You know very well that is what I have been saying all along, but that does not work for you, so you return to this misrepresentation of what I am saying. If not for the blood and God's grace, nobody would be saved, because nobody can measure up to God's standards. He does however expect us to obey Him. He expects us to do our best. The Bible states clearly that a person who continues to live a lifestyle of sin will not go to heaven. You can mock it all you want, but that is what it says in many different places. Your doctrine is not Biblical, and your statement that to be saved, we just believe and live as we want is right out of the Satanic Bible. It is not found anywhere in the Christian Bible. It is another gospel, which means you are accursed.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Ofcourse it has to happen:
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)
It is only willful sins that will cost someone their salvation if they do not repent.
Simply unbiblical......the inexcusable misunderstanding of Hebrews 10 rears it’s ugly , Confused head again.....and I am tired of trying to explain it to the “ Stiff- Necked” crowd that dwells here....
Newbies can google “ Hebrews 10 Andrew Farley” for the simple explanation a child could understand—— unless, of course, that child has a Stiff Neck....
Simply unbiblical......the inexcusable misunderstanding of Hebrews 10 rears it’s ugly , Confused head again.....and I am tired of trying to explain it to the “ Stiff- Necked” crowd that dwells here....
Newbies can google “ Hebrews 10 Andrew Farley” for the simple explanation a child could understand—— unless, of course, that child has a Stiff Neck....
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Matthew 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
Clearly, the tares in the parable of the wheat and the tares that Jesus had spoken, are the sons of the wicked one.
And when one reads the parable, what was sowed are the wheat and the tares. Make no mistake, the wheat don’t become tares nor tares become wheat. I say this because some misuse this parable, mixing it with the matter of conversion.
How are the tares known? How are the wheat known? We cannot find that in the parable.
Tong
R4143
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
Clearly, the tares in the parable of the wheat and the tares that Jesus had spoken, are the sons of the wicked one.
And when one reads the parable, what was sowed are the wheat and the tares. Make no mistake, the wheat don’t become tares nor tares become wheat. I say this because some misuse this parable, mixing it with the matter of conversion.
How are the tares known? How are the wheat known? We cannot find that in the parable.
Tong
R4143
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Just want to say, it is God who create anew. It is God who transforms him whom he saves.
Tong
R4144
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