Teaching style and value.

[Enoch111]

If everyone has the same spirit....then how come no 2 believers can agree on anything?

Again, we are going off on an entirely different subject. So let me ask you about the matter of agreement:

1. Do you agree that Scripture tells us that not only were the apostles unable to believe that Christ would be resurrected, but that He Himself told them that there were many things that they would not and could not understand before His resurrection?

2. Do you agree that Scripture tells us that everyone who believes the Gospel will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit?

3. That salvation is by grace through faith and not because anyone can earn salvation, and nothing after that is merited but given freely by God's grace?

4. That every believer has the anointing or unction of the Holy Spirit and can know all things?

If you cannot agree on these fundamentals, even though Scripture tells us these truths, then there is no need for any further discussion.

 

[Episkopos]

Again, we are going off on an entirely different subject. So let me ask you about the matter of agreement:

1. Do you agree that Scripture tells us that not only were the apostles unable to believe that Christ would be resurrected, but that He Himself told them that there were many things that they would not and could not understand before His resurrection?

Nobody could understand the scale of what God had planned. It was impossible to describe...this access into the kingdom of God.

2. Do you agree that Scripture tells us that everyone who believes the Gospel will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit?

This is where we begin to lose the sense of the word so often...what does it mean to "believe" ? To accept Jesus as your saviour?

We could go further by saying...he who believes into Christ has eternal life.

Now, I know what that means...but few would agree with the scale of it.

To receive the gift of the Spirit...is not the same as walking in the Spirit. To receive Christ is not the same as putting on Christ.

As I said earlier...and many times before...we receive Christ as a free SAMPLE of life....but to enter into HIS fullness we need to put on Christ....

3. That salvation is by grace through faith and not because anyone can earn salvation, and nothing after that is merited but given freely by God's grace?

This is to deny that we can go to God for more grace and to put Christ on. God kick starts a beginning to a spiritual life. But we must pursue it. The race is for us to win or lose. You eliminate the whole purpose of receiving grace. God is looking to us to see what we will do. The ball is in our court.

If there was no merit then there could be no rewards. So then you are aiming at the free stuff...and cannot possibly expect any reward. You are limiting your own potential in this way.

4. That every believer has the anointing or unction of the Holy Spirit and can know all things?

If you cannot agree on these fundamentals, even though Scripture tells us these truths, then there is no need for any further discussion.

Every believer has the potential...the seed within. But that seed has a husk around it...that can only be broken by the deeper experience of the cross of Christ. Then the husk is broken...and the life comes out. Until then we have only a hope of glory. But by the cross WE ENTER into that glory.

Paul said he GLORIES in the cross. The cross (the experience thereof) is our access to glory and the fullness of grace.

 

[Enoch111]

Nobody could understand the scale of what God had planned. It was impossible to describe...this access into the kingdom of God.

OK. So what you are saying is that you refuse to accept fundamental Bible truths for what they are.

And then you wonder why there is no agreement. End of discussion.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

A kernel of wheat is just a kernel of wheat until it is planted and dies.
No matter how vociferously it says it has already died in some mystical way.

 

[Episkopos]

OK. So what you are saying is that you refuse to accept fundamental Bible truths for what they are.

And then you wonder why there is no agreement. End of discussion.

I'm an "out-of-the-box person"... Fundamental ...meaning popular misconceptions. Dogma really does get in the way of life. You have to choose one or the other.

 

[lforrest]

Do you agree that Scripture tells us that not only were the apostles unable to believe that Christ would be resurrected, but that He Himself told them that there were many things that they would not and could not understand before His resurrection?

There is an example.

And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Luke 2:26‭-‬32 KJV

So it seems one can't know Jesus is the son of God unless it is revealed.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 KJV

Its like the door was there but the keys were kept secret.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Fundamental does not always mean popular misconceptions though...I believe it is a fundamental belief that Jesus was and is God. That He existed before He was born on earth, that everything was created through Him, including me and you! That He is to be worshipped and that He is the Everlasting Father, Mighty God, Wonderful Counselor.

Others will say I only believe it because it is dogma but I know all the verses that revealed this to me. It wasn't a man or a dogma.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm an "out-of-the-box person"... Fundamental ...meaning popular misconceptions. Dogma really does get in the way of life. You have to choose one or the other.

If you do not even agree with other Christians on the fundamentals of the faith-- calling them "popular misconceptions" -- you are not "out-of-the-box" but out in left field. Actually heterodox.

And that is also sheer arrogance, since Bible truths are being labeled *misconceptions* by no doubt a *guru* who calls himself episkopos.

The very fact that you call fundamentals dogma instead of doctrine shows that you are creating your own theology. So who is the one having problems with *agreement*?

 

[Episkopos]

If you do not even agree with other Christians on the fundamentals of the faith-- calling them "popular misconceptions" -- you are not "out-of-the-box" but out in left field. Actually heterodox.

And that is also sheer arrogance, since Bible truths are being labeled *misconceptions* by no doubt a *guru* who calls himself episkopos.

The very fact that you call fundamentals dogma instead of doctrine shows that you are creating your own theology. So who is the one having problems with *agreement*?

The actual arrogance is that you set yourself up as a paradigm of orthodoxy. You just don't like to be challenged in your rigidity to a doctrinal system that is broken....overly simplistic...and self serving.


I'm claiming that there is more to it than has entered into your limited view. The cross is still before you. The fact that you can't look into it...continues as an historic pattern of the easy short-cutting of the truth that happens among people who are not interested in making the effort to test what they have taken for granted.

This is as unfortunate as it is to be expected.

Dispensationalism promises much...by avoiding the cross altogether....but delivers nothing. Like clouds with no rain.


I follow the tradition of they who preach the cross and are misunderstood....and resisted in ignorance.

Why be afraid?

You would be an agent of they who would stop others from entering into a full experience of Christ.

You would have others stop short of the calling from God...as you have.


What you are calling the finish line...is just the place you have run out of gas.

This is your limitation...saying..."I will go this far and no further.":

But you will never admit it.

 

[Episkopos]

One of the consistent hallmarks of the teachings of Jesus and His followers has been the cost of discipleship. The way forward is difficult and narrow. Jesus tells us this quite plainly. People have been trying to avoid the cross ever since.

 

[bbyrd009]

A kernel of wheat is just a kernel of wheat until it is planted and dies.
No matter how vociferously it says it has already died in some mystical way.

you can't fake humility for long i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

So it seems one can't know Jesus is the son of God unless it is revealed.

ah, so at least we know where Christ is revealed now huh

 

[lforrest]

ah, so at least we know where Christ is revealed now huh

Do we?

 

[amadeus]

There is for sure a difference between the anointing upon a preacher and the anointing upon a teacher.

An un-anointed teacher can get dry and boring...yet when the anointing is doing the teaching through him...one could sit there for hours...
I too enjoy a interactive teaching ... I have seen it when the question time at the end of a teaching time , is even better than he actual teaching itself.

The anointed teacher does make the difference, but to deaf or distracted ears it still amounts to nothing at all.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do we?

i dunno, maybe not
sure doesn't seem like where Christ is revealed should be a mystery to someone claiming to be a Christian, forrest

 

[lforrest]

i dunno, maybe not
sure doesn't seem like where Christ is revealed should be a mystery to someone claiming to be a Christian, forrest

So there is no need to elaborate.

 

[bbyrd009]

So there is no need to elaborate.

um, amen?