Ten Commandments

[sniper762]

ive been a christian for many years. ive been to many churches and listened to many preacher's sermons. i read my kjv bible very carefully and got very different stories from the traditional biblical stories that are taught. a couple, i have discussed with others on this board and i have been ridiculed for my interpretation of what i read. nevertheless i present another for debate. traditionally it is believed that moses only received 10 commandments from god on mt. siniah, written by the hand of god. i understand that moses wrote MANY commandments INSPIRED by god within the 40 days and nights that he spent on the mountain. these MANY more than 10 commandments, written on both sides of the clay tablets were brought down by moses to become laws to govern the israelites. the following verses are from where i get my understanding.

TEN COMMANDMENTS GIVEN TO MOSES EX 20 1-17
MOSES COMES DOWN FROM SANAI AND SPEAKS EX 20 19 - EX 23 33
MOSES SUMMONDED TO SANAI 40 DAYS AND NIGHTS EX 24 12-18
MOSES RECEIVES TABERNACLE PLANS FROM GOD EX 25 1 - EX 31 18
MOSES SPOKEN TO BY GOD FROM THE BURNING BUSH EX 3 1-23 - EX 4 1-23
TEN COMMANDMENTS TABLETS EX 31 18
GOLDEN CALF MADE EX 32 1-35
TEN COMMANDMENTS TABLETS EX 32 15-16
TEN COMMANDMENTS TABLETS BROKEN EX 32 19

what do YOU get?

 

[whirlwind]

ive been a christian for many years. ive been to many churches and listened to many preacher's sermons. i read my kjv bible very carefully and got very different stories from the traditional biblical stories that are taught. a couple, i have discussed with others on this board and i have been ridiculed for my interpretation of what i read. nevertheless i present another for debate. traditionally it is believed that moses only received 10 commandments from god on mt. siniah, written by the hand of god. i understand that moses wrote MANY commandments INSPIRED by god within the 40 days and nights that he spent on the mountain. these MANY more than 10 commandments, written on both sides of the clay tablets were brought down by moses to become laws to govern the israelites. the following verses are from where i get my understanding.

TEN COMMANDMENTS GIVEN TO MOSES EX 20 1-17
MOSES COMES DOWN FROM SANAI AND SPEAKS EX 20 19 - EX 23 33
MOSES SUMMONDED TO SANAI 40 DAYS AND NIGHTS EX 24 12-18
MOSES RECEIVES TABERNACLE PLANS FROM GOD EX 25 1 - EX 31 18
MOSES SPOKEN TO BY GOD FROM THE BURNING BUSH EX 3 1-23 - EX 4 1-23
TEN COMMANDMENTS TABLETS EX 31 18
GOLDEN CALF MADE EX 32 1-35
TEN COMMANDMENTS TABLETS EX 32 15-16
TEN COMMANDMENTS TABLETS BROKEN EX 32 19

what do YOU get?

Hi Sniper, I haven't studied this at all so probably shouldn't comment but from what I remember....I think you're right. I hope to find time to look into the verses you provided.

 

[sniper762]

i forgot a few verses that tell of the second set of tables written.

MOSES, GOD TELLS TO KILL 3000 ISRAELITES EX 32 27-28
MOSES SPEAKS TO GOD FACE TO FACE EX 33 11
MOSES, TOLD BY GOD THAT HE CANNOT SEE HIS FACE EX 33 20-23
TEN COMMANDMENTS, 2ND SET MOSES RECEIVES EX 34 1-28

 

[jiggyfly]

This is my understanding, the ten commandments were those written by God himself, all the others were given by God to Moses to write down and instruct the people of Israel but all of them were from God through Moses to Israel. All, including the ten were part of God's covenant with Israel.

 

[sniper762]

This is my understanding, the ten commandments were those written by God himself, all the others were given by God to Moses to write down and instruct the people of Israel but all of them were from God through Moses to Israel. All, including the ten were part of God's covenant with Israel.

thats a good way of putting it but the ten commandments are portrayed, today as the two tablets that contain "nothing but" the ten commandments. remember, the original tablets that moses said were written by the hand of god were broken. moses went back on the mountain and stayed for 40 days and nights in which HE wrote the commandments. he wouldnt have taken that long to write ten sentences.

so the tablets that were kept in the ark must have contained moses' second set of tables which included all of the laws, not just ten.

so, my point is that the traditional view of "the ten commandments" is misrepresented. i picture the two tablets as a book or scroll written by moses.

 

[Brother Mike]

In Monty Python and the Holy Grail. We know that one of those tablets were broken. So, now we assume to be missing 5 commandments. I am sure Monty Python would not lie.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


There is all your commandments......................

Jesus Is Lord

 

[sniper762]

funny joke, but in alll sincerety, the bible says that the tablets,(plural) were broken.

if they were still readable, then there would have been no need for moses to go back to do them again.

 

[JarBreaker]

This is my understanding, the ten commandments were those written by God himself, all the others were given by God to Moses to write down and instruct the people of Israel but all of them were from God through Moses to Israel. All, including the ten were part of God's covenant with Israel.

Deut. chapt. 5 is telling of the giving of the Torah ( law, commandments or instructions ) ...


5:25-27
But now, why should we die? This great fire will consume us, and we will die if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any longer.
For what mortal man has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived?
Go near and listen to all that the LORD our God says. Then tell us whatever the LORD our God tells you. We will listen and obey."


5:25-27 is telling how the people of Israel were so terrified to hear the voice of the Almighty ... after only receiving the 1st ten commands DIRECTLY ... they begged for Moses to go and be His emmissary to them and return to speak for Him.


The giving of the Torah wasnt merely the giving of a covenant ... those tablets of stone are carried on in Jewish tradtion and known as a Ketubah ( marriage contract )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketubah


There are 248 positive commands and 365 negative commands listed ... basically anytime you see, "thou shall do / shall not do" ... these total 613.

Now, not all 613 ever pertained to anyone person at all times.

As you go through where it speaks of the construction of the Tabernacle in the wilderness, there are certain commands given only to Arron and his sons, and his following descedants who made up the tribe of Levi.

There are certain commands for only men and for only women ... circumcision and ritual purity for the menstrual cycle for examples. Some were even given regarding the land itself, to let it lie fallow every 7th and 50th year.

There are certain commands for specific times or events ... the "leprosy" ( this word almost certainly describes a condition that isnt known today ) commands ... there are even commands for buildings to be ritually cleaned and if ineffective to be destroyed.



Many of the 613 commands were only regarding the proper set-up / sanctification and sacrificial aspects of the Tabernacle and later, the Temple. When Messiah cried out, " it is finished " and the veil was rent in twain ... these are the only commands He was referring to ... the CEREMONIAL laws ... not the MORAL laws.



Deut. 30:19
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live


There are blessings and curses listed along in accordance to all these commands.


Matt. 5:18
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


" All being accomplished " wasnt meaning the Work of the Cross ... it means the redemption of all His people ... WHY would our Savior speak against the MORAL law, knowing there are curses upon us for breaking it ?

 

[sniper762]

then christians teach that the "ten commandments" are the only part of the covenant that are 'the not to do" things today.
its even believed that "the ten commandments" were kept in the ark of tthe covenant.

they are depicted today as only "ten on the tablets
you've seen the typical list of the 'ten" posted eveywhere.

i think that many misunderstand the story completely.

 

[jiggyfly]

then christians teach that the "ten commandments" are the only part of the covenant that are 'the not to do" things today.
its even believed that "the ten commandments" were kept in the ark of tthe covenant.

they are depicted today as only "ten on the tablets
you've seen the typical list of the 'ten" posted eveywhere.

i think that many misunderstand the story completely.

I agree, many do misunderstand the commandments, many think that it applies to everyone today, yet scripture clearly states that all the commandments were part of a covenant between God and the people of Israel. It was latter replace by a new and better covenant between God and all humanity.

 

[JarBreaker]

I agree, many do misunderstand the commandments, many think that it applies to everyone today, yet scripture clearly states that all the commandments were part of a covenant between God and the people of Israel. It was latter replace by a new and better covenant between God and all humanity.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.


ALL Israel will be saved, why else would Jacob ( Northern kingdom of Israel ) be listed here ? and not the church ??


Eze. 37:17
"Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with him.'


I'd be highly suspicious of any "new and better covenant with humanity" that did not include Judah.

 

[JarBreaker]

The giving of the Torah wasnt merely the giving of a covenant ... those tablets of stone are carried on in Jewish tradtion and known as a Ketubah ( marriage contract )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketubah

Wanted to expand on this a bit.

Judah did not just keep the idea of the Commands ( all 613, not just the 1st ten which scared them out of their wits to hear from His voice on top the mountain ) as a Ketubah alive in their cultural traditions,
they kept the whole pictorial representation of the Wedding of the Lamb alive ( though they didnt accept Him and only understood in part ) in their courtship / marriage traditions.


Now, I don't have a study on this at hand, and only remember a couple broad points ... i'll try to find some more details and add it in later, if this thread still holds interest.


John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am


In Hebrew tradtions, once a young couple were betrothed, the groom went away to prepare a place for them to live.


Matt. 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


Again, in Hebrew tradition ... the groom spent his time away preparing the place to bring his bride home to ... when it was ready, he would come to her home IN THE MIDST OF THE NIGHT ... and take her to be with him ... the bride didnt know when, her parents didnt know when, he came as a "thief in the night"

 

[jiggyfly]

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.


ALL Israel will be saved, why else would Jacob ( Northern kingdom of Israel ) be listed here ? and not the church ??


Eze. 37:17
"Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with him.'


I'd be highly suspicious of any "new and better covenant with humanity" that did not include Judah.

Not sure what your point in this post is, can you elaborate?

Don't you think that Judah is included in humanity, or do you consider them something other?