The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[michaelvpardo]

So He just explained what it would really mean to keep the ten commandments. I do not think anyone can keep them all the time. We can agree to disagree

So in what manner were Elizabeth and Zachariah, the parents of John the Baptist, righteous? If you recall the gospel narrative, Zachariah was silenced by Gabriel for not believing the angel's message, so it wouldn't seem to be any reference to the righteousness of faith. I won't pursue your response, I'd just like to know how you explain what the text says.

 

[Abigail]

I'm surprised this is an issue.
They tell us what we can't do according to God. If they're not forever does that mean we can do now?

 

[dad]

So in what manner were Elizabeth and Zachariah, the parents of John the Baptist, righteous? If you recall the gospel narrative, Zachariah was silenced by Gabriel for not believing the angel's message, so it wouldn't seem to be any reference to the righteousness of faith. I won't pursue your response, I'd just like to know how you explain what the text says.

I think the guy tried. He did the best he could. He more or less kept the commandments. No one is perfect, but compared to others in the nation, he kept the commandments. As we got to know God better after this we see that what He wants is belief. Believe in Jesus and you shall be saved. So we can see why the angel was not too pleased, despite the righteous man being pretty good otherwise. I don't think when it mentions people kept the law or were righteous that this meant perfectly, and always and every single law. I think it means they tried to keep them as much as they could. They made a real effort.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I think the guy tried. He did the best he could. He more or less kept the commandments. No one is perfect, but compared to others in the nation, he kept the commandments. As we got to know God better after this we see that what He wants is belief. Believe in Jesus and you shall be saved. So we can see why the angel was not too pleased, despite the righteous man being pretty good otherwise. I don't think when it mentions people kept the law or were righteous that this meant perfectly, and always and every single law. I think it means they tried to keep them as much as they could. They made a real effort.

Thank you for your response. The sacrifices of the law, beyond representing the final sacrifice of the Son of God, were only meant to be a temporary "covering" for sin. The Hebrew word generally translated as "atonement" means "to cover". And the law only provided a "covering" for unintentional sin, not intentional transgression. The New covenant is different in that Jesus' blood covers all sin, intentional and unintentional. Repentance wasn't even a consideration under the law and the intentional breaking of most commandments, even more than the ten, frequently carried the penalty to be cut off from Israel, a euphemism for the death penalty. This is why some Jews rigorously opposed Paul and the doctrines of grace, and opposed Christ for forgiving sin by example, as in the woman caught in the act of adultery.
Thank you again for your reply.

 

[michaelvpardo]

We could now say that they are written to all humanity. The question which should be asked is this: "Why did God personally write those commandments on tablets of stone -- not once but twice -- when He could have simply dictated them?" And why were they repeated in two books of the Torah, when one book would have sufficed?" These facts in themselves show how extremely important they were (and still are). They are both moral and spiritual, not merely moral (as many claim).

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A lot of folks here struggle with number IX. V would probably have buried me at the age of 13. However, even in Israel prior to the Babylonian captivity, the Hebrews rarely kept them faithfully, or were reluctant to enforce them.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Yes.

If I'm not mistaken, God actually did speak them to the people at the time, but it scared them SO bad, their hearts almost failed them.

Deuteronomy 4:11
Deuteronomy 4:12
*Deuteronomy 4:13*
Exodus 20:19

It actually always makes me laugh a little because it had to be absolutely ... TERRIFYING.

Considering that even putting a foot on Sinai carried the death penalty didn't help.
Just a side note: ever see one of the documentaries on "the real Mt. Sinai", Jebel Musa in Saudi Arabia. Both follow the trail of Moses and Israel across a submerged plateau in the red sea with coral formations that amazingly resemble pieces of chariots embedded in the silt, past the springs of Elam, a great split rock formation with deep water stains in the midst of a desert, a huge rough stone altar with Egyptian petroglyphs on it, to a mountain with a blackened top, that is fenced off by the Saudi government, Jebel Musa.
I found it fascinating and a faith builder, but it isn't the historically recognized location of Mt. Sinai in Egypt., but the location that fits the biblical description. Personally, I'd love to visit the mount, but the Saudis don't allow visitors and even post a patrol to keep people out. The local Bedouins, residents for thousands of years, still recognize the place as where Moses received the law.

 

[GEN2REV]

Since CHRIST HIMSELF set aside the first day of the week (forget the word "Sunday" since it is not in the Bible) as the Lord's Day, you cannot have any higher authority than that.

Does not exist anywhere in scripture.

 

[GEN2REV]

So He just explained what it would really mean to keep the ten commandments. I do not think anyone can keep them all the time. We can agree to disagree

Not without the Holy Spirit of Christ, who kept them all His life on the earth, empowering and teaching and giving the desire to from within.
John 15:10

 

[GEN2REV]

ever see one of the documentaries on "the real Mt. Sinai", Jebel Musa in Saudi Arabia. Both follow the trail of Moses and Israel across a submerged plateau in the red sea with coral formations that amazingly resemble pieces of chariots embedded in the silt, past the springs of Elam, a great split rock formation with deep water stains in the midst of a desert, a huge rough stone altar with Egyptian petroglyphs on it, to a mountain with a blackened top, that is fenced off by the Saudi government, Jebel Musa.
I found it fascinating and a faith builder, but it isn't the historically recognized location of Mt. Sinai in Lebanon, but the location that fits the biblical description. Personally, I'd love to visit the mount, but the Saudis don't allow visitors and even post a patrol to keep people out. The local Bedouins, residents for thousands of years, still recognize the place as where Moses received the law.

No, but I'd definitely watch it. Sounds great.

 

[michaelvpardo]

No, but I'd definitely watch it. Sounds great.

One of the documentaries was filmed by a couple of adventurers that risked a Saudi prison to film it, but the other was more in depth and involved Christian students of archeology and explanations of coral formation. I appreciated the more legitimate approach.
If you have Amazon prime, you can see the one made unlawfully for free. I don't recall where I streamed the other one, but if it wasn't on Prime it had to be on Netflix or Hulu. Those are the only services I've bought.

This is the one filmed by the advententurers.
Watch The Search For The Real Mt. Sinai | Prime Video

After looking around a bit, I couldn't find the other documentary, but found footage on YouTube from it. The location of the peculiar coral formations is further north on the Egyptian side of the red sea off Nuweiba Beach and was spliced into footage from the other documentary. The two locations don't match which may be why the video is on YouTube and no longer streamed on the other services I mentioned, but "The search for the real Mt. Sinai" covers the biblical journey on the Saudi side from the submerged ridge line and the most compelling evidence. Even the potential location of the cave Elijah fled to at Horeb, the bitter springs, as well as a series of a string of piled stones at equidistant spacing around half the base of jabal lawz (Jebel musa) marking the limits for the approach of the tribes, and a large man made altar at their center and at the foot of the mountain (I purchased streaming rights so I watched it again. It's still awesome. )

 

[quietthinker]

I'm surprised this is an issue.
They tell us what we can't do according to God. If they're not forever does that mean we can do now?

what did you have in mind?

 

[dad]

Not without the Holy Spirit of Christ, who kept them all His life on the earth, empowering and teaching and giving the desire to from within.
John 15:10

Well, salvation is not something we keep by good works any more than works gets us saved to begin with. As I said we are told to forgive our brothers 490 times if needed. That indicates that we sin and need to forgive and be forgiven. Paul did things he didn't like and did not do things he wished he had done. We are a work in progress, not yet perfect.

 

[Abigail]

what did you have in mind?

Sorry?

 

[quietthinker]

Sorry?

when you said 'If they're not forever does that mean we can do now?' I assumed you had in mind breaking some of the Commandments and was asking the question which ones you had in mind.

 

[BarneyFife]

So yes, when we see some trying to make obeying His commandments mean obeying rituals of Sabbath day, and the laws of Moses, those who know Him do not share their opinion.

There is no need to make anything seem any way. Sabbath-keepers didn't place the 4th commandment where it is. God did that. And rarely will you find a Sabbath-keeper implying that those who don't keep the Sabbath don't know Him. Too bad that doesn't go both ways.

 

[BarneyFife]

Since CHRIST HIMSELF set aside the first day of the week as the Lord's Day,

Yeah, never happened.

(forget the word "Sunday" since it is not in the Bible)

Hard to forget since whenever someone refers to the first day of the week they're also talking about the day we call "Sunday."

Ellen G. White created a trap and you got entrapped.

Mrs. White never formulated a doctrine in her 70+ years of ministry. Sunday-keeping Adventists got the word on 7th day Sabbath-keeping from the Seventh-day Baptists. It's not that hard to research Seventh-day Adventist church history if you're really interested. Of course, it's always easier just to go a-slandering.

Did you ever ask yourself why the Resurrected Savior waited for eight days in order to show Himself to doubting Thomas?

Well, I'm sure it wasn't to slyly sneak a revised 4th commandment in on us.

Chew on that for a while.

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Sorry @Backlit , I just couldn't resist checking this nonsense.

 

[quietthinker]

Yeah, never happened.

Hard to forget since whenever someone refers to the first day of the week they're also talking about the day we call "Sunday."

Mrs. White never formulated a doctrine in her 70+ years of ministry. Sunday-keeping Adventists got the word on 7th day Sabbath-keeping from the Seventh-day Baptists. It's not that hard to research Seventh-day Adventist church history if you're really interested. Of course, it's always easier just to go a-slandering.

Well, I'm sure it wasn't to slyly sneak a revised 4th commandment in on us.


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Sorry @Backlit , I just couldn't resist checking this nonsense.

nonsense it is indeed!

 

[dad]

There is no need to make anything seem any way. Sabbath-keepers didn't place the 4th commandment where it is. God did that.

The meaning of keeping the Sabbath with the Pharisees was not shared with the meaning of the day with Jesus. He was about healing and loving and they were about rituals and laws about Sabbath day. Jesus honoured that day. Just not the way the religious people did. His heart was always the same.

Isa 1:
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

And rarely will you find a Sabbath-keeper implying that those who don't keep the Sabbath don't know Him. Too bad that doesn't go both ways.

I disagree. The people gung ho on keeping the law and rituals and such do make out like they are doing something that God requires of us.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I don't mind if some are weak. Or if some can't eat meat. The problem is when they offer their weakness as strength.

 

[Brakelite]

Since CHRIST HIMSELF set aside the first day of the week (forget the word "Sunday" since it is not in the Bible) as the Lord's Day, you cannot have any higher authority than that. Ellen G. White created a trap and you got entrapped.

Did you ever ask yourself why the Resurrected Savior waited for eight days in order to show Himself to doubting Thomas? Chew on that for a while.

I'm gagging on all that.

 

[Brakelite]

Sorry @Backlit , I just couldn't resist checking this nonsense

Forgiven.