The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[GodsGrace]

the expression 'Day of the Lord' is assumed to be Sunday because as you know it is argued from the point of the resurrection but the association is incorrect. Jesus tells us which day he is Lord of .....the context is indisputable.

It's not indisputable QT.
Jesus being the Lord of the Sabbath means He can do with it as He wishes.

If the Sabbath was so important, the Apostles would not have allowed for it to be changed.

 

[quietthinker]

Does this mean that we are not obligated to observe the 7th day?

It seems that way to me.
Also, paul reiterated that we should not allow ourselves to be judged as to diet or feast day keeping.

God's finger written ten stand. For us mortals it is the basic measure of what constitutes sin.

 

[quietthinker]

It's not indisputable QT.
Jesus being the Lord of the Sabbath means He can do with it as He wishes.

If the Sabbath was so important, the Apostles would not have allowed for it to be changed.

It means that he has put this day aside by blessing and hallowing it.....or maybe you think you are at liberty to disregard what God has set aside and substitute a day that suits you better?

Edit....sorry for my shortness, it's not intended to be unkind.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The Laws of the O.T. were Jewish, not Christian.
The queston to Chabad would be pertaining to the Jewish Laws.

I'm unable to find a list of the Laws. I used to have it.
The following is the best I can do. You'll see that the Sabbath is considered a Ceremonial Law and not a Moral Law, as is every other commandment.

Three Old Testament Law Categories - Ceremonial - Civil - Moral

What are the main divisions of the Old Testament Law?

What is the difference between the ceremonial law, the moral law, and the judicial law in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org

Paul unequivocally stated in Eph. 2:20 and 2 Tim. 3:16-17 that biblical Christianity consists of the apostles and prophets' writings. Jesus said the same exact thing in Matt. 4:4 and Luk. 4:4 where He said man is to live by every word that came from the mouth of God. Are the people who believe the Bible really supposed to buy this ridiculous logic of yours'? I dare you to find the passage(s) that specifically calls the Sabbath a ceremonial law or that Christians aren't supposed to live by God's laws. I can guarantee that you won't, because they don't exist.

 

[BarneyFife]

I must say I'm pretty disappointed. I perceive that you are very sincere and honest about your beliefs, but again you evaded and deflected and barely addressed my questions at all.

Good question. I did give a verse from Isa showing how He hates ritual celebration rather than love. I am not the one peddling holy day observances, not working, no movies, etc etc etc.

It seems that God had some other things to say about the sabbath later on in the book of Isaiah. Of course, you're free to disregard them in favor of texts that seem to support your position. Some call that cherry-picking around here.

Isaiah 58:13 KJV: If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isaiah 58:14 KJV: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Isaiah 66:22 KJV: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isaiah 66:23 KJV: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

There are commandments and laws and holy days. All great stuff. Don't put the cart before the horse, and remember the main thing is to love Jesus all days. If you esteem Sat or some other day more than the rest, do not expect me to share that.

In this thread, the main thing is the perpetuity of the ten commandments. If you don't want to talk about the ten commandments, you're probably hanging out in the wrong thread.

It really doesn't matter what day I esteem. What matters is what the Bible teaches. I don't expect you to do anything. I suspect that you'll do exactly what you want to do.

Many, many people on this forum and others really act as if they have been legitimately bullied spiritually by Sabbath-keepers. I suspect this is true in some cases. But I know firsthand that it is the exception to the rule. I have never, ever questioned anyone's standing with God. I wish I could say that that is the case with others towards other Sabbath-keepers and myself.

Those who wish to restrict the liberty of speech and religion by accusing and condemning those who testify to the perpetuity of the entire law of God (not Moses) are free to attempt to do so. They often succeed.

 

[BarneyFife]

You'll see that the Sabbath is considered a Ceremonial Law and not a Moral Law, as is every other commandment.

I see that such is claimed, but it is incorrect.
I prefer to view the Bible through itself, rather than what a website claims it says. I'm funny that way. Not that there are no websites I agree with about certain things, mind you.

 

[dad]

Dad, I agree with what you've stated above.
I'll also say that it's faith that has always saved a person and the atonement is what allows us into heaven since nothing impure will be allowed to enter. Jesus's atoning sacrifice is what allows everyone to be saved/worthy,,,past, present and future. This is why we say that He died for the whole world.

I haven't read every post so I apologize if I'm repeating, but you say we're no longer under the law.
Do you mean the Commanments?
We're required to obey the moral law, the law of Christ would cover them, the 2 great commandments.

What does it mean to you that we are not under the law but under grace?

The only law we are under is the law of love. The others are all well and good and cheers to people quietly trying to keep them the best they can. We are free from the laws of sin and of death. Free free free. Really free. Scott free. So if someone feels they can't eat meat, well fine. They are free also. Someone wants to circumcise a child to fit in? No problem. Someone wants to have fellowship on a Sat? No sweat. (go on Sun also if you like, Wed too). I simply do not wish to be brought into bondage by any man. (yes I am also against the vaccine mandates!). Does someone want to get vaxxed three times a week? As much as I might suggest otherwise, they are free to operate according to their faith.
Galatians 5:2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Galatians 5:3
Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Galatians 5:5
For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.


Rom 5
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin works no ill to his brother, so those under grace and His love of course will be less likely to trespass against others. One would hope that as a Christian grows older in the faith that would be more and more true.

 

[dad]

I must say I'm pretty disappointed. I perceive that you are very sincere and honest about your beliefs, but again you evaded and deflected and barely addressed my questions at all.


It seems that God had some other things to say about the sabbath later on in the book of Isaiah. Of course, you're free to disregard them in favor of texts that seem to support your position. Some call that cherry-picking around here.

Isaiah 58:13 KJV: If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isaiah 58:14 KJV: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Isaiah 66:22 KJV: For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isaiah 66:23 KJV: And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

In this thread, the main thing is the perpetuity of the ten commandments. If you don't want to talk about the ten commandments, you're probably hanging out in the wrong thread.

It really doesn't matter what day I esteem. What matters is what the Bible teaches. I don't expect you to do anything. I suspect that you'll do exactly what you want to do.

Many, many people on this forum and others really act as if they have been legitimately bullied spiritually by Sabbath-keepers. I suspect this is true in some cases. But I know firsthand that it is the exception to the rule. I have never, ever questioned anyone's standing with God. I wish I could say that that is the case with others towards other Sabbath-keepers and myself.

Those who wish to restrict the liberty of speech and religion by accusing and condemning those who testify to the perpetuity of the entire law of God (not Moses) are free to attempt to do so. They often succeed.

I think I covered this in my last post to Godsgrace. As for 'bullied' that usually applies to someone stronger or bigger imposing things on those weaker. The strong position is the law of love and the freedom in Christ. You can't bully me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Go by spiritual discernment. What did Christ do on Sabbath days? Empty ceremonies?

I posted 3 links Enoch.
I don't know what more to do.
We'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." "The Anti-Nicene Fathers," Vol 7,p. 413. From "Constitutions of the Holy Apostles," a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

"When you are in Rome, do as Rome does." —Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan gave rise to this proverb by stating that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome he observed Sunday.

"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." "Antiquities of the Christian Church," Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.

"In the last half of that century (4th) St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had 'traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres' (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment." Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.

Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira (3005ad) reveals that the Church of Spain at that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. "As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath." This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.

Persia-A.D. 335-375

"They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." O'Leary, "The Syriac Church and Fathers," pp.83, 84.

Council Laodicea - A.D.365

"Canon 16-On Saturday the Gospels and other portions of the Scripture shall be read aloud." "Canon 29-Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day." Hefele's "Councils," Vol. 2, b. 6.

Let me jump a few centuries to save time and space...

Scotland and Ireland 7th century

Professor James C. Moffatt, D.D., Professor of Church History at Princeton, says: It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labour. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of week." "The Church in Scotland," p.140.



Scotland 10th century

"They worked on Sunday, but kept Saturday in a Sabbatical manner." A history of Scotland from the Roman Occupation, Vol. I, p.96. Andrew Lang

Church Of The East - Kurdistan

"The Nestorians eat no pork and keep the Sabbath. They believe in neither auricular confession nor purgatory." Schaff-Herzog, "The New Encyclopaedia of Religious Knowledge," art. "Nestorians."

Waldenses

"And because they observed no other day of rest but the Sabbath days, they called them Insabathas, as much as to say, as they observed no Sabbath." Luther's "Fore-Runners" (original spelling), PP. 7, 8

Roman Catholic writers try to evade the apostolic origin of the Waldenses, so as to make it appear that the Roman is the only apostolic church, and that all others are later novelties. And for this reason they try to make out that the Waldenses originated with Peter Waldo of the twelfth century. Dr. Peter Allix says:

"Some Protestants, on this occasion, have fallen into the snare that was set for them...It is absolutely false, that these churches were ever found by Peter Waldo...it is a pure forgery." Ancient Church of Piedmont, pp.192, Oxford: 1821

"It is not true, that Waldo gave this name to the inhabitants of the valleys: they were called Waldenses, or Vaudes, before his time, from the valleys in which they dwelt." "Id., p. 182

On the other hand, he "was called Valdus, or Waldo, because he received his religious notions from the inhabitants of the valleys." History of the Christian Church, William Jones, Vol II, p.2

I could go on, every century having evidence of Sabbath observance. And every century having evidence of the Catholic church's hatred for the Sabbath, and her determination to get rid of it, and persecute Sabbath observers. Just as Christians on this forum attempt to do every time it comes up in discussion.

The above is referring to different sects...not the CC.
Ambrose is speaking about fasting...not worshipping on any particular day.
Some of the statements above do not help your case.
Some of the statements are very young and not in keeping with the early church.

I like what Augustine said here:

As to the question on which you wish my opinion, “whether it is lawful to fast on the seventh day of the week,”[1] I answer, that if it were wholly unlawful, neither Moses nor Elijah, nor our Lord Himself, would have fasted for forty successive days.

But by the same argument it is proved that even on the Lord’s day fasting is not unlawful. And yet, if any one were to think that the Lord’s day should be appointed a day of fasting, in the same way as the seventh day is observed by some, such a man would be regarded, and not unjustly, as bringing a great cause of offence into the Church. For in those things concerning which the divine Scriptures have laid down no definite rule, the custom of the people of God, or the practices instituted by their fathers, are to be held as the law of the Church.[2]

If we choose to fall into a debate about these things, and to denounce one party merely because their custom differs from that of others, the consequence must be an endless contention, in which the utmost care is necessary lest the storm of conflict overcast with clouds the calmness of brotherly love, while strength is spent in mere controversy which cannot adduce on either side any decisive testimonies of truth. This danger the author has not been careful to avoid, whose prolix dissertation you deemed worth sending to me with your former letter, that I might answer his arguments.

I believe a person should worship on the day he believes to be the right day.
As a SPECIAL worship...really we should worship God every day, which I'd say you probably do.

 

[GodsGrace]

It means that he has put this day aside by blessing and hallowing it.....or maybe you think you are at liberty to disregard what God has set aside and substitute a day that suits you better?

Edit....sorry for my shortness, it's not intended to be unkind.

No problem QT.

I don't think I'm at liberty.
I don't base what I believe on just what I think is right.
Most of Christianity worships on Sunday -- there must be a reason for this.

I get scolded for reading the thoughts of the ECFs...
but I also read what they believed about other matters that are questioned.
For example: Baptism, obedience, divorce, and also the worship day.

The Lord's Day is spoken of clearly in the Didache...The Teachings of the Apostles.
Also, Justin Martyr, student of Irenaeus (through John the Apostle) mentions Sunday in one of his writings.
He states: AND ON THE DAY CALLED SUNDAY... 160AD

I also found a reference stating that pagans believed Christians worshipped the Sun god because they worshipped on Sunday.

I can only repeat what I've stated...
IF this was so important, I do believe it would have been mentioned in scripture.

I also found a good dealing of writing saying we should worship every day - which I'm sure we all do.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul unequivocally stated in Eph. 2:20 and 2 Tim. 3:16-17 that biblical Christianity consists of the apostles and prophets' writings. Jesus said the same exact thing in Matt. 4:4 and Luk. 4:4 where He said man is to live by every word that came from the mouth of God. Are the people who believe the Bible really supposed to buy this ridiculous logic of yours'? I dare you to find the passage(s) that specifically calls the Sabbath a ceremonial law or that Christians aren't supposed to live by God's laws. I can guarantee that you won't, because they don't exist.

1. Did teaching stop/end when the Apostles died?


2. Here is a copy of my post no. 965:

The Laws of the O.T. were Jewish, not Christian.
The queston to Chabad would be pertaining to the Jewish Laws.

I'm unable to find a list of the Laws. I used to have it.
The following is the best I can do. You'll see that the Sabbath is considered a Ceremonial Law and not a Moral Law, as is every other commandment.

Three Old Testament Law Categories - Ceremonial - Civil - Moral

What are the main divisions of the Old Testament Law?

What is the difference between the ceremonial law, the moral law, and the judicial law in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org


3. You think all of what we are to observe is in the bible?
You could study Leviticus, if you so wish...it'll be found there regarding the Sabbath and other feast days.

4. You don't have to agree with my ridiculous logic - which most of Christianity agrees with. Western and Eastern.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see that such is claimed, but it is incorrect.
I prefer to view the Bible through itself, rather than what a website claims it says. I'm funny that way. Not that there are no websites I agree with about certain things, mind you.

It's not agreeing with any website.
I didn't learn theology through the web...there was no web.
However, it is easy to look up topics and post them when I'm asked to.
My words count for very little...but there are scholars and theologians that study the bible and know much more than we do.
I find nothing wrong in also reading what they might think...as long as I can see that it's scriptural.

Quite frankly, I don't understand why this topic is questioned so much.
Don't we have the right to worship on the day we believe to be correct?
Do you think worshipping on the wrong day will bring judgment upon us?

Again, if the Apostles believed it would, I'm sure they would have stated it clearly,
just as other topics of salvation are clearly stated. (for instance,,,our belief, our behavior).

 

[GodsGrace]

The only law we are under is the law of love. The others are all well and good and cheers to people quietly trying to keep them the best they can. We are free from the laws of sin and of death. Free free free. Really free. Scott free. So if someone feels they can't eat meat, well fine. They are free also. Someone wants to circumcise a child to fit in? No problem. Someone wants to have fellowship on a Sat? No sweat. (go on Sun also if you like, Wed too). I simply do not wish to be brought into bondage by any man. (yes I am also against the vaccine mandates!). Does someone want to get vaxxed three times a week? As much as I might suggest otherwise, they are free to operate according to their faith.
Galatians 5:2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
Galatians 5:3
Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
Galatians 5:5
For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.


Rom 5
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin works no ill to his brother, so those under grace and His love of course will be less likely to trespass against others. One would hope that as a Christian grows older in the faith that would be more and more true.

OK
Again, I agree with all you say.

But do you ever feel that the way in which you word this could be taken incorrectly by a new Christian or a non-Christian?

IOW,,,this is how I understand Law and Grace:

We are REQUIRED to follow the Moral Law...
The Law of Christ...
The 2 Great Commandments.

Being under the law refers to the law of Moses...at Mt. Sinai.
God gave the laws for reasons we won't get into (which I'm sure you know)...
But the people had no power to follow them.

Being under grace gives us the ABILITY to follow the Moral Law because we now have the
Holy Spirit dwelling in us. In the O.T. the Holy Spirit did not dwell in persons...at least not that I could see/understand.

This is what Jesus means in John 15:5 Apart from Jesus we can do nothing.

So, the question is: Are we required to follow the Moral Law?
Are we helped to keep it to the best of our ability?
Or, to you, would this mean we're still under the law?

(some say they never sin...this is unbiblical).

 

[Enoch111]

I posted 3 links Enoch.
I don't know what more to do. We'll just have to disagree on this one.

Those links don't necessarily present what we believe is the true breakdown of the commandments. Sure we can disagree, but don't lock yourself into what someone may have presently incorrectly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those links don't necessarily present what we believe is the true breakdown of the commandments. Sure we can disagree, but don't lock yourself into what someone may have presently incorrectly.

But what's incorrect about it?
I linked it because all 3 state that observing the Sabbath is ceremonial and not moral.
That's the only reason for the links.
I don't believe this could be disputed.
All the 9 commandments are moral.
Going to church is not moral.

I think we should end it here.
I do think about everything very carefully and I also have to note that most of Christianity worships on Sunday.
Could all those theologians be wrong?
Just a rhetorical question...

 

[dad]

OK
Again, I agree with all you say.

But do you ever feel that the way in which you word this could be taken incorrectly by a new Christian or a non-Christian?

IOW,,,this is how I understand Law and Grace:

We are REQUIRED to follow the Moral Law...
The Law of Christ...
The 2 Great Commandments.

Being under the law refers to the law of Moses...at Mt. Sinai.
God gave the laws for reasons we won't get into (which I'm sure you know)...
But the people had no power to follow them.

Being under grace gives us the ABILITY to follow the Moral Law because we now have the
Holy Spirit dwelling in us. In the O.T. the Holy Spirit did not dwell in persons...at least not that I could see/understand.

This is what Jesus means in John 15:5 Apart from Jesus we can do nothing.

So, the question is: Are we required to follow the Moral Law?
Are we helped to keep it to the best of our ability?
Or, to you, would this mean we're still under the law?

(some say they never sin...this is unbiblical).

We are required to love God as He loves us. He said whosever believes will have eternal life. I would not want to blow people away telling them all the laws they need to keep to be (or continue to be) a believer. Once He comes in, He works on all that.

I posted this previously

"Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you,.... Some understand this of faith, which this apostle calls a commandment, 1 John 3:23; but it rather intends the commandment of love, especially to the brethren, of which the apostle says the same things as here in his second epistle, 1 John 2:5; and this sense agrees both with what goes before and follows after, and is a considerable branch of the commandments of Christ to be kept, and of walking as he walked; and the word "brethren", prefixed to this account, may direct to, and strengthen this sense, though the Vulgate Latin and Syriac versions read, "beloved"; and so the Alexandrian copy, and others: and this commandment is said to be not a new one,

-The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning; or this ancient law of love is contained in, and enforced by that word or doctrine which was delivered from the beginning of time; and which these saints had heard of, concerning the seed of the woman's bruising the serpent's head, which includes the work of redemption and salvation by Christ, atonement by his sacrifice, forgiveness of sin through his blood, and justification by his righteousness, than which nothing can more powerfully engage to love God, and Christ, and one another; and which is also strongly encouraged by the word of God and Gospel of Christ, which they had heard, and had a spiritual and saving knowledge of, from the time they were effectually called by the grace of God:

Again, a new commandment I write unto you,.... Which is the same with the former, considered in different respects. The command of brotherly love is a new one; that is, it is an excellent one, as a new name is an excellent name, and a new song is an excellent one; it is renewed by Christ under the Gospel dispensation; it is newly explained by him, and purged from the false glosses of the Scribes and Pharisees; see Matthew 5:43; and enforced by him with a new argument, and by a new example of his own, even his own love to his people; and which is observed by them in a new manner, they being made new creatures; and this law being anew written in their hearts, under the renewing work of the Spirit of God, as a branch of the new covenant of grace; see John 13:34. The Jews c expect תורה חדשה, "a new law" to be given them by the bands of the Messiah; and a new one he has given, even the new commandment of love, and which is the fulfilling of the law."

1 John 2 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Also this
"And so here: the token, that we have the knowledge of Him, is present, if , posito that) we keep (pres., as a habit, from time to time, ἐντολαί being necessarily prescriptions regarding circumstances as they arise) His commandments (first as to the expression. St. John never uses the word νόμος for the rule of Christian obedience: this word is reserved for the Mosaic law, John 1:17 ; John 1:46 , and in all, fifteen times in the Gospel: but almost always ἐντολαί , sometimes λόγος θεοῦ or χριστοῦ , John 8:51 f., John 14:23 f., John 17:6 , our 1 John 2:5 . And as a verb he always uses τηρεῖν , very seldom ποιεῖν (only in the two controverted places, ch. 1 John 5:4 , Rev 22:14 v. r.: ch. 1Jn 1:6 , 1Jn 2:17 are not cases in point). τηρεῖν keeps its peculiar meaning of watching , guarding as some precious thing, “observing to keep.” Next, whose commandments? The older expositors for the most part refer αὐτόν , αὐτοῦ , αὐτῷ , 1 John 2:3-6 , to Christ: so Aug [15] , Episcop., Grot., Luther, Seb.-Schmidt, Calov., Wolf, Lange, Bengel, Sander, Neander. Socinus inclines to this view, but doubtfully; Erasmus understands αὐτός 1 John 2:3-4 , of God, αὐτός and ἐκεῖνος 1 John 2:5-6 , of Christ."
1 John 2 - Alford's Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

 

[GodsGrace]

We are required to love God as He loves us. He said whosever believes will have eternal life. I would not want to blow people away telling them all the laws they need to keep to be (or continue to be) a believer. Once He comes in, He works on all that.

I posted this previously

"Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you,.... Some understand this of faith, which this apostle calls a commandment, 1 John 3:23; but it rather intends the commandment of love, especially to the brethren, of which the apostle says the same things as here in his second epistle, 1 John 2:5; and this sense agrees both with what goes before and follows after, and is a considerable branch of the commandments of Christ to be kept, and of walking as he walked; and the word "brethren", prefixed to this account, may direct to, and strengthen this sense, though the Vulgate Latin and Syriac versions read, "beloved"; and so the Alexandrian copy, and others: and this commandment is said to be not a new one,

-The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning; or this ancient law of love is contained in, and enforced by that word or doctrine which was delivered from the beginning of time; and which these saints had heard of, concerning the seed of the woman's bruising the serpent's head, which includes the work of redemption and salvation by Christ, atonement by his sacrifice, forgiveness of sin through his blood, and justification by his righteousness, than which nothing can more powerfully engage to love God, and Christ, and one another; and which is also strongly encouraged by the word of God and Gospel of Christ, which they had heard, and had a spiritual and saving knowledge of, from the time they were effectually called by the grace of God:

Again, a new commandment I write unto you,.... Which is the same with the former, considered in different respects. The command of brotherly love is a new one; that is, it is an excellent one, as a new name is an excellent name, and a new song is an excellent one; it is renewed by Christ under the Gospel dispensation; it is newly explained by him, and purged from the false glosses of the Scribes and Pharisees; see Matthew 5:43; and enforced by him with a new argument, and by a new example of his own, even his own love to his people; and which is observed by them in a new manner, they being made new creatures; and this law being anew written in their hearts, under the renewing work of the Spirit of God, as a branch of the new covenant of grace; see John 13:34. The Jews c expect תורה חדשה, "a new law" to be given them by the bands of the Messiah; and a new one he has given, even the new commandment of love, and which is the fulfilling of the law."

1 John 2 - Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Also this
"And so here: the token, that we have the knowledge of Him, is present, if , posito that) we keep (pres., as a habit, from time to time, ἐντολαί being necessarily prescriptions regarding circumstances as they arise) His commandments (first as to the expression. St. John never uses the word νόμος for the rule of Christian obedience: this word is reserved for the Mosaic law, John 1:17 ; John 1:46 , and in all, fifteen times in the Gospel: but almost always ἐντολαί , sometimes λόγος θεοῦ or χριστοῦ , John 8:51 f., John 14:23 f., John 17:6 , our 1 John 2:5 . And as a verb he always uses τηρεῖν , very seldom ποιεῖν (only in the two controverted places, ch. 1 John 5:4 , Rev 22:14 v. r.: ch. 1Jn 1:6 , 1Jn 2:17 are not cases in point). τηρεῖν keeps its peculiar meaning of watching , guarding as some precious thing, “observing to keep.” Next, whose commandments? The older expositors for the most part refer αὐτόν , αὐτοῦ , αὐτῷ , 1 John 2:3-6 , to Christ: so Aug [15] , Episcop., Grot., Luther, Seb.-Schmidt, Calov., Wolf, Lange, Bengel, Sander, Neander. Socinus inclines to this view, but doubtfully; Erasmus understands αὐτός 1 John 2:3-4 , of God, αὐτός and ἐκεῖνος 1 John 2:5-6 , of Christ."
1 John 2 - Alford's Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

YES! I agree we are to keep the Commandments of Christ...which I did post.
NO! We are not to discuss LAWS with new Christians or old Christians...
If they love God they will keep all the laws (as best they could).

But, yeah, that word REQUIRE to obey the commandments - or Law of Christ,
does make some of us sweat !

But we'll let it go at that.
I could post John 3:36 and other such verses, but I think you obey and love our Lord.
Love covers a multitude of sin...

God bless you dad...
and thanks for taking the time to talk this out.

 

[Enoch111]

I linked it because all 3 state that observing the Sabbath is ceremonial and not moral.

So why don't you ask yourself some HARD QUESTIONS about that mischaracterization?

1. Is ANYTHING in the Ten Commandments "ceremonial"? Absolutely not.
2. Is ceasing from ordinary daily labor "ceremonial"? Absolutely not.
3. Is worship "ceremonial"? Absolutely not.
4. Is reading from Scripture on the Sabbath "ceremonial"? Absolutely not.
5. Is expounding from Scripture "ceremonial"? Absolutely not.
6. Is healing and doing good works on the Sabbath "ceremonial"? Absolutely not.

Now let us go to the Gospels (Luke 4) and see what Jesus did on one Sabbath day:
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Jesus also deliberately chose to heal on Sabbath days, in order to establish the truth that good works on Sabbath days were approved by God. But did you see anything "ceremonial" in the above passage, or was it not a part of Jewish worship to be in the synagogue on Sabbath days and read from Scripture and also expound it?

 

[dad]

But, yeah, that word REQUIRE to obey the commandments - or Law of Christ,
does make some of us sweat !

Maybe a compromise position would be to say we are required to try to obey laws. We are not required to pretend we succeeded.