The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[OzSpen]

ALL of the 10 Commandments, which include the 4th, Oz, are still part of a balanced lifestyle for True Christians to this very day.

Jump back to the OP, post #1, and start reading through the thread again. We always pick up more the second time around. Maybe try a third read.

Binding, under Law and so on and so forth are all scary words to make Christians afraid of obeying God's Word. They are unnecessary for describing the 10 Commandments. Only for speaking of the Mosaic Ceremonial and Sacrificial Laws.

GEN,

I live under the New Covenant. There is NOT A WORD in the NT that says to worship on the Sabbath for "a balanced lifestyle for true Christians." I'm not a SDA member and your attempts to convert me have failed.

Bye,
Oz

 

[GEN2REV]

GEN,

I live under the New Covenant. There is NOT A WORD in the NT that says to worship on the Sabbath for "a balanced lifestyle for true Christians." I'm not a SDA member and your attempts to convert me have failed.

Bye,
Oz

Neither am I. High Five!

Don't act like I'm coming at you trying to push my beliefs on you. You came to this thread that is clearly all about the continued significance of the 10 Commandments. Nobody forced you to be here, or comment here. I've made no effort to convert anybody.

The Sabbath is mentioned 59 times in the NT. There are also countless verses of relevance to the ongoing validity of the 10 Commandments therein as well.

God's Word is what it is. Like it or not.

 

[Jim B]

Neither am I. High Five!

Don't act like I'm coming at you trying to push my beliefs on you. You came to this thread that is clearly all about the continued significance of the 10 Commandments. Nobody forced you to be here, or comment here. I've made no effort to convert anybody.

The Sabbath is mentioned 59 times in the NT. There are also countless verses of relevance to the ongoing validity of the 10 Commandments therein as well.

God's Word is what it is. Like it or not.

God's Word is who He is. Like it or not.

Christians are dead to the law: So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4 And it's in context. Romans and Galatians are filled with doctrine that clearly states that we are not under the law.

Galatians 3:1-3, "You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort?"

The 10 Commandments are external laws, but Christians are internally guided by the Holy Spirit. You can't mix the two.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

If you don't agree with what I teach, it may be you need to look again at what YOU believe.

"Believe what i say" is not a scriptural counterargument. As God said in Deuteronomy, i'm supposed to listen to His voice and only that voice.

The things i believe comes from what God teaches in the Bible, whether anyone can accept His words or not. I disagree with the things you teach because they're not supported by the writings God inspired. The question you need to ask yourself is why are you disagreeing with God and those writings He inspired, not why am i disagreeing with your doctrines.

God commands His people to prove all things and test everything that they're being told(1 Thess. 5:21, Acts 17:10-11, 1 Jhn 4:1), not just assume someone's doctrines are true because they sound plausible. The idea that Jesus had any authority whatsoever to render His Father's commandments null and void is as preposterous as it is unbiblical.

God's Word is who He is. Like it or not.

Christians are dead to the law: So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4 And it's in context. Romans and Galatians are filled with doctrine that clearly states that we are not under the law.

Galatians 3:1-3, "You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort?"

The 10 Commandments are external laws, but Christians are internally guided by the Holy Spirit. You can't mix the two.

Your whole argument falls flat on its face for one simple reason: you claim that God's commandments are external laws, and yet Paul clearly teaches in Rom. 7:14 that they are spiritual. It makes absolutely no sense to claim that Paul taught against commandment-keeping when he himself stated that he lived by them:

"For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man." - Rom. 7:22

According to the warped logic of the antinomian, Paul can't be categorized as anything but a hypocrite and a false teacher. You are speaking about things you clearly don't understand, because the Bible says God's Spirit is given to people who obey Him:

“And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” - Acts 5:32

The core problem with antinomian deceivers is that they try to reduce biblical faith to being an intellectual exercise. A person who truly walks in the Spirit obeys God's commandments, hence all of Paul's teachings on the subject. Antinomians cannot logically explain why the OT saints had God's Spirit and were still required to keep His commandments because they don't understand the first thing about biblical law or grace.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"Believe what i say" is not a scriptural counterargument. As God said in Deuteronomy, i'm supposed to listen to His voice and only that voice.

The things i believe comes from what God teaches in the Bible, whether anyone can accept His words or not. I disagree with the things you teach because they're not supported by the writings God inspired. The question you need to ask yourself is why are you disagreeing with God and those writings He inspired, not why am i disagreeing with your doctrines.

God commands His people to prove all things and test everything that they're being told(1 Thess. 5:21, Acts 17:10-11, 1 Jhn 4:1), not just assume someone's doctrines are true because they sound plausible. The idea that Jesus had any authority whatsoever to render His Father's commandments null and void is as preposterous as it is unbiblical.
Your whole argument falls flat on its face for one simple reason: you claim that God's commandments are external laws, and yet Paul clearly teaches in Rom. 7:14 that they are spiritual. It makes absolutely no sense to claim that Paul taught against commandment-keeping when he himself stated that he lived by them:

"For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man." - Rom. 7:22

According to the warped logic of the antinomian, Paul can't be categorized as anything but a hypocrite and a false teacher. You are speaking about things you clearly don't understand, because the Bible says God's Spirit is given to people who obey Him:

“And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” - Acts 5:32

The core problem with antinomian deceivers is that they try to reduce biblical faith to being an intellectual exercise. A person who truly walks in the Spirit obeys God's commandments, hence all of Paul's teachings on the subject. Antinomians cannot logically explain why the OT saints had God's Spirit and were still required to keep His commandments because they don't understand the first thing about biblical law or grace.

This is what I wrote that you said I was uneducated, even though you are now quoting Romans 7:22 about those under the LAW, and not under the SPIRIT. In other words, Romans 7:22 are for those BEFORE Christ, and you dare to say I'm uneducated???

"sinners are judged according to the Ten Commandments? It is only those who do not sin by the power of God's grace who are NOT UNDER THE LAW. We are under a deeper law written on our hearts."

Galatians 5:
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

[Cassandra]

We are under a deeper law written on our hearts."

that is exactly where God said He would write His Laws-- but I don't understand how you can have law . If you don't sin, why do you need it?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

that is exactly where God said He would write His Laws-- but I don't understand how you can have law . If you don't sin, why do you need it?

We don't need written laws engraved on stone. Those were to guard us because of our sin nature - the old man. Our sin nature was in opposition to the laws of God. Our old man was crucified with Christ.

We are resurrected with Christ with His moral laws written on our heart, our new nature is no longer in opposition to the laws of God, but inline with God's righteousness. Romans 6:6-7; Romans 8:1-9

However, we must also reckon ourselves dead to sin, or we could easily resurrect the old nature and come under bondage once again. Romans 6:15-16. That is called quenching the Spirit.

 

[GEN2REV]

God's Word is who He is. Like it or not.

Christians are dead to the law: So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4 And it's in context. Romans and Galatians are filled with doctrine that clearly states that we are not under the law.

Galatians 3:1-3, "You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort?"

The 10 Commandments are external laws, but Christians are internally guided by the Holy Spirit. You can't mix the two.

Nope. I'm sorry that you're mistaken.

The Bible clears up everything you stated very clearly.

You are only under law if you are living in sin. Sin is the breaking of the 10 Commandments per 1 John 3:4.

And your verse about the Spirit is exactly correct. The Spirit assists us to obey the Commandments just as Jesus did His entire life while that very Spirit was within Him. And because the Spirit of Christ is doing the work, it is not by "human effort", nor is it works salvation.

The 10 Commandments are internal laws. Written on the heart. Remember?
Jeremiah 31:33
Hebrews 8:10

Also the book of the law, the Mosaic Ceremonial/Sacrificial Ordinances were placed on the side of the Ark. Deuteronomy 31:26. They were outside of us and contrary to us.

While the 10 Commandments were placed inside the Ark Exodus 25:16. They are good and perfect; nourishing to the soul.
Romans 7:12
Psalms 19:7

Remember, the Ark is a symbol of our bodies carrying God's Truth throughout this fallen world. The Ark of Noah carried 8 souls of righteousness to safety throughout the flood. Seeds of Truth to keep God's Word alive upon the earth.

The Laws of Ordinances are the external laws.
Ephesians 2:15
They were the carnal (fleshly, external) commandments.
Hebrews 7:16
They were the ones that were blotted out and nailed to the cross.
Colossians 2:14
They were only valid and useful until the time of reformation (Jesus' coming and Crucifixion).
Hebrews 9:10

The 10 Commandments are Forever.

 

[Jim B]

"Believe what i say" is not a scriptural counterargument. As God said in Deuteronomy, i'm supposed to listen to His voice and only that voice.

The things i believe comes from what God teaches in the Bible, whether anyone can accept His words or not. I disagree with the things you teach because they're not supported by the writings God inspired. The question you need to ask yourself is why are you disagreeing with God and those writings He inspired, not why am i disagreeing with your doctrines.

God commands His people to prove all things and test everything that they're being told(1 Thess. 5:21, Acts 17:10-11, 1 Jhn 4:1), not just assume someone's doctrines are true because they sound plausible. The idea that Jesus had any authority whatsoever to render His Father's commandments null and void is as preposterous as it is unbiblical.
Your whole argument falls flat on its face for one simple reason: you claim that God's commandments are external laws, and yet Paul clearly teaches in Rom. 7:14 that they are spiritual. It makes absolutely no sense to claim that Paul taught against commandment-keeping when he himself stated that he lived by them:

"For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man." - Rom. 7:22

According to the warped logic of the antinomian, Paul can't be categorized as anything but a hypocrite and a false teacher. You are speaking about things you clearly don't understand, because the Bible says God's Spirit is given to people who obey Him:

“And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” - Acts 5:32

The core problem with antinomian deceivers is that they try to reduce biblical faith to being an intellectual exercise. A person who truly walks in the Spirit obeys God's commandments, hence all of Paul's teachings on the subject. Antinomians cannot logically explain why the OT saints had God's Spirit and were still required to keep His commandments because they don't understand the first thing about biblical law or grace.

I believe what Paul clearly says in Romans 7:9-10, "Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death." You are speaking about things you clearly don't understand.

Romans 8:1-4 states the truth: Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

The rest of your post is irrelevant.

 

[OzSpen]

Neither am I. High Five!

Don't act like I'm coming at you trying to push my beliefs on you. You came to this thread that is clearly all about the continued significance of the 10 Commandments. Nobody forced you to be here, or comment here. I've made no effort to convert anybody.

The Sabbath is mentioned 59 times in the NT. There are also countless verses of relevance to the ongoing validity of the 10 Commandments therein as well.

God's Word is what it is. Like it or not.

GEN,

Where does the NT state that Christians must worship on the Sabbath?

Oz

 

[GRACE ambassador]

God's Word is what it is. Like it or not.

I like IT!: "Fulfill ALL the law in 'ONE WORD: LOVE' thy neighbor as thyself!"

(Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10)​

Where does the NT state that Christians must worship on the Sabbath?

Not found, But, God Did Reveal To Paul, our apostle:
Romans 14:5-12 & Colossians 2:16, eh?

GRACE And Peace...

 

[GEN2REV]

GEN,

Where does the NT state that Christians must worship on the Sabbath?

Oz

There is no need to re-state Commandments that were never repealed.

Jesus and all His disciples, and all His faithful followers, observed it.

If you don't choose to obey God, and live as Jesus lived, that's fine. The Bible tells us that we are gifted with the desire, and ability, to obey all the Commandments. If you do not have any desire at all to please God in every way that you possibly can, nobody can make you desire that.

If the Commandments have not been written on your heart, nobody can make you obey them. You are free to do as you please.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you
free from the law of sin and death.

Amen! Kinda Difficult to be "FREE From the law of sin and death"/
/Redeemed From 'the Curse' By The Precious BLOOD (righteous saints),
(Galatians 3:13; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14)

And ALSO:

"Under THE CURSE of the law" (UNrighteous sinners), At THE SAME time, eh?
(1 Timothy 1:8-10; Galatians 3:10)

Of course, those critics who have "More Power" Than God, Can Certainly
DENY All 144 Of These Plain And Clear Scriptures, IF they wish, Correct?:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-Born babes In CHRIST!
+
God's ETERNAL Assurance!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[OzSpen]

There is no need to re-state Commandments that were never repealed.

Jesus and all His disciples, and all His faithful followers, observed it.

If you don't choose to obey God, and live as Jesus lived, that's fine. The Bible tells us that we are gifted with the desire, and ability, to obey all the Commandments. If you do not have any desire at all to please God in every way that you possibly can, nobody can make you desire that.

If the Commandments have not been written on your heart, nobody can make you obey them. You are free to do as you please.

GEN,

You are not consistent in your knowledge of the Commandments. You want me to keep the Sabbath but you say nothing about stoning adulterers and homosexuals to death. You commit the law of contradiction.

Oz

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus' Commandments are God's 10 Commandments

Jesus is God per John 1:1 & John 1:14.

The following 2 verses are saying the same thing in two different ways. They are separated by one verse where Jesus' disciple asks how it is possible.

"He that hath My (Jesus') Commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and "I" will love him, and will manifest (reveal) Myself to him."

Now compare the details of the following verse where Jesus reiterates what He just said at the request of His disciple.

"If a man loveth Me, he will keep My Words (Commandments): and My Father will love him, and 'WE' will come unto him, and make our abode (home) with him."
John 14:21-23

(Jesus and the Father are the Holy Spirit. The 10 Commandments are the Commandments of the Holy Spirit.)

Jesus further explains that His Commandments cannot be any different than His Father's 10 Commandments.

"He that loveth Me not, keepeth not My sayings (Commandments): and the word (Commandments) which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent me."
John 14:24

Again, ...

"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? the words (Commandments) that I speak unto you, I speak not of (from) Myself: but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He (is the one speaking them)."
John 14:10

And again, ...

"For I have not spoken of (from) Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me (His Commandments) ..."
John 12:49

And again, ...

"... (know) ye not that I must be about My Father's business?"
Luke 2:49

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

This is what I wrote that you said I was uneducated, even though you are now quoting Romans 7:22 about those under the LAW, and not under the SPIRIT. In other words, Romans 7:22 are for those BEFORE Christ, and you dare to say I'm uneducated???

"sinners are judged according to the Ten Commandments? It is only those who do not sin by the power of God's grace who are NOT UNDER THE LAW. We are under a deeper law written on our hearts."

Galatians 5:
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

You are further proving that you are indeed uneducated. Being "under the law" means facing the death penalty for violating God's commandments. The antinomian attitude is one of "i'm above the law", or simply put, "the law doesn't apply to me". And yet, Paul's own letters prove that no human being was ever above the law of God, even His own Son.

The fact that Christians need Jesus' sacrifice to blot out their sins inherently means they are supposed to live by God's commandments, seeing as though without that sacrifice atoning for their sins, they would face condemnation. It is truly mind-boggling why antinomians refuse to understand such a simple concept.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are further proving that you are indeed uneducated. Being "under the law" means facing the death penalty for violating God's commandments. The antinomian attitude is one of "i'm above the law", or simply put, "the law doesn't apply to me". And yet, Paul's own letters prove that no human being was ever above the law of God, even His own Son.

The fact that Christians need Jesus' sacrifice to blot out their sins inherently means they are supposed to live by God's commandments, seeing as though without that sacrifice atoning for their sins, they would face condemnation. It is truly mind-boggling why antinomians refuse to understand such a simple concept.

I'm not under the Law of Moses, but under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2 which makes me free from sin.

Do you know what Romans 8:1-9 means?

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, whoa do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[GEN2REV]

I'm not under the Law of Moses, but under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2 which makes me free from sin.

The Law of the 10 Commandments IS Spiritual.

"For we know that the Law is spiritual: ..."
Romans 7:14

It is a perfect Law, thus, it cannot, and would have no reason to, be done away with.

"The Law of the Lord is perfect (without any flaw whatsoever), converting the soul: ..."
Psalms 19:7

Do you know what Romans 8:1-9 means?

Do you know what it means?

None of that entire passage contradicts the Spiritual Law of the 10 Commandments that are written on our Spiritual Hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33
Hebrews 10:16

Do you know how it is written on our hearts?

When we receive the Holy Spirit, who observed every Commandment, because they were written on His heart.

They are His Commandments.

You are not under law when you do something out of the love of your heart.

John 14:15

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

I'm not under the Law of Moses, but under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Romans 8:2 which makes me free from sin.

Do you know what Romans 8:1-9 means?

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, whoa do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

You still can't tell the difference between the Decalogue and the law of Moses, so it's a lot more likely that it is you who doesn't understand what Rom. 8:1-9 says.

It is true that there is no condemnation for anyone who abides in Christ, but Christ Himself stated throughout Jhn 14-15 that the people who abide in Him are the ones who keep His Father's commandments. And since antinomians reject His Father's commandments, they do not abide in Christ. Therefore, the promise in Rom. 8:1 does not and cannot logically apply to antinomians.

As any logical person can see, Rom. 8:1-9 destroys antinomian falsehoods about 3-5 different ways when they actually read the Bible honestly and understand Paul's theology. One of the more obvious ways is in verse 7 when Paul talks about how carnal minds are hostile towards God's commandments. That verse alone destroys the extremely weak "argument" you're trying to make because Paul says the carnal mind's hostility towards God's commandments is the problem, not the commandments themselves.

In chapter 7 of the same book, Paul said the commandments are holy, just, and good. Therefore, all attempts at characterizing them as being a problem comes from a mind that is looking for a way to justify its hostility towards God's authority, as Paul succinctly summed up in Rom. 8:7.

 

[Pearl]

I expect somebody has already said this but I've only just seen the thread and as it's so long I didn't read from the start. This is what Jesus said so in obeying Him we keep all of them. Love God and love people.

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”