The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Ferris Bueller]

You do realize your statement makes ZERO sense?

The weekly sabbath day is and always will be the 7th day of the week, not the 1st. There is absolutely no reason why a Jew, born and raised and utterly steeped in the Law, would need to, or want to stop observing the 7th day sabbath when they get saved. For there's no reason why a genuinely saved Jew, or gentile for that matter, can't see Christ in and celebrate him in the 7th day sabbath observance. I would expect nothing less from a Jew. Don't try to steer a Jew from the law they have known from birth. Instead, show them Christ in the festival cycle of the law, for they are the type and illustration of Jesus through which to see and understand his life and ministry and purpose. As several people have told me, you can't out worship a saved Jew who celebrates Jesus in the festival cycle. The natural branches flourish best in their own tree. You have to understand the Catholic corruptions to Christianity are a gentile invention, not a Jewish one. We're the ones under that spell, not the Jews.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yeah, that's interesting. Look at how God is speaking of the specific 'Day' of the Sabbath here.

"... the Sabbath ... My Holy 'Day'; "
Isaiah 58:13

It's easy to see that there's no symbolism intended by God and that He is undoubtedly speaking of the 7th Day Saturday Sabbath because He mentions not to do your own ways or find your own pleasure or speak your own words on that day. No reference to a rest in Christ or anything like that.

Yes, God is amazing.

The prophet is talking about keeping the sabbath (which obviously is to be kept at this time under the law) according to elements of rest that the sabbath of the Ten Commandments does not stipulate. He's making reference to a sabbath rest above and beyond and more important than the literal observance in the 10 Commandments. In fact, it is so much more important that God says to not bring the Mosaic sabbath observance into his presence without first fulfilling the obligations of the real rest he's interested in, the one the literal observance only points to - our rest from how we mistreat and neglect one another.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And yet, funny enough, as soon as He finished that work, His disciples immediately continued to keep the Sabbath. As well as His later followers and all Christians for about 300 years thereafter.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

I have no problem with this. Hopefully, by now you've noticed my argument concerning sabbath observance varies from what you're used to hearing. 7th day sabbath observance is only forbidden for a person if they are doing for the purpose of becoming righteous in God's sight. Other than that Christians are free to celebrate Christ in the type and shadow of the weekly sabbath and all the other appointed festivals of the law. Just as long as they don't do that in order to become righteous in God's sight. But we all pretty much understand and agree on that point. It is the Catholics that taught that any and all law keeping was sinful. And the stain of that horribly misguided doctrine can be seen even in the Protestant churches.

 

[Marymog]

The weekly sabbath day is and always will be the 7th day of the week, not the 1st.

That is what your men from the 16th century have taught you Ferris. Your Christian forefathers disagree:

The Didache
“But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas
“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

The Didascalia
“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven” (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen
“Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection” (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Victorinus
“The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished” (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

AND you didn't answer my question: You do realize your statement makes ZERO sense?

 

[mailmandan]

I'm sure he did. His perfect obedience to the law is the foundation of the righteousness that is legally imputed to us. Besides, he had not accomplished his work on the cross yet that fulfills God's requirement for sabbath rest for us that there could be any suggestion possible that Jesus did not have to keep it.

Of course Jesus kept the sabbath day. He was born under the law. (Galatians 4:4)

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes, my money is ready......

FYI....Historically I know there was some debate in the early Church if they should continue the sabbath practice or keep the Lords day (Revelations 1:10) which was Sunday. Some stuck to their Jewish roots...others didn't. The authority of The Church brought everyone together to practice on the same day.

Here is the historical evidence from your Christian history on what your Christian forefathers wrote about this matter:

The Didache
“But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas
“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

The Didascalia
“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven” (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen
“Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection” (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Victorinus
“The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished” (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

That was all a waste of your time after you'd already admitted that NT Christians did indeed observe the Sabbath.

Your claim:

I will practice what the NT Christians practiced. Will you?

Do you really expect anybody, with the ability to think for themselves, to believe that those closest to Jesus Christ were confused about what they were supposed to do after His death?

Luke 23:54-56

That is woefully inept.

 

[BarneyFife]

I have no problem with this. Hopefully, by now you've noticed my argument concerning sabbath observance varies from what you're used to hearing. 7th day sabbath observance is only forbidden for a person if they are doing for the purpose of becoming righteous in God's sight. Other than that Christians are free to celebrate Christ in the type and shadow of the weekly sabbath and all the other appointed festivals of the law. Just as long as they don't do that in order to become righteous in God's sight. But we all pretty much understand and agree on that point. It is the Catholics that taught that any and all law keeping was sinful. And the stain of that horribly misguided doctrine can be seen even in the Protestant churches.

The weekly Sabbath is not a type or shadow--it is a memorial of creation. Says so right in the language of the commandment, you leg-puller, you.

 

[GEN2REV]

The prophet is talking about keeping the sabbath (which obviously is to be kept at this time under the law) according to elements of rest that the sabbath of the Ten Commandments does not stipulate. He's making reference to a sabbath rest above and beyond and more important than the literal observance in the 10 Commandments. In fact, it is so much more important that God says to not bring the Mosaic sabbath observance into his presence without first fulfilling the obligations of the real rest he's interested in, the one the literal observance only points to - our rest from how we mistreat and neglect one another.

You don't even realize God Himself speaks through prophets, do you?

You see the Bible as a collection of stories written by men who zealously hoped they might please a God that they hoped exists.

Your lack of real understanding of scripture is a direct result of faith that is a mile wide and an inch deep.

Always learning but never coming to any real understanding of God Almighty.
2 Timothy 3:7

 

[GEN2REV]

Of course Jesus kept the sabbath day. He was born under the law. (Galatians 4:4)

Are we to live as Jesus lived?
1 John 2:6

 

[Brakelite]

That is strong as iron. Not a straw man.

It becomes a straw man when applied to those who don't warrant it.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The weekly Sabbath is not a type or shadow--it is a memorial of creation. Says so right in the language of the commandment, you leg-puller, you.

Well, the way I read it, I would say it is more about the Creator, than the week. So there! We are doing it again. You point out the day in that week, I emphasize the Creator of the week.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

John also acknowledges Jesus as the Creator and refers to creation week, but the week is not emphasized, the Creator was.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Edit: This is strange. I got an alert that you quoted me and it came to this post of yours. I didn't notice that you were actually quoting Ferris. Strange.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well, the way I read it, I would say it is more about the Creator, than the week. So there! We are doing it again. You point out the day in that week, I emphasize the Creator of the week.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

John also acknowledges Jesus as the Creator and refers to creation week, but the week is not emphasized, the Creator was.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Edit: This is strange. I got an alert that you quoted me and it came to this post of yours. I didn't notice that you were actually quoting Ferris. Strange.

You rolled your eyes at me!

When I learned the ten commandments as a child in Sunday School, they were shortened so as to make them easier for little ones to learn. I distinctly remember memorizing "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." The reason for rembering to keep the Sabbath, though certainly important enough to be stipulated within the body of the commandment, is secondary to the act required to obey it. This progression of ideas is quite naturally expressed, with a period punctuation actually provided after the initial clause, in nearly every English translation. In my mind, there can be no doubt that, at the very least, when given at Sinai, the part that was most important was the breaking of which would get a body killed--the keeping of the day.

 

[BarneyFife]

This is strange. I got an alert that you quoted me and it came to this post of yours. I didn't notice that you were actually quoting Ferris. Strange.

That was an accident--my fault.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You don't even realize God Himself speaks through prophets, do you?

↓↓↓

...then God, speaking through the prophet...

You see the Bible as a collection of stories written by men who zealously hoped they might please a God that they hoped exists.

"For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:21​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The weekly Sabbath is not a type or shadow--it is a memorial of creation. Says so right in the language of the commandment, you leg-puller, you.

Yes, and I also see it in scripture as a memorial of God's rest from sin established in the death of Christ Jesus from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). And a shadow of our eternal rest from our enemy in the coming age (Hebrews 4:8-11).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is what your men from the 16th century have taught you Ferris. Your Christian forefathers disagree:

The Didache
“But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas
“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

The Didascalia
“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven” (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen
“Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection” (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Victorinus
“The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished” (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).

AND you didn't answer my question: You do realize your statement makes ZERO sense?

The 7th day will always be sabbath day.
And right or wrong, the establishment of the 1st/8th day as a day of recognition of Christ's resurrection is an addition to the sabbath day observance, not a change to or replacement for it.

(And, yes, I did answer your question.)

 

[mailmandan]

Are we to live as Jesus lived?
1 John 2:6

By loving one another as He has loved us, yes. (John 13:34; 1 John 4:7-17) By remaining under the old covenant of law, no. (Romans 6:14; 10:4)

Using your logic, are we to keep Kosher laws, Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah and worship in the temple? Jesus kept Kosher laws, He kept the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. Are we to follow everything Jesus did under the law? Galatians 4:4-5 says that Jesus lived under the law to redeem us from the law. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

 

[Marymog]

The 7th day will always be sabbath day.

(And, yes, I did answer your question.)

I agree. It will always be sabbath day for the Jews.

I asked you if you realize your statement makes ZERO sense. The answer to that question would be a YES or a NO. I can not find either of those words in your response. So, the truth is, you didn't answer my question. You bloviated instead.

 

[Marymog]

That was all a waste of your time after you'd already admitted that NT Christians did indeed observe the Sabbath.

Hey GEN2REV.....You are right. It was a waste of my time. I assumed that you knew your Christian history and that the NT Christians practiced both the sabbath for the Lords Day and Sunday. So, to clarify, the NT Christians practiced BOTH which means that I and 99.9% of Christians do practice what the NT Christians practiced; Sunday worship. Did you not know that they practiced both? I shouldn't have assumed you did know that.

Mary

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I asked you if you realize your statement makes ZERO sense. The answer to that question would be a YES or a NO. I can not find either of those words in your response. So, the truth is, you didn't answer my question. You bloviated instead.

I more than provided the sense that you think my posts lacked.