The 144,000 before God at the end.

[ewq1938]

How so?

Well to start, inheriting something is vastly different than entering. It also is speaking of the future kingdom of God, not the current heaven.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Well to start, inheriting something is vastly different than entering. It also is speaking of the future kingdom of God, not the current heaven.

Not so. The Greek makes this very clear.

 

[ewq1938]

Not so. The Greek makes this very clear.

It makes it clear alright, proving what I have said.

G2816
κληρονομέω
klēronomeō
klay-ron-om-eh'-o
From G2818; to be an heir to (literally or figuratively): - be heir, (obtain by) inherit (-ance).
Total KJV occurrences: 18


Flesh and blood can ENTER heaven (current) but it cannot INHERIT the kingdom (future). Elijah was taken to heaven and Paul spoke of someone possibly going there physically. It is possible and has happened.

 

[rebuilder 454]

If paradise is heaven, we know that there is no flesh and blood in heaven, therefore how can there be literal horses?

Jesus has flesh and is in heaven

 

[rebuilder 454]

Noah... left the ground... floated above the ground actually, in this wooden structure he built that nowadays we commonly call a boat. He was kept on/in the boat by this really weird natural phenomenon that, since the days of Isaac Newton, we call gravity.

Hey, question for you. Rhetorical, really... But in April of 1912, when the passengers of the Titanic "left the earth"... ... did God, like, drop them, and that's really why most of them died?


You're... not the Bible.

This is actually kind of fun...

Grace and peace to you.

Amazing, the silly twist and turns you need to somehow cover yourself from being wrong about noah ascending above mountains.

We all have been wrong.
You got owned.
Too much pride to admit it.

 

[rwb]

Dan 9:24
(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The problem is when most people read, "determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city," they automatically believe God is talking about the Jews, the nation Israel and the physical city of Jersualem. I am sorry but this is not who God was talking about at all.

TS, I understand and agree with how you spiritually interpret these prophetic words of Daniel. I don't understand why you cannot acknowledge "thy people" of Daniel's prophecy is not limited only to people of faith. For the prophecy to make sense it must be understood as having dual prophecy to ALL of Daniel's people, both ethnically and spiritually. Not only the faithful throughout the New Covenant age of grace, but also the people of Daniel's ethnic heritage.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Jesus has flesh and is in heaven

Don’t be silly.

 

[Truthnightmare]

It m,akes it clear alright, proving what I have said.

G2816
κληρονομέω
klēronomeō
klay-ron-om-eh'-o
From G2818; to be an heir to (literally or figuratively): - be heir, (obtain by) inherit (-ance).
Total KJV occurrences: 18


Flesh and blood can ENTER heaven (current) but it cannot INHERIT the kingdom (future). Elijah was taken to heaven and Paul spoke of someone possibly going there physically. It is possible and has happened.

Do you know how to utilize the Greek? It would seem not.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [a]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are given an inheritance through Christ, which is reserved in heaven. But you cannot receive this inheritance while one is in the flesh.

Paul said…
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Absent from the body…

You have proven my point very nicely, thank you.

 

[Timtofly]

I’m still reading this thread, but scripture indicates paradise is a part of Heaven.

So is the sea of glass. Revelation 4:6

"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind."

 

[Timtofly]

If paradise is heaven, we know that there is no flesh and blood in heaven, therefore how can there be literal horses?

Paradise is not heaven. Paradise is in heaven. So is the sea of glass. They don't seem to be the same location.

Jesus has flesh, and Jesus has blood. Are you saying that Jesus cannot be allowed into heaven?

We literally don't know much about heaven at all. We certainly should not say there is no flesh and blood there. There is no sin in heaven. There is no death in heaven.

How can there be literal flesh and blood on earth? The answer is simple. There is no separation between the physical and spiritual from God's perspective. Humans are blind to the spiritual reality around them. The physical is just as much a reality in heaven as it is on earth. Heaven is not separated from the physical. Heaven operates just fine. The physical is on the earth, because God created life that way. God also created the heavens to be as physical as well as spiritual.

Humans are so messed up with the virtual effects of science and science fiction, that no one knows the true reality of heaven. They seem to view heaven as some science fiction narrative. Then claim nothing can exist physically up there. What cannot exist in heaven is sin and death. That is only a reality on earth.

Heaven is probably stranger than the science fiction we are fed on earth. Satan is not very original. But to say how much similar would be only guessing. Paul could not describe it from a fist century perspective: 2 Corinthians 12:4

"How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Paul is not saying they were a bunch of sinners breaking the Law. It would make sense that what went on in heaven was not expressable to those living in blindness on the earth. Now to the verse that many form this opinion on: 1 Corinthians 15:49-51

"And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Paul is not saying the physical cannot be found in heaven. He is saying that this body of sin and death cannot enter the Kingdom without being changed.

The other verse is from Jesus own voice: John 3:11-13

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Jesus was saying humans don't go back and forth into heaven, which is true. Jesus never said they cannot go nor exist in heaven. Jesus was standing there talking to Nicodemus, and actually said the Son of man was in heaven. Was Jesus 2 places at the same time? Jesus was not physically on earth while spiritually in heaven. Jesus was making a point that He was without sin, while sin and death prevent humans from enjoying heaven. The point of Jesus being on the earth was to change humans back to the state they would be welcome into heaven not just spiritually but physically as well.

God was not separating the physical from the spiritual. God had to separate those of sin and death from the reality of those of life and spiritually whole. There have always been sons of God since the 6th Day, humans just like Adam and Eve. They were never involved in sin and death. They have been in heaven since before the Flood. But when Adam disobeyed God, he passed on sin and death to all his offspring. And that is who cannot enter heaven in their state of sin and death. Not until they are changed out of death into life.

What happens in heaven may not completely shock us like it did to Paul. We may relate more than Paul did. By this point, we should see it is us with issues, not heaven. Abraham lived by faith, but literally talked to the physical Jesus. Israel lived under the Law while the rest of humanity lived in fear and superstition. Now humans claim we can understand reality with science, literally knowledge. But that has placed too much emphasis on the physical. God never separated the physical and spiritual. God just could not let sin and death interact with the spiritual which was to represent God's holiness. The spiritual became just as wicked as the physical when the human spirit followed after Satan has demonic reality. God did not prevent that, but told humans to avoid that route at all cost. Humans still have the freedom to choose God or reject God.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Don’t be silly.

The ONLY reason we are redeemed is due to the God Man Jesus.
Jesus as a man in heaven is one of the pillars of our faith.
Not silly at all.
All the patriarch resurrected and went to heaven at Jesus resurrection.
So no, you do nat have a basis for your claim.

 

[Timtofly]

We are given an inheritance through Christ, which is reserved in heaven. But you cannot receive this inheritance while one is in the flesh.

No, in Adam's dead flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (Adam's flesh) were dissolved, we have a building (Jesus' flesh) of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Both are physical bodies.

You are claiming Adam was not created with a physical body. He only had one after he disobeyed God. That is being silly. It is the body of sin and death not allowed in heaven.

Adam had that permanent body from God. When Adam disobeyed God, he lost the permanent incorruptible physical body, and was given a dead corruptible physical body.

There is even a verse if you need proof: Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Seth was not in God's image and likeness. Seth had that body that could not enter heaven, nor inherit the kingdom of God. Adam could with God's image up until the point he disobeyed God. So two different physical bodies as Paul pointed out. One in God's image. The other in Adam's image. Romans 5:12-19

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

All physical bodies.

 

[Truthnightmare]

So is the sea of glass. Revelation 4:6

"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind."

The text say “ it was like

No, in Adam's dead flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (Adam's flesh) were dissolved, we have a building (Jesus' flesh) of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Both are physical bodies.

You are claiming Adam was not created with a physical body. He only had one after he disobeyed God. That is being silly. It is the body of sin and death not allowed in heaven.

Adam had that permanent body from God. When Adam disobeyed God, he lost the permanent incorruptible physical body, and was given a dead corruptible physical body.

There is even a verse if you need proof: Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Seth was not in God's image and likeness. Seth had that body that could not enter heaven, nor inherit the kingdom of God. Adam could with God's image up until the point he disobeyed God. So two different physical bodies as Paul pointed out. One in God's image. The other in Adam's image. Romans 5:12-19

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

All physical bodies.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave

See how simple that was.

 

[Truthnightmare]

The ONLY reason we are redeemed is due to the God Man Jesus.
Jesus as a man in heaven is one of the pillars of our faith.
Not silly at all.
All the patriarch resurrected and went to heaven at Jesus resurrection.
So no, you do nat have a basis for your claim.

There is a reason you don’t post scripture.
No where in any Bible does it say the patriarchs were resurrected into to heaven.

You're just making crap up!

Moses and Elijah came down and talked to Jesus. When were they resurrected? This has to be the dumbest rebuttal in the history of Bible forums.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is a reason you don’t post scripture.
No where in any Bible does it say the patriarchs were resurrected into to heaven.

You're just making crap up!

Moses and Elijah came down and talked to Jesus. When were they resurrected? This has to be the dumbest rebuttal in the history of Bible forums.

i have little time to do your homework.
The bible says Jesus descended down into hell. He told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in Paradise. The Bible says that many were raised from the dead and walked the streets of Jerusalem and were seen by multitudes at Jesus resurrection. The Bible says that when Jesus went to Paradise he took captivity captive. He raised those Patriarchs from the dead that had never heard the gospel because he preached the gospel to them when he descended into the Earth. If you look at the rich man and Lazarus some people call it a parable but it's not, but anyway, in that story, Paradise was below the Earth and it was right next to hell .

and that's where the Patriarchs were
they were in a separate area from the people that were burning in hell.

Now if you want to call the Bible all kinds of names you're free to do so but you need to educate yourself before you make a fool out of yourself

 

[Truthnightmare]

No, in Adam's dead flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle (Adam's flesh) were dissolved, we have a building (Jesus' flesh) of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Both are physical bodies.

You are claiming Adam was not created with a physical body. He only had one after he disobeyed God. That is being silly. It is the body of sin and death not allowed in heaven.

Adam had that permanent body from God. When Adam disobeyed God, he lost the permanent incorruptible physical body, and was given a dead corruptible physical body.

There is even a verse if you need proof: Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

Seth was not in God's image and likeness. Seth had that body that could not enter heaven, nor inherit the kingdom of God. Adam could with God's image up until the point he disobeyed God. So two different physical bodies as Paul pointed out. One in God's image. The other in Adam's image. Romans 5:12-19

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

All physical bodies.

All physical bodies? Ok you obviously do not read the Bible.

Corinthian 15
is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a natural body (flesh)
There is a spiritual body (spirit)

No need to continue a bible discussion with a person who has not read the Bible.

 

[Truthnightmare]

i have little time to do your homework.
The bible says Jesus descended down into hell. He told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in Paradise. The Bible says that many were raised from the dead and walked the streets of Jerusalem and were seen by multitudes at Jesus resurrection. The Bible says that when Jesus went to Paradise he took captivity captive. He raised those Patriarchs from the dead that had never heard the gospel because he preached the gospel to them when he descended into the Earth. If you look at the rich man and Lazarus some people call it a parable but it's not, but anyway, in that story, Paradise was below the Earth and it was right next to hell .

and that's where the Patriarchs were
they were in a separate area from the people that were burning in hell.

Now if you want to call the Bible all kinds of names you're free to do so but you need to educate yourself before you make a fool out of yourself

Post the scripture that says the patriarch’s resurrected to heaven when Jesus resurrected. If you can’t, don’t bother responding, I’m only interested in what the Bible says not your nonsense.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Post the scripture that says the patriarch’s resurrected to heaven when Jesus resurrected. If you can’t, don’t bother responding, I’m only interested in what the Bible says not your nonsense.

You are pretty nasty.
But here is part of your homework i did for you.

"The foundation for the belief that Jesus descended into hell can be found in several passages throughout the Bible. One of the most well-known is Ephesians 4:8-10 (NKJV), which states, “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men…He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.” These verses tell us that Jesus, after descending, also ascended and gave gifts to men.

Another important passage is 1 Peter 3:18-20 (NKJV), which explains that Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah.” This passage supports the idea that Jesus descended into hell to preach to those who had died in their sins"

From
viralbeliever.com

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is a reason you don’t post scripture.
No where in any Bible does it say the patriarchs were resurrected into to heaven.

You're just making crap up!

Moses and Elijah came down and talked to Jesus. When were they resurrected? This has to be the dumbest rebuttal in the history of Bible forums.

This is sad
It is called "condemnation before investigation"
Will bite you every time.

 

[Truthnightmare]

You are pretty nasty.
But here is part of your homework i did for you.

"The foundation for the belief that Jesus descended into hell can be found in several passages throughout the Bible. One of the most well-known is Ephesians 4:8-10 (NKJV), which states, “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men…He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.” These verses tell us that Jesus, after descending, also ascended and gave gifts to men.

Another important passage is 1 Peter 3:18-20 (NKJV), which explains that Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah.” This passage supports the idea that Jesus descended into hell to preach to those who had died in their sins"

From
viralbeliever.com

I’m not nasty, I just no BS when I see it. You seem to think it’s ok to lie as long as you’re nice.

Ephesians 4
Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

This says nothing about patriarchs being resurrected. Your just making crap up!

Another important passage is 1 Peter 3:18-20 (NKJV), which explains that Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah.”

What are you even talking about? This says nothing about patriarchs being resurrected.

Jesus preached to the spirits that were disobedient. Are you suggesting Jesus was preaching to the patriarchs, and the patriarchs were disobedient…

Your argument is nonsensical. Nothing you posted says the patriarchs were resurrected when Jesus resurrected. Pure foolishness.