The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Truthnightmare]

This is sad
It is called "condemnation before investigation"
Will bite you every time.

It’s called make crap up! That’s why you can’t provide evidence that the patriarchs were resurrected when Jesus was resurrected.

Even in the book of Luke we see Abraham before Jesus has died.

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

So Abraham a patriarch that’s already in heaven resurrected back to heaven when Christ died.

You can’t make this s()it up.

 

[rwb]

It’s called make crap up! That’s why you can’t provide evidence that the patriarchs were resurrected when Jesus was resurrected.

Even in the book of Luke we see Abraham before Jesus has died.

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

So Abraham a patriarch that’s already in heaven resurrected back to heaven when Christ died.

You can’t make this s()it up.

Whose graves were opened after Christ was resurrected, when many saints came out of the graves and went into the holy city?

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

If you say they were physically resurrected, how do you reconcile Scripture that says there will not be a physical resurrection from the graves until the last trumpet sounds and in an hour that is coming?

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Timtofly]

The text say “ it was like

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave

See how simple that was.

Did I state what happens to Adam's dead flesh? Thought you already knew that. You did not give any proof there is not a physical aspect to Paradise and they all have physical bodies.

Revelation 7 states they have bodies and physical garments, and waiving physical palm leaves. They even have physical trees in Paradise.

Paradise is a physical place for all things physical. There is no Scripture that states otherwise.

I never described the sea of glass. I stated it was a location like Paradise is a location. Paradise simply means Garden. It may be a city, it may not be. The term "sea of glass" could mean anything, no? If you saw a house, you would say house to describe what you saw to get your point across. If you saw a throne or temple, you would say throne or temple. Do you think John saw a sea of glass? Revelation 15:2

"stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God"

Does it matter to you what that sea of glass is? All I am pointing out is that it is a location, and they were standing on this sea of glass. That is a physical description.

 

[ewq1938]

Do you know how to utilize the Greek? It would seem not.

I'm the one using the Greek, not you.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [a]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

We are given an inheritance through Christ, which is reserved in heaven. But you cannot receive this inheritance while one is in the flesh.

That is not inheriting the Kingdom. It's inheriting a new body which is immortal.

Paul said…
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Absent from the body…

You have proven my point very nicely, thank you.

Your point is false. Flesh and blood can enter the current heaven if God brings someone there which has happened.

 

[Timtofly]

All physical bodies? Ok you obviously do not read the Bible.

Corinthian 15
is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a natural body (flesh)
There is a spiritual body (spirit)

No need to continue a bible discussion with a person who has not read the Bible.

Jesus said He was not a spirit. Luke 24:39

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Are you saying Jesus could not go to heaven?

Paul did not say the body was spirit, that is all your human understanding.

Paul said the body was spiritual of God, not carnel, of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

A body is still physical. The spirit is what is spirit. The image of God is a soul with both a body and a spirit. All you have is a soul and body. Did you not understand this verse:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Both are physical bodies. The one from God more permanent than the one from Adam. As Paul puts it, one natural from Adam. One spiritual from God.

You should probably stop reading human understanding into God's Word. Definitions don't change. When a writer states both forms, the one from Adam and the one from God are bodies, they are both physical.

 

[PinSeeker]

Amazing, the silly twist and turns you need to somehow cover yourself from being wrong about noah
ascending above mountains.

Uh, Rebuilder, no one disagrees that Noah was far above the ground, and even above the mountains… in a boat.

We all have been wrong.

About Noah being “removed” from anything, yes, and that it’s some kind of “example” of a “rapture,” yes.

You got owned. Too much pride to admit it.

<Chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Can you prove the sea of glass is on the earth?

"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind."

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

So those who got the victory end up on this sea of glass. No one stays on the earth to get a victory. Those who come down on white horses are these people on the sea of glass. They are waiting during this time, just like you claim souls are waiting somewhere for the Second Coming.

The only difference is that the church is in Paradise, and these people are waiting on a sea of glass that is not Paradise. They are not dead. They are very much alive, and getting the victory over what is going on down on the earth somewhere below.

They have physical harps and literally singing with physical lungs. They sing the song of Moses and deliverance. This sea of glass is their "ark of safety". If you want to say it is floating on the clouds, why not? These people return from the sky on horses after the 42 months are up. That is the point of their waiting. So how can you say, they all are still on the earth watching themselves come down from the sky? Why would they not descend with physical white horses?

Unless you think white horses are symbolic of some kind of airplane or air ship?

Interesting. . And quite entertaining…

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[TribulationSigns]

TS, I understand and agree with how you spiritually interpret these prophetic words of Daniel. I don't understand why you cannot acknowledge "thy people" of Daniel's prophecy is not limited only to people of faith. For the prophecy to make sense it must be understood as having dual prophecy to ALL of Daniel's people, both ethnically and spiritually. Not only the faithful throughout the New Covenant age of grace, but also the people of Daniel's ethnic heritage.

Of course. But only the chosen saints of the Old Testament and the New Testament in Christ.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Did I state what happens to Adam's dead flesh? Thought you already knew that. You did not give any proof there is not a physical aspect to Paradise and they all have physical bodies.

Revelation 7 states they have bodies and physical garments, and waiving physical palm leaves. They even have physical trees in Paradise.

Paradise is a physical place for all things physical. There is no Scripture that states otherwise.

I never described the sea of glass. I stated it was a location like Paradise is a location. Paradise simply means Garden. It may be a city, it may not be. The term "sea of glass" could mean anything, no? If you saw a house, you would say house to describe what you saw to get your point across. If you saw a throne or temple, you would say throne or temple. Do you think John saw a sea of glass? Revelation 15:2

"stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God"

Does it matter to you what that sea of glass is? All I am pointing out is that it is a location, and they were standing on this sea of glass. That is a physical description.

Flesh and blood does not (inherit) heaven. And to be absent from the body is to be present with Lord.
Enough said.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I'm the one using the Greek, not you.





That is not inheriting the Kingdom. It's inheriting a new body which is immortal.





Your point is false. Flesh and blood can enter the current heaven if God brings someone there which has happened.

According to the word, the body goes back to dust at death and the spirit goes to God. I’m going to take the words of Solomon over yours.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Jesus said He was not a spirit. Luke 24:39

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Are you saying Jesus could not go to heaven?

Paul did not say the body was spirit, that is all your human understanding.

Paul said the body was spiritual of God, not carnel, of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

A body is still physical. The spirit is what is spirit. The image of God is a soul with both a body and a spirit. All you have is a soul and body. Did you not understand this verse:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Both are physical bodies. The one from God more permanent than the one from Adam. As Paul puts it, one natural from Adam. One spiritual from God.

You should probably stop reading human understanding into God's Word. Definitions don't change. When a writer states both forms, the one from Adam and the one from God are bodies, they are both physical.

The Bible says there are two bodies.

1 Corinthians 15
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Two bodies! One natural one spiritual.

You say both are natural, that’s a pure a direct disrespect to the word.

Can you read?

Here it is again… There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Children can understand this.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I'm the one using the Greek, not you.





That is not inheriting the Kingdom. It's inheriting a new body which is immortal.





Your point is false. Flesh and blood can enter the current heaven if God brings someone there which has happened.

Since you use Greek, let your responses be only in Greek. Let us put the English language to the side. Then we shall see if you use Greek as a language and understand it. Or if you're just going to Biblehub copying and pasting.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Uh, Rebuilder, no one disagrees that Noah was far above the ground, and even above the mountains… in a boat.


About Noah being “removed” from anything, yes, and that it’s some kind of “example” of a “rapture,” yes.


<Chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

""About Noah being “removed” from anything, yes, and that it’s some kind of “example” of a “rapture,” yes.""
Now you go to a new one "removed"??? Lol
I showed you he ascended and descended.
All your dodging was in that concept.
You and your colleagues were convinced he DID NOT GO above the earth.
You ALL had no idea what the bible said in backing up what i said.
Genesis says he left the earth.
No brainer.
All of you got owned.
All i am doing is reporting the word and upsetting all of you.
Too funny watching you guys do all that dancing around over a no brainer.

 

[Truthnightmare]

""About Noah being “removed” from anything, yes, and that it’s some kind of “example” of a “rapture,” yes.""
Now you go to a new one "removed"??? Lol
I showed you he ascended and descended.
All your dodging was in that concept.
You and your colleagues were convinced he DID NOT GO above the earth.
You ALL had no idea what the bible said in backing up what i said.
Genesis says he left the earth.
No brainer.
All of you got owned.
All i am doing is reporting the word and upsetting all of you.
Too funny watching you guys do all that dancing around over a no brainer.

Genesis says Noah left the earth…. Utter nonsense!

 

[Davy]

Your point is false. Flesh and blood can enter the current heaven if God brings someone there which has happened.

It's still not the 'flesh' that is caught up to Heaven.

Like 2 Cor.12, Paul most likely was speaking about himself, as he was at one time stoned and left for dead (Acts 14:19). Paul said he was caught up to the 3rd Heaven, to Paradise.

What Paul had is what is commonly called a NDE, a near death experience. It means Paul's spirit is what was caught up to Paradise, not his flesh body.

Likewise with the prophets, when God revealed the Heavenly dimension behind the veil to them, they most often fell to the ground, thinking they had died (like Isaiah 6).

This is why Paul said in 1 Cor.15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. It's because our flesh bodies are for this 'present' world only. Our flesh is not what is saved.

 

[Davy]

Whose graves were opened after Christ was resurrected, when many saints came out of the graves and went into the holy city?

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

If you say they were physically resurrected, how do you reconcile Scripture that says there will not be a physical resurrection from the graves until the last trumpet sounds and in an hour that is coming?

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Better still, since Hebrews 9:27 says it is appointed unto men once to die, and then the judgment, how could those that came out of their graves at Jesus' crucifixion have their dead flesh bodies literally resurrected only to die again later, which would mean dying twice?

Those who came out of their graves at Christ's resurrection revealed theirselves in their resurrected spirit bodies, not their old flesh bodies. Forget carnal notions that one must be in flesh body just to appear here on earth. The angels don't have flesh bodies.

 

[Truthnightmare]

It's still not the 'flesh' that is caught up to Heaven.

Like 2 Cor.12, Paul most likely was speaking about himself, as he was at one time stoned and left for dead (Acts 14:19). Paul said he was caught up to the 3rd Heaven, to Paradise.

What Paul had is what is commonly called a NDE, a near death experience. It means Paul's spirit is what was caught up to Paradise, not his flesh body.

Likewise with the prophets, when God revealed the Heavenly dimension behind the veil to them, they most often fell to the ground, thinking they had died (like Isaiah 6).

This is why Paul said in 1 Cor.15:50 that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. It's because our flesh bodies are for this 'present' world only. Our flesh is not what is saved.

The Bible declares we have two bodies.
Not 1 not 10 not 56… Just 2 bodies.

One body is spiritual this body has no flesh, Christ made this clear and empathetic.

39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

That’s the spiritual body, no flesh and no bones.

Solomon tells us about the other body …

then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The dust represents the flesh body…

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken; for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”

The natural body gets old and sick and goes back into the earth, the spiritual man returns to God.

For these people to claim all body's are flesh, borderlines the dumbest of the dumbest. To turn what is clearly written into some nonsensical fantasy is beyond me.

 

[Davy]

The Bible declares we have two bodies.
Not 1 not 10 not 56… Just 2 bodies.

One body is spiritual this body has no flesh, Christ made this clear and empathetic.

Yeah, I know that. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 showed it, 1 Cor.15 shows it, 2 Cor.5 shows it, etc.

For these people to claim all body's are flesh, borderlines the dumbest of the dumbest. To turn what is clearly written into some nonsensical fantasy is beyond me.

I agree, and I have tried many times to explain the Scriptures to them. They refuse to understand that their real 'person' is not their flesh body. Those won't understand until their flesh either dies, or is cast off on the day of Christ's coming.

 

[ewq1938]

The Bible declares we have two bodies.
Not 1 not 10 not 56… Just 2 bodies.

One body is spiritual this body has no flesh, Christ made this clear and empathetic.

39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

That’s the spiritual body, no flesh and no bones.

You have it backwards. Jesus is comparing his spiritual body of flesh and bone to a spirit which has neither. A spirit here is a ghost type of entity. The spiritual body is not spirit.

 

[Truthnightmare]

You have it backwards. Jesus is comparing his spiritual body of flesh and bone to a spirit which has neither. A spirit here is a ghost type of entity. The spiritual body is not spirit.

A spirit is not a ghost type of entity.

You have it backwards. Jesus is comparing his spiritual body of flesh and bone to a spirit which has neither. A spirit here is a ghost type of entity. The spiritual body is not spirit.

You can’t be serious!

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is a spirit! Does God have a body?

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

So we see God has a back, and hands, are the hands of God flesh? Is the back of God flesh.

God is a spirit, spirits don’t have flesh, you people are nuts! To think there are people in heaven walking around with flesh bodies and blood types is insane.