The 144,000 before God at the end.

[marks]

My question to you is , WHY do you THINK so many are so fast to ignore me or put me on ignore .

I can only guess, but are you seriously asking my opinion?

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

What you consider spiritually discerned is making up a bunch of nonsense in scripture that fits your manmade doctrine that was originated by men that had no faith that God would keep His Word and restore the nation of Israel. All this doctrine originates in UNBELIEF. Which is exactly why you cannot just accept what is written about the 144,000. Unbelief in the written Word of God.

Paul described you superbly.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not sidestepping anything, and don't get accusatory if you want to discuss this with me.

There is no explicit rapture timing statement in the Bible period.

That is false, period.

Where do you see the resurrection of the dead in Matthew 24?

The connection is the second coming. One passage connects the resurrection and rapture to the second coming, the other connects the second coming to immediately after the end of the tribulation. Together shows the rapture happens just after the second coming and that coming happens after the trib has ended.

 

[The Light]

The connection is the second coming. One passage connects the resurrection and rapture to the second coming, the other connects the second coming to immediately after the end of the tribulation. Together shows the rapture happens just after the second coming and that coming happens after the trib has ended.

Right the second coming happens immediately after the tribulation. Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then the wrath of God begins. At the end of wrath at the 7th trumpet Jesus has returned after the marriage supper for Armageddon and then to set up His kingdom on earth. The second advent when Jesus returns to the earth.

 

[ewq1938]

At the end of wrath at the 7th trumpet Jesus has returned after the marriage supper for Armageddon and then to set up His kingdom on earth.

Almost. The wrath of God begins at the 7th trump. The wrath ends after the 7th vial.

The second advent when Jesus returns to the earth.

Yes, but not the ground of the Earth. The second advent is in the air. At first to the clouds, then descending where people can see him and from where he fights at Armageddon. Only after all that is finished will he set foot on the Earth. It mirrors the first coming where as a baby he was kept up and away from the ground for a period of time. Only after his arrival did he ever touch the ground, and is true for both comings. Isn't it fun to learn new things?

 

[marks]

That is false, period.



The connection is the second coming. One passage connects the resurrection and rapture to the second coming, the other connects the second coming to immediately after the end of the tribulation. Together shows the rapture happens just after the second coming and that coming happens after the trib has ended.

I was more thinking you might post the verses.

Much love!

 

[The Light]

Almost. The wrath of God begins at the 7th trump. The wrath ends after the 7th vial.

Right. And Jesus set up His kingdom at the end of the trumpets for nothing. And judgement at the end of the trumpets is for nothing.

The vials occur in the same timeframe as the trumpets as they are the wrath of God.

Yes, but not the ground of the Earth. The second advent is in the air.

No the second advent is to the ground. The way Jesus left is the way He will return.

At the second coming Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord and realize that wrath is about to begin with the trumpets of wrath.

 

[marks]

No the second advent is to the ground. The way Jesus left is the way He will return.

Zechariah 14:3-4 KJV
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Men gonna do as men gonna do . Time for all lambs to BIBLE UP and learn for themselves .

i like that = "Bible Up"

 

[David in NJ]

Re read it.
Without changing it.
"11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh"

Don't add to it, or modify it.
That vs 13 hurts. I know it does.
Seals the fact that it is the rapture and half the church, carnal believers are left to be martyred.

Re read it.
Without changing it.
"11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

LOST FOREVER

 

[David in NJ]

I know the postrib truth.
It is rev 19
Jesus returns with saints on billions of horses blackening the sky.
There are no postrib rapture verses.

Rev ch19 are not resurrected Saints.

But you do not understand 1st & 2nd Thessalonians

 

[David in NJ]

Dodging flying scorpions.
You have never experienced the great trib
That is made up by men.
The AC kills all refusing the mark.
Only the 144k are sealed against the flying scorpions.
All believers are martyred.
Early in the trib we see billions of believers killed.
Martyred.
Beleivers.
A sea of believers so great they can not be martyred.
But that does not fit your doctrine.
There is no postrib rapture.
Men made that up.
You guys picture yourself running from cave to cave with the Antichrist and his henchmen hot on your heels and you think that God is going to protect you but billions get martyred.
billions.
a sea of people martyred by the Antichrist in heaven they died .
but you and about 10 other people are they only ones that escaped right?

The great tribulation i escaped from the other night was 'insomnia'.

Last night i suffered tribulation until about 2:30am

 

[The Light]

Zechariah 14:3-4 KJV
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Much love!

Exactly the second advent is Jesus coming from the clouds to the ground. This will happen at the end of the trumpets when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven.

The second coming is Jesus remaining in the clouds and sending His angels to gather a harvest at the 6th seal. This is the harvest of the 12 tribes and this is why there are 144,000 first fruits of this harvest. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord as He remains in the Clouds.

When the Lord returns to get the first bride, the Church, no one will see Him or hear Him. The Lord himself will come and take the bride to His Fathers house where He has repaired a place.

 

[Stan B]

There is no explicit rapture timing statement in the Bible period.

Explicit rapture is certainly mentioned in MY Bible! The rapture happens between the 6th and 7th Seal Rev 7:9-17. It happens in the exact middle of the tribulation right before the 7th Seal is opened and the antichrist is revealed.

The calamities of first 5 Seals are not orchestrated by God. The just give freedom to the antichrist to set up his world rule. After getting the saints out of the way in Rev 7, you will see that with chapter 8, judgement upon this remaining, is directed by God, with plague after plague being administered by Angel 1, :, : etc. These judgements which run :.5 years were never intended for the saints.

 

[David in NJ]

Explicit rapture is certainly mentioned in MY Bible! The rapture happens between the 6th and 7th Seal Rev 7:9-17. It happens in the exact middle of the tribulation right before the 7th Seal is opened and the antichrist is revealed.

The calamities of first 5 Seals are not orchestrated by God. The just give freedom to the antichrist to set up his world rule. After getting the saints out of the way in Rev 7, you will see that with chapter 8, judgement upon this remaining, is directed by God, with plague after plague being administered by Angel 1, :, : etc. These judgements which run :.5 years were never intended for the saints.

OT Prophet Daniel says that the Antichrist comes BEFORE the LORD'S Return.
JESUS agrees with the OT Prophecies beginning in Genesis.

Matthew ch24
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

 

[marks]

Explicit rapture is certainly mentioned in MY Bible! The rapture happens between the 6th and 7th Seal Rev 7:9-17. It happens in the exact middle of the tribulation right before the 7th Seal is opened and the antichrist is revealed.

The calamities of first 5 Seals are not orchestrated by God. The just give freedom to the antichrist to set up his world rule. After getting the saints out of the way in Rev 7, you will see that with chapter 8, judgement upon this remaining, is directed by God, with plague after plague being administered by Angel 1, :, : etc. These judgements which run :.5 years were never intended for the saints.

I wouldn't say it's explicit though.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The rapture happens between the 6th and 7th Seal Rev 7:9-17.

I do agree this shows the rapture of the church, though I think the seals are opened in the time it takes to read the chapter, before the 70th week. And that the 7th seal marks the beginning of the week.

I think the trumpets are sounded in the first half, then the bowls are emptied in the second half.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

The vials occur in the same timeframe as the trumpets as they are the wrath of God.

No, they don't pour until the 7th trump has sounded. That's when the wrath of God takes place.

No the second advent is to the ground. The way Jesus left is the way He will return.

The second advent is when he is in the air. It is only after Armageddon is finished that he will step on the ground and the Coming is already completed by that time.

At the second coming Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord and realize that wrath is about to begin with the trumpets of wrath.

There are no trumpets left to sound by that time.

 

[covenantee]

What you consider spiritually discerned is making up a bunch of nonsense in scripture that fits your manmade doctrine that was originated by men that had no faith that God would keep His Word and restore the nation of Israel. All this doctrine originates in UNBELIEF. Which is exactly why you cannot just accept what is written about the 144,000. Unbelief in the written Word of God.

You deny that spiritual discernment is required to understand the 144,000.

So provide from Scripture an example that does require spiritual discernment.

And explain why and how it does.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, that is false. The rapture is placed after the resurrection which is placed after the second coming. This is post-trib.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

Both sides believe all that.
The game changer is that the pretrib rapture verses, make a postrib rapture impossible.
You cant erase the pretrib rapture verses.