The 144,000 before God at the end.

[The Light]

You are missing the point.

Those 42 months are an extension in the midst of the week of the 7th Trumpet.

Yes, the 7th Trumpet is the victory declaration. This is the week divided that extends the Atonement Covenant to the many.

The last 3.5 days of the 7th Trumpet is after the 42 month interruption.

The 7th trumpet is the finish. That's it.

Rev 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

That is why you miss seeing why Jesus and the 144k are on mount zion for those 42 months. Jesus and the 144k do not co-reign on the throne in Jerusalem with Satan and his angels. They wait on mount zion and return at Armageddon 42 months later.

You are really confused. The 144,000 are the first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal.

You conflate the Second Coming of the 6th Seal, with the 7th Trumpet declaration. Two seperate events.

Come on man. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT THAT I AM MAKING. They are two separate events. The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal is not the second advent. It is the second coming. Two separate events.

John does not give every explanation necessary, but no one needs to change the chronological order of Revelation at all. Because changing the order introduces one's private interpretation into Scripture, and changes are arbitrary, so no one agrees on what changes need to be made anyways.

But what you don't understand is that the 7th trumpet of the 7th seal is the end of wrath. Revelation 13 and 14 takes place in the 1st four seals. Revelation 15 and 16 takes place in the 7th seal.

What needs to be agreed about is the why Jesus and the 144k are now on mount zion,

Jesus has come to the earth to redeem the 144,000 from the earth BECAUSE they are the 1st fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal.

instead of Jesus being in the throne since the 6th Seal was opened. You deny there is a Second Coming as well, but the 6th Seal is the only Second Coming as described in Zechariah 14, the Olivet Discourse, and the writings of Paul and Peter.

The 6th seal is the 2nd coming. It has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with Zechariah 14 as Zechariah 14 is the day of the Lord, WRATH. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal for a harvest, then the wrath of God will begin after the 1st trumpet sounds. At the end of the trumpets is the 2nd advent when Jesus sets up His kingdom.

Revelation 19 does not fit any of those Scriptures.

It is Armageddon. Armageddon is OVER before the 7th trumpet sounds.

If the 42 months do not happen then the winepress of God's wrath in Revelation 14 happens.

Has nothing to do with the 42 months.

The 7th Trumpet stops sounding. The Millennium begins.

Awesome. You understand that. So do I.

No 42 months, no leaving for mount zion, and no return at Armageddon. And no changing the chronological order. Stating the 42 months may or may not happen is not re-arranging the order. It is merely giving two different outcomes. Either Revelation 14 or Revelation 19. Revelation 20 still happens and Satan is bound either way. The FP and beast are not in Revelation 20. They only exist if those 42 months happen. Revelation 13 is after the 7th Trumpet starts sounding, in the midst of the week of days of the 7th Trumpet.

You are all messed up with this 42 months stuff. There are not two different outcomes. You have bad logic in there somewhere.

All I can say is that you understand that the millennial kingdom starts at the 7th trumpet. If you see that you should be able to see that Revelation 13 and 14 occurs in the 1st four seals and Revelation 15 and 16 occurs in the 7th seal.

 

[The Light]

Only in your mind.

$1,000.00 for you if you can find JESUS or the Apostles saying: "Before the AOD the Saints/Elect/Church will be raptured away"

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

JESUS is warning us to escape = drunkeness, carousing, cares of this life = temptations including the Mark, which is this life

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."
1 Corinthians 10:13

 

[Timtofly]

No, that is false. The rapture is placed after the resurrection which is placed after the second coming. This is post-trib.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

That is the 5th and 6th Seals being opened. That is exactly what they mean, and represent. Jesus brings all with Him and those on earth all put on white robes all at the same time. Then Jesus plants His feet on the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14. The glorified church waits in Paradise, until all the final harvest is carried out.

The angels and Jesus come to earth to set up the throne and Temple in Jerusalem. Then the angels seal the 144k. Then the sheep and goat judgment starts to gather Israel out of all their personal nations.

The sheep wait on the sea of glass. The goats are cast alive into the LOF. That is what the first 6 Trumpets are for: Jacob's Trouble, also called the GT.

 

[The Light]

JESUS is warning us to escape = drunkeness, carousing, cares of this life = temptations including the Mark, which is this life

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."
1 Corinthians 10:13

Only problem is Jesus said we can escape the false Christs, beast of the earth and beast of the sea, we can escape, the wars, famines and pestilence which are the beginning of sorrows. We can also escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man. You attempting to compare that to overcoming temptations is no less than ridiculous. Things like this are reason that many of you don't understand the Word of God. How can you even think like this?

 

[amigo de christo]

JESUS is warning us to escape = drunkeness, carousing, cares of this life = temptations including the Mark, which is this life

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."
1 Corinthians 10:13

Jesus is also speaking of the wrath of GOD and not the tribulations and wrath of men and of the dragon .
These folks see pre trib as pre wrath . That is the problem in and of itself .
THEY see the tribulations of the beast and etc that cometh against the saints as being the WRATH OF GOD ITSELF .
NOPE . We are appointed unto tribulations from men . ITS the wrath that comes of GOD we wont be appointed unto
That wrath cometh against the ungodly , the beast and all who followed it . They somehow tie
the great tribulation that comes from the beast and turns into the wrath of GOD against the left behind .
NOPE . GOD , HIS wrath will come and it will come against the ungodly who loved a lie and followed that wicked beast
the dragon the ac . IF we but read revelation for ourselves we would see that .
WE see a great tribulation that comes from the Dragon by the beast and men against the saints
WE also see a great wrath that cometh FROM GOD against the beast , fp and those who followed its lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only problem is Jesus said we can escape the false Christs, beast of the earth and beast of the sea, we can escape, the wars, famines and pestilence which are the beginning of sorrows. We can also escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man. You attempting to compare that to overcoming temptations is no less than ridiculous. Things like this are reason that many of you don't understand the Word of God. How can you even think like this?

Yeah , rather JESUS warned us many would betray many and some of you they shall put to death . He rather warned us
to expect TRIBULATION in this world . ITS the wrath OF GOD HIMSELF that we will not be appointed unto .
That is what we wont go under . But the beast is a saint killer . The harlot is a saint killer
my advice is this , we had better be prepared to be betrayed . In fact its already beginning on a lower level .
Lambs like me are already being cast out of sold out false love churches . We are being seen as dangerous
and as a burden and a threat on society and world peace and unity . And they all holler GOD is love
while neither knowing GOD or HIS LOVE . FOR the love they follow and the god they beleive in
HAS TURNED THEM AGAINST BIBLCAL TRUTH . THEY see the GOD of old test as some kind of monster
THEY see only this lovey do jesus which actually CONTRADICTS THE HECK OUT OF THE TRUE BIBILCAL JESUS in areas .
My advice is , We bess not be going under this common ground unity , false love , lie . cause , WELL ITS COMING
from the dragon and his co workers and them co workers are within CHRISTENDOM BIG TIME .
The churches , FOR THE MOST part , have swallowed the all inclusive rainbow pill , the all inclusive many path to GOD LIE
the all inclusive IDOL of THIS LOVE that has turned them against THE TRUE AGAPE LOVE OF GOD , AGAINST GOD
and against the lambs . We better watch out is all i can say .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only problem is Jesus said we can escape the false Christs, beast of the earth and beast of the sea, we can escape, the wars, famines and pestilence which are the beginning of sorrows. We can also escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man. You attempting to compare that to overcoming temptations is no less than ridiculous. Things like this are reason that many of you don't understand the Word of God. How can you even think like this?

Ps never follow pope francis or the sold out all inclusive protestant churches who have bought into the lie .
The lambs shall follow CHRIST JESUS . And any love , any unity , any thing that contradicts the biblical GOD ,
IT gets tossed out as a lie . for the lambs follow the KING and a strangers voice they simply will not , will not heed nor follow .
Let us stay in those bibles my friends . AND test all men against that lovely pure and holy truth IN that bible .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only problem is Jesus said we can escape the false Christs, beast of the earth and beast of the sea, we can escape, the wars, famines and pestilence which are the beginning of sorrows. We can also escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man. You attempting to compare that to overcoming temptations is no less than ridiculous. Things like this are reason that many of you don't understand the Word of God. How can you even think like this?

We are in an all out end time battle hour where deceptoin and deceptoins have abounded massive .
The light many now follow is not light but rather darkness . And i warn us all if the light that is in one be darkness
THEN GREAT that darkness is . JESUS SAID IT FIRST THOUGH .
We better ALL be on gaurd and alert is all i can say . For many , and boy do i mean many , decievers
have been planted and transplanted within CHRISTENDOM .
THEY HAVE and have had ONE MISSION . CHANGE IT FROM WITHIN and mold it into a religoin
that ALL peoples can accept . THEY call it love , BUT IT AINT LOVE .
This love lie they preach is a love that all who are of the world , of false religoins CAN and WILL UNIFY UNDER .
UNDER THIS love they FIND COMMON GROUND .
THAT WAS AND IS THE GOAL of the DARK ONE and his co workers .
BUILD a religion that ALL CAN UNITE UNDER . LOVE . ONLY it aint love and it aint coming FROM GOD .
WHY Do you think that for years
the false religoins , UNDER the guise of christendom i might add , Started focusing so much on just doing good works
and finding common ground . ON what they call breaking down walls that divide .
YOU DO realize what that really meant and means . IT MEANS break down the fundamental teachings
WITHIN ALL religoins . YOU CANNOT unite the worlds religoins IF THEM RELIGIONS stay FUNDMENTAL .
NO way could a mulsim hold hands with a christain and a jew and new age and etc .
YOU HAVE TO FIND OUT what they all have in common . WHAT THE WORLD ITSELF has in common .
THEN PREACH THAT and all the while keep breaking down , aka REMOVING CORE TENTANTS of FUNDAMENTAL beleifs .
SO THEY DID . THEY started focusing on doing good , on finding common ground
and big time on the word love . ONLY any christain , WITH EYES TO SEE
would have easily seen THIS love they preached on , WAS NOT COMING FROM GOD .
CAUSE CHARITY , REJOICES ONLY IN THE TRUTH , NOT LIES , NOT INQUITY . BINGO .
But most fell for it anyway .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only problem is Jesus said we can escape the false Christs, beast of the earth and beast of the sea, we can escape, the wars, famines and pestilence which are the beginning of sorrows. We can also escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man. You attempting to compare that to overcoming temptations is no less than ridiculous. Things like this are reason that many of you don't understand the Word of God. How can you even think like this?

The volunteer phase is over . I am recruiting . RECRUITING lambs to stand and contend for the true faith .
To warn out against the lie and point only to CHRIST and all sound biblical doctrine .
NOW we wont be loved , we wont be embraced . BUT at least some might hear , repent and believe .
ITS gonna get real ugly in this world . INQUITY has captivated the lands , govts , and worse churches .
TILL NOW we got other paths being called valid . WE got sins being embraced and called good and even love .
THEY made a road so BRAOD TO GOD that everyone is on it . And the only ones they see as lost
or in danger , ARE THOSE WHO EXPOSE IT and point ONLY TO CHRIST , ONLY TO BIBICAL SOUND doctrine .
Now on this path , WE GET BETRAYED BUD . WE WILL NOT BE SEEN as NOR CALLED christain .
CAUSE Todays christanity DONT AGREE AT ALL with bibical christanity .
NO on this road we will only be hated more and more and more and more TILL SOCIETY
slams home the grand plan to rid the land of all NON CONFORMERS . ALL who worshipped not this image of this love god
they have created and served . As i said earlier . THE VOLUNTEERING PHASE is over .
I AM RECRUITING now . SO armour up and lets contend for the true faith , WHILE THERE STILL BE TIME TO DO SO .

 

[amigo de christo]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The volunteer phase of this campaign is over , ITS DRAFTING TIME . lambs have been VOLUNTEERED by ol amgio
to get up and start proclaiming the truth of the gospel and every WORD of the LORD .
Your ammo is the BIBLE . Your armour is of GOD . THE SPIRIT is our guide .
NOW HIT the trenches its all out war for the souls of men in these last hours upon earth .

 

[ewq1938]

@rebuilder 454 @The Light @marks @ewq1938

The DANGER of pre-trib = when the Mark comes and they are still here, what choice will they make???

I think a counterfeit jesus will offer a counterfeit seal of god but it would be the mark instead. Deceived people could be tricked into thinking they experienced a rapture and now are ruling with jesus on Earth. Any theology that does not teach to watch for the antichrist/false jesus is a dangerous theology.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus is talking about the disciples. They have to remain to spread the Word of God. We are at the end of the age. We do not have to remain. One will be taken and one left. We are taken to heaven for the marriage supper.

Paul said the rapture is to the clouds, not to the third heaven.

 

[ewq1938]

When seals are opened, the event will happen.

No, that interpretation is incorrect. The seals are no different than previous descriptions of the same end times events such as in the OD Matthew 24. They are described, but do not happen yet.

When the 6th seal is opened, Jesus will return for the second coming harvest before the wrath of God.

Yet the text does not show him going anywhere. He remained in heaven with the scroll to opened the 7th seal proving no second coming took place when the 6th was opened. You ignore this fact in favor of the beliefs you have.

When the 7th seal is opened wrath will begin when the 1st trumpet sounds. Wrath will end when the 7th trumpet sounds.

That also goes against the text of the bible which says the wrath begins at the 7th trump not ends there. You aren't going by what the text says.

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord...........Christ has set up His kingdom on earth. Judgement will happen. Wrath is OVER.

No, wrath starts. I've quoted it to you many times. You never accept it.

 

[ewq1938]

He skips half of Revelation and pretends it doesn't happen. Why, I don't know.

That is false, and nonsense.

 

[David in NJ]

I think a counterfeit jesus will offer a counterfeit seal of god but it would be the mark instead. Deceived people could be tricked into thinking they experienced a rapture and now are ruling with jesus on Earth. Any theology that does not teach to watch for the antichrist/false jesus is a dangerous theology.

Absolutely

 

[David in NJ]

Only problem is Jesus said we can escape the false Christs, beast of the earth and beast of the sea, we can escape, the wars, famines and pestilence which are the beginning of sorrows. We can also escape the great tribulation and stand before the Son of Man. You attempting to compare that to overcoming temptations is no less than ridiculous. Things like this are reason that many of you don't understand the Word of God. How can you even think like this?

The Saints/Elect have already and continue to die in wars, famines, pestilence, plagues, floods, earthquakes, lightning, tornadoes, prisons, hurricanes, mudslides, murders, vaccinations and such like.

This holds true today: Revelation 2:10 and Matthew 10:28

JESUS says: "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[David in NJ]

Christ dont come to gather the jews anymore than he comes to gather the gentiles .
NOW LEARN THIS WELL .
CHRIST COMES TO GATHER THE BELIEVING JEW AND BELIEVING GENTILE . AKA THE CHURCH .
ITS A one TIME Event pardner .
Pre trib taught you all this stuff .
Paul never wrote to the church and tried to seperate out the jewish believer from the gentile one .
WHEN HE wrote to the church , IT WAS THE CHURCH . And to the CHURCH he wrote what he wrote .
THERE IS no teaching that ever teaches GOD cometh for HIS CHURCH
later he comes to gather just the jews . MEN taught that stuff .
JESUS nor any other apostel ever once did .
THEY taught , CHURCH , those who BELEIVE IN CHRIST , its men who do as men do . BUT ITS HIGH TIME
to do as JESUS said to do . LEARN the doctrine for YOU . cause many men do deceive .
JESUS COMETH TO GATHER THOSE WHO BELIEVED ON HIM . THE REST GO UNDER THE WRATH OF GOD
THE flesh saveth none . The jew will wail as much as will the gentile who believed not ON THE DAY OF CHRIST .
But to the believing jew and gentile they shall be forever WITH HIM . YOU GO and learn what that meaneth .

Seperating Jew from Gentile in the Body of Christ is heresy and sin.

The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul specifically said when the LORD will gather the Jew & Gentile = at His Coming.

Matthew 23:37-39
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Romans 11:25-27
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”


Did you notice what the Apostle Paul said? = "as it is written"

 

[marks]

@rebuilder 454 @The Light @marks @ewq1938

The DANGER of pre-trib = when the Mark comes and they are still here, what choice will they make???

Will they realize that pre-trib was a lie at this point?
or
Will they take the Mark believing it is not the Mark because they have not been pre-trib raptured yet!!!

They firmly believe they will be 'raptured' BEFORE the coming of the wicked one.

Another weak argument I've heard for years! As if! Let you who think you stand take heed lest you fall. That's for you also!

This is an argument based on a sense of superiority and a small faith. Or do you suppose you have no error in your understandings? Or do you suppose that God will guard you in your error and not me in mine?

But through all of this while you do not argue with valid assertions, only casting aspersions on others, I've given you solid Scripture which you will not even begin to address.

I don't mind reading your posts when you have something to say, but please don't bother tagging me on vague accusatory posts like this, with poor argumentation that I'm in grave danger of damnation for being so horribly wrong.

And please don't bother with some accusation of how offended I must be. I'm trying to metacommunicate with you, with my goal an improvement in our dialog.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Here is another deception they use by twisting scripture as the serpent does:

Jesus forgave the sins of the world, therefore there is no more sin in the world...........embrace everyone and everything

It's like you are just flailing away at this point, I think after this you will be on my ignore, it shouldn't continue.

Behold, the Lamb of God, who carries away the sin of the world. That's Bible. Jesus did that. However that doesn't mean forgiveness does you any good unless you believe Him and receive it.

You twist my understanding of the Bible to make me look bad, and that's not a good thing.

Much love!