The 144,000 before God at the end.

[brightfame52]

@grafted branch

You said the 144000 and the multitude out of every kindred, and tongue, and people and nation are the same.

Yes

In Revelation 11:9 they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations don’t allow the two witnesses to be buried.

Yes more symbolical language

Where are you on this? Is Revelation 11:9 an exception to “the 144000 and the multitude out of every kindred, and tongue, and people and nation are the same”?

The 144000 in Rev 14 is probably the Glorified Church in Heavens Glory but in Rev 11 its the present state pf the church militant being persecuted for the Gospel sake, at this time its only a very small remnant.

However I will say this, the church in their standing in Christ is spotless, holy, unblameable, a chaste virgin etc

 

[rebuilder 454]

Actually, they/we as True Christians witness against everything in the church that is contrary to the Gospel - something they hate to hear because it torments them who believe the doctrines of the devils (lying signs and wonders). It is the battle between the Word of God coming out of the mouths of Christians and the word of Satan coming out of the false prophets and christs and people deceived by them.

I would add that it is not clear specifically what they do.
We know they shadow and follow Jesus in holiness and purity.
Maybe some one has a verse showing what they do

 

[rebuilder 454]

@grafted branch



Yes



Yes more symbolical language



The 144000 in Rev 14 is probably the Glorified Church in Heavens Glory but in Rev 11 its the present state pf the church militant being persecuted for the Gospel sake, at this time its only a very small remnant.

However I will say this, the church in their standing in Christ is spotless, holy, unblameable, a chaste virgin etc

Nowhere is the church described as coming out of and currently isolated to ethnic Jewish tribes EXCLUSIVELY.
You have no verses to show that.
It is appalling that anyone make the 144k into something they CAN NOT BE.
You are flat out wrong.

 

[rebuilder 454]

They witness against the false freewill man made religion !

Any true believer does.
That has nothing of substance in their vividly described difference of their pedigree and holiness.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Does this mean the 144,000 are not in agreement with the two witnesses? Or would there be another reason why they don’t allow the two witnesses to be buried?

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

No
It means the murderous population of that area did not bury them.
Muslims do that all the time.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There were way more than 144k resurrected at the Cross.

The 144k were never resurrected, nor physically dead. Read Revelation 7. These were living humans on earth at the time of the 6th Seal. The 6th Seal was not opened while Jesus was on the Cross.

"Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

What tribulation started the moment Jesus physically died on the Cross? These were sealed so the tribulation would not effect them on the earth. If they were in heaven at that point, they would not need to be protected on the earth. Nor does it say in Revelation 7, they ever left the earth.

You have the 144k in the wrong harvest. The OT were the firstfruits of the NT church, before there was an NT church other than the 12 disciples. The OT redeemed were as much a part of the church in Paradise from that moment on.

The 144k are the firstfruits of the Second Coming. They were separated like the 12 disciples were. The 12 disciples also went everywhere on earth that Jesus did, and eventually all made it to Paradise. But they did not ascend with Jesus in Acts 1.

The 144k are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom.

Nope
They are firstfruits because they PRECEDE the MAIN HARVEST of rev 14:14.
That is the ONLY reason they are firstfruits.
Very simple ..."first" means something must FOLLOW.
That is why "firstfruits" is called "firstfruits"
It will ALWAYS mean main harvest FOLLOWS.
How can this be muddied up??????????

 

[grafted branch]

The 144000 in Rev 14 is probably the Glorified Church in Heavens Glory but in Rev 11 its the present state pf the church militant being persecuted for the Gospel sake, at this time its only a very small remnant.

Ok, in Revelation 11:1 John is told to measure the temple and them that worship therein. In verse 2 he is told not to measure the court which is given to the Gentiles.

In Revelation 7 we see this same thing, the 144,000 are counted (measured) but the multitude in Revelation 7:9 no man can number. It seems to me these have to be two different groups of people. How is it possible that these two groups can both be referring to the church when one can be counted and the other can’t?

 

[brightfame52]

Nowhere is the church described as coming out of and currently isolated to ethnic Jewish tribes EXCLUSIVELY.
You have no verses to show that.
It is appalling that anyone make the 144k into something they CAN NOT BE.
You are flat out wrong.

You cant see what I see

 

[TribulationSigns]

Let me ask you this, why is the term great multitude used to describe the 144,00 instead of remnant?

Believe it or not, the great multitude is the remnant out of congregation of Israel since Abel. The great multitude is indeed very many, but the rest of the congregation are many more professed believers without wedding garments (being born again in Christ) who will end up in the Lake of Fire.

Mat 22:14
(14) For many are called, but few are chosen.

The few are the remnant, the great multitude.

 

[brightfame52]

Ok, in Revelation 11:1 John is told to measure the temple and them that worship therein. In verse 2 he is told not to measure the court which is given to the Gentiles.

In Revelation 7 we see this same thing, the 144,000 are counted (measured) but the multitude in Revelation 7:9 no man can number. It seems to me these have to be two different groups of people. How is it possible that these two groups can both be referring to the church when one can be counted and the other can’t?

I have said enough, believe what you believe. Im not here to convince you, and you not about to have me doing a lot of explaining, cause obviously you dont get it. I see the 144000 of Rev 14 being the redeemed of Rev 5:9 which is the Church. I already explained why, Im not about to go over the entire book of revelation for you friend, Im not the one.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Sorry, but that's impossible.

For those with carnal mind, of course, its impossible because they do not receive the love of the truth.

Those in Revelation 5:9-10 singing that new song were said to be the 4 living creatures and the 24 elders, taken out of every kindred, people, tongue and nation.

Ahh now you have brought up 24 elders so I think its time for me to explain who they really are if anyone have spiritual ears:

The word translated "elder" in the Old Testament is [zaqen] and in the New Testament [presbuteros], and both mean an older or senior persons. Sometimes it is translated "ancients" pointing to age for the same reason. Elder is usually used in Scripture as a designation of leaders/rulers (1st Timothy 5:17) or representative heads of a tribe/family or nation. Those who lead or rule are identified with being elders because older generally means wiser. This is where we also get the biblical convention that we should "respect our elders," though this principle of submission (Hebrews 13:17; 1st Peter 5:5) to elder leadership has suffered greatly in modern times. Nevertheless, the Scriptures often assign this title elder to heads of families (Patriarchs) or tribes, or to the rulers who led and taught the people of Israel. e.g.

Deuteronomy 31:9

• "And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel."

Note that the law of God was delivered to the "priests and elders" because these were the leaders of Israel to whom were given the task of teaching the Lord's people. It's not coincidence that the law of God was given to both the priests who bore the ark of the Covenant of God, and to the elders who bore rule over God's people. I believe that the designation in Revelation of the Elders being in number twenty-four points to them being the ruling priesthood (Exodus 19:5-6; Revelation 1:5-6; Revelation 5:9-10) of Israel who brought the law. This number 24 I believe is twofold.

Number One:

It is done as a designation of both Old and New Testaments rulers of Israel characterized by the twelve tribes or families of Israel in the old, and by the Twelve Apostles of Israel in the New. Twenty-four collectively makes up the whole household of God. This multiple of the metaphor of twelve illustrates the whole of Israel, representing the family of God. For example in the Old Testament story of the twelve brothers, the sons of Jacob were the progenitors of the twelve families of Israel. Or the twelve stars of the woman in Revelation Chapter twelve, or of the twelve Legions or companies of messengers Christ says He could pray the Father send to Defend Him (Matthew 26:53), etc., etc. This is also illustrated in its multiples by two (2x12 = 24) or multiples by twelve (12x12=144), or in multiples by thousands (144X1000=144,000. The number one thousand signifying fullness (as demonstrated in the thousand year reign in Revelation 20:3). These number metaphors can be seen culminating in the 144,000 of all the families of Israel that were sealed (Revelation 7:3-4).

Revelation 21:15-17

• "And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
• And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
• And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."

The 144,000 cubits of the wall of this building was according to the measure of a man that is of the messenger. This city's spiritual makeup is revealed to be of the Saints. In other words, when this Holy City is measured, that 144,00 cubit measure of a man, is the measure of the messenger [aggelos] of God. This city is made up of God's holy Messengers. Again the number metaphor of one hundred and forty-four is pointing us back to God's people as the building material of this Holy city. So these multiples of twelve referencing the body of believers have a solid foundation in the Holy Scripture.
This vivid example of New Jerusalem as a "representation" of the whole body of believers is characterized by twelve (old and New Testament saints) in a collective twenty-four, and is visualized in the building material of gates and foundations of this Spiritual City:

Revelation 21:12-14

• "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
• On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
• And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

Clearly both the designation of twelve for the old and twelve for the New Testament messengers, make up the 24 names on the gates and foundations of Holy City. The names of twelve tribes and twelve apostles (collectively 24) encompass all the redeemed of the earth to make up the building of this house.

(Continue to Number Two...)

 

[TribulationSigns]

Number Two:

I believe the number twenty-four refers us back to the number designated as the Priests of Israel, as assigned under inspiration of God by Aaron.

1st Chronicles 24:18-19

• "The three and twentieth to Delaiah, the four and twentieth to Maaziah.
• These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the LORD, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel had commanded him."

Twenty-four was the number of the Priestly orders inspired by God (1st Chronicles) as representative of the whole collective priesthood. I believe that these 24 Priestly courses or orders are a token pointing to the culmination of the whole redemptive and sealed Priesthood of the whole house of Israel. This is also why God says that all believers are now Kings and Priests unto God, signifying their rule as elders, and their Priesthood to minister to God's people.

Revelation 20:5

• "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The first resurrection, or [protos anastasis], was when we were first resurrected from the dead to new life with Christ Jesus. That "undeniably" was our first and only resurrection/regeneration from the dead wherein we shall never die again. Which makes it very literally impossible to be resurrected from the dead a second time. Which means of necessity, we live and reign with Christ right now.

Acts 26:23

• "That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Those words translated "first that should rise from the dead" are [protos anastasis], the exact same words translated First Resurrection in Revelation chapter twenty. This reveals that "this" is the first resurrection, and it was at that time that we were made his kings (rulers) and Priests. When we are saved we are regenerated and that is when we are translated into heavenly places, seated on thrones, and forever reign with Him. But don't take my word for it, because Scripture makes it plain that there is no mistaking the chronology of our first resurrection.

Revelation 1:5-6

• "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Revelation twenty speaks of "this" resurrection, which is the foundation of our regeneration in Him, wherein we were given both rule/judgment (Revelation 20:4) and priesthood. The twenty-four elders reigning/ruling as kings and priests on thrones around God are revelatory characterizations of us.

The twenty-four elders of Revelation are representative characters of both the Old and New Testament and are characterized as elders because they have been given judgment, and they have rule, and they sit as kings upon twenty-four thrones signifying their appointment as Priests of Israel!!! I believe that the very language of them clothed in white robes also points to their having been cleansed by Christ for that very purpose.

Revelation 4:4

• "And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

The word translated "seats" in this passage is the exact same word that is translated "throne" in the same context. So here we have these twenty-four rulers who are living and reigning as kings on thrones before the throne of God, and they are clothed in white raiment. The very same white raiment or [leukos himation] that God uses to symbolize those who have been redeemed from bondage to sin. e.g.:

Revelation 3:18

• "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

This is the white raiment or robe (John 19:2 and 19:5) that is to signifies the righteousness of Christ. It is only because of that garment that they reign as kings and priests before the throne of God. This is the confirmation of the declaration that we are already given our resurrection, stewardship, and reign as kings and Priests unto God. They are dressed in white garments to signify that Christ has washed them clean from their sins in His work on the cross. We saw this illustrated in the very first chapter of this revelatory book.

Revelation 1:5-6

• "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

This verse for all intents and purposes already explained who these are that were seated on thrones, crowned with gold because they are Kings, numbered as twenty-four because they are the Priests of Israel, and dressed in white raiment because they are clothed in the robe of Christ's righteousness (Isaiah 61:10). They represent the redeemed of the earth in Christ. Indeed, the explanation in chapter five tells us as plainly as can be told as it says that the twenty-four elders sing the new song, which is a very particular, exclusive, and distinctive song. Listen carefully to what the twenty-four elders sing:

Revelation 5:9-10

• "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
• And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The Twenty-four elders sing that Christ was slain and had redeemed "them by His blood" from out of every people (Revelation 7:9) and nation, making them unto God "Kings and Priests." This is why they are all dressed in white as a token that they have all been washed clean in Christ's blood. This is the song of the believer's redemption in Zion (Psalms 137:3) and made an integral part of the Holy City New Jerusalem. The only place of true peace and safety for the children of Israel. The song the twenty-four elders sing reveals not only their origin from out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, but their need to be redeemed by God. Those are God's words, meaning that these words are "His" interpretation of these twenty-four elders, from whence they came, and how they are counted righteous. He says that the song they sing no one could learn "except" the hundred forty and four thousand (Revelation 14:3), which were those redeemed from the earth. When we allow God's word to interpret God's word, Revelation chapter seven tells us these were "all" the families or tribes of the House of Israel that were sealed (Revelation 7:4). These are "all" the children of the families of God that are secured/sealed. There is no "other" Israel to be sealed, all that are to be sealed are among this symbolic 144,000. All of us who were regenerated and made part of the house of Israel (Ephesians 2:11-13), had to first be sealed (Ephesians 4:30)) as a member of God's family by the Spirit of Christ before the Lord would loose His judgment on earth. All of us who were redeemed from the earth have eternal security "because" of that sealing.

Let them with ears, let him hear!

 

[grafted branch]

Believe it or not, the great multitude is the remnant out of congregation of Israel since Abel. The great multitude is indeed very many, but the rest of the congregation are many more professed believers without wedding garments (being born again in Christ) who will end up in the Lake of Fire.

Mat 22:14
(14) For many are called, but few are chosen.

The few are the remnant, the great multitude.

Alright, so why can the 144000 be numbered but the multitude is a number no man can count? I know 144 has spiritual meaning as 12 X 12 but that means a spiritually minded person can spiritually count the multitude, yet it says no man can number (spiritually or otherwise). Doesn’t this point to two separate groups of people?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Alright, so why can the 144000 be numbered but the multitude is a number no man can count? I know 144 has spiritual meaning as 12 X 12 but that means a spiritually minded person can spiritually count the multitude, yet it says no man can number (spiritually or otherwise). Doesn’t this point to two separate groups of people?

No.

The 144,000 is NOT a "head count" that we need to apply to 144,000 men. The numbers like 2, 3, 4, 7, 10, 12, 24, 1,000, 1,260, 1,290, 1,335, etc. in the symbolic book of Revelation have spiritual signification that takes spiritual discernment to understand what God is talking about here. Unlike those people with carnal mind who try to figure out with literal numbers and try to apply these to the visible world, whether 2 people, 24 people, 12 balls of fire, seven eyes, ten empires or kings, etc.

Rev 7:4
(4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Those who attempt to read Revelation as a literal narrative must say that this means that only literally 144,000 Jews are converted. But this number is used elsewhere, and is understood symbolic in nature. The root numbers of 144,000 are quite obviously the numbers 10 and 12. The number 10 and it's multiples (100, 1000, etc) are the numbers of fullness. As demonstrated in the 10 virgins, or the 100 sheep with one going astray, or the 1000 years being as one day. They all signify the fullness of whatever is in view. And the number 12 is illustrative of the Congregation of the Lord, as seen in the Old Covenant 12 tribes of Israel, or the New Covenant 12 Apostles. 1000 times 12 is 12,000. That is the fulness of those children of God who are sealed. And of course, 12,000 times each tribe is 144,000. The perfect measured fulness of the house of God from all tribes, as also illustrated in the perfect City of Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:16

• "And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal."

Moreover, there are peculiarities that should readily alert us to the fact that this 144,000 is not the tribes of earthly Israel. First of all, we've seen symbolism all throughout Revelation, and why would God suddenly have this chapter to be curiously understood as a literal narrative, in the midst of all this symbolism? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Secondly, those sealed are said to be made up all the tribes of Israel, and yet all the literal tribes of Israel are not listed. This is because this is Spiritual Israel, an Israel in Christ, not the nation in the middle east. When we examine the census carefully, we find there are significant differences from lists in other places in scripture.

Thirdly, the number 144,000 is 12,000 times the 12 tribes, signifying the measured congregation of the Lord's Chosen. 12 is the number of the Church, both seen in the Old and New Covenant. And each tribe here has "exactly" 12,000 sealed, which is yet another indication of the spiritual signification, as also seen in the City of God.

Revelation 21:12-17

• "And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribesof the children of Israel:
• On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
• And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostlesof the Lamb.
• And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof
• And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs.The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
• And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel."

The City of God is not 12,000 furlongs by coincidence anymore than each tribe has 12,000 sealed by coincidence. The wall is not 144,000 cubits by coincidence anymore than those sealed of Israel are 144,000. These numbers are God ordained to signify the full measure of the Israel of God. This liberal use of the number 12 in Revelation illustrates this. Whether the 12 Apostles, the 12 tribes, the tree of life which bare 12 manner of fruit, the 12 gates, the 12 pearls, the 12 foundations, etc., these are spiritual significations of the fullness, for, and of, the body of believers. Not a literal city Jerusalem in the middle east, but a Spiritual Jerusalem in the Israel which is Christ. Not a worldly Israel, but a heavenly habitation of God. This Israel is also illustrated in revelation chapter 14.

Revelation 14:1-5

• "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
• And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
• And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
• These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
• And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Here God tells us clearly who these 144,000 represent. The body of Christ are those who stand on Mount Zion with this Lamb and all have the Father's name written in their foreheads. All part of a New Covenant with Israel, which is not an earthly nation, but spiritual agreement or promise, which is something far superior. As also seen in Hebrews chapter 12.

Hebrews 12:22-24

• "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
• To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
• And to Jesus the mediator of the New Covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."

This is the heavenly Jerusalem, the City of God which is 12,000 furlongs and the wall of which is 144,000 cubits.

The number 144,000 spiritually REPRESENTING ALL Elect from the Old Testament and the New Testament which is a great multitude that no man can count.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The number 144,000 spiritually REPRESENTING ALL Elect from the Old Testament and the New Testament which is a great multitude that no man can count.

That isn't what John wrote. The 144,000 are the First-fruits (Rev. 14:4). This is an Israelite harvest term for the First bodily resurrection event (Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints) to be followed by the next bodily resurrection at Christ's coming.

The four living creatures and the 24 elders were never called the First-fruits as the 144,000 were. You are mixing up John's separate categories.

 

[grafted branch]

The number 144,000 spiritually REPRESENTING ALL Elect from the Old Testament and the New Testament which is a great multitude that no man can count.

I agree with most of your post, the numbers 10, 12, and 144 are very significant and need to be looked at as not necessarily being a literal number. However there were literally 12 tribes and 12 apostles so it’s not inconceivable that there could be an exact 144,000. I’m not dogmatic about it but it could be a literal number that definitely has spiritual significance.

The problem is you just gave me a very detailed way of how I can spiritually number the great multitude that no man can number. I would think Revelation 7:9 would’ve said a great multitude that only the 144,000 can number, similar to Revelation 14:3 that has a song that no man can learn except the 144,000.

If the 144,000 are the multitude that no man can number then the 144,000 can number the multitude (themselves) else how could a person be assured of their salvation?

 

[TribulationSigns]

The 144,000 are the First-fruits (Rev. 14:4).

All believers in Christ are the firstfruits, duh! They are what 144,000 symbolically represented!

This is an Israelite harvest term for the First bodily resurrection event (Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints) to be followed by the next bodily resurrection at Christ's coming.

Israelite harvest?! What a typical Preterism nonsense. That is your speculation. Not what the Word of God said.

The four living creatures and the 24 elders were never called the First-fruits as the 144,000 were.

They are, I have proved Scripture posted above which you obviously did not read carefully.

You are mixing up John's separate categories.

You are just making this empty accusation because my posts have proved your doctrine wrong. I have quoted God's Word, word to word, exactly who the 24 elders, 144,000, and firstfruits - the very people who have been given the same white garment. Not surprised you are offended by this truth because of your blind obsession with 66-70AD nonsense.

 

[Keraz]

I would add that it is not clear specifically what they do.
We know they shadow and follow Jesus in holiness and purity.
Maybe some one has a verse showing what they do

Isaiah 66:18b I am coming to gather people out of every nation and they shall see My glory. The vast multitude of Revelation 7:9
Isaiah 66:19 I shall put a sign [Gods mark] on them and those I selected shall go out to the nations to proclaim My glory. The coming Kingdom.

Obviously the angel who shouts over the nations in Revelation 14:6-7 is an allegory for the 144,000.
The 2 Witnesses, Rev 11, will be 2 of the 144,000. They specially preach in Jerusalem.

 

[brightfame52]

That isn't what John wrote. The 144,000 are the First-fruits (Rev. 14:4). This is an Israelite harvest term for the First bodily resurrection event (Christ and the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints) to be followed by the next bodily resurrection at Christ's coming.

The four living creatures and the 24 elders were never called the First-fruits as the 144,000 were. You are mixing up John's separate categories.

All the redeemed of the Lord are His First fruits from amongst men. They are His Own Elect. Christ is the Firstfruit, and His Body the Church is One with Him When He rose from the grave as the firstfruit 1 Cor 15:20,23

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Those He died for were in union with Him, when He rose as the firstfruit from the dead, they did with Him Eph 2:5-6

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This has nothing to do with race, ethnicity, but heavenly and Spiritual things

 

[ewq1938]

Both groups were redeemed from the earth and from among men, its the same greek word for redeem, both song a new song.

Rev 14 says the 144k are learning the song not singing. It says the harpers are doing the singing.

So the 144000 and the multitude out of every kindred, and tongue, and people and nation are the same

They are not the same. The 144k are only men from the tribes of Israel where the multitude is both genders from all races of mankind.