The 2 Levels of Holiness

[Episkopos]

I am not a prophet. Only a Christian who knows what Christianity is and what you are trying to teach is not Christianity.

We have arrived at the time where church people no longer receive sound doctrine. What I am teaching is exactly biblical...it is Christianity...just not what passes for Christianity these days....which has strayed away from it's apostolic foundations to cater to the carnal religious man.

The kingdom of God is spiritual in nature. But people no longer (for the most part) follow Jesus to where HE is. They are satisfied with a Jesus idol that promises them life for holding to a set of dogmatic beliefs about Him. In this scheme ANY kind of experiential knowledge of Jesus is seen as bizarre, mystical and "Eastern." (as in not of Western fables) Whereas Jesus expressly says that "I never knew you" is a cause for rejection.

It's the world upside down. And I'm not talking upside down in a good way....but rather where belief systems have overthrown a living faith in a living God. Everything has been reduced to religious dogmatism where nothing is real.

This condition of apostasy from the living faith has been prophesied and IS according to apostolic teaching.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We have arrived at the time where church people no longer receive sound doctrine. What I am teaching is exactly biblical...it is Christianity...just not what passes for Christianity these days....which has strayed away from it's apostolic foundations to cater to the carnal religious man.

The kingdom of God is spiritual in nature. But people no longer (for the most part) follow Jesus to where HE is. They are satisfied with a Jesus idol that promises them life for holding to a set of dogmatic beliefs about Him. In this scheme ANY kind of experiential knowledge of Jesus is seen as bizarre, mystical and "Eastern." (as in not of Western fables) Whereas Jesus expressly says that "I never knew you" is a cause for rejection.

It's the world upside down. And I'm not talking upside down in a good way....but rather where belief systems have overthrown a living faith in a living God. Everything has been reduced to religious dogmatism where nothing is real.

This condition of apostasy from the living faith has been prophesied and IS according to apostolic teaching.

Always love your post and look forward to them but hesitate. Not to accuse but rather to get your intended point because maybe it is me who has misunderstood.

Matthew 11:25-30
[25] At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. [26] Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1) He reveals to “babes”. New borns which are born from above. Yes, do see your point in there is growth. 1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

2) His yoke is easy, His burden light. With God the burden is light in that He does the work. He carries the burden. Not that no change or progression or movement or action takes place ...But God does it. To pick back up the heavy burden or yoke and place it back on man and condemn one as not ‘forcing’ their own spiritual growth...which is ‘Spiritual’ growth in meaning. (IMO) the falling away is returning to man’s own works and tables made of stone? Man’s glory not God’s. What man can do. If you say ‘no the Spirit of God does it’ then why the beating of those who havent achieved a higher holiness as you say? Burden ...or edification?

Torn between the two.

 

[Episkopos]

Always love your post and look forward to them but hesitate. Not to accuse but rather to get your intended point because maybe it is me who has misunderstood.

Matthew 11:25-30
[25] At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. [26] Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1) He reveals to “babes”. New borns which are born from above. Yes, do see your point in there is growth. 1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

2) His yoke is easy, His burden light. With God the burden is light in that He does the work. He carries the burden. Not that no change or progression or movement or action takes place ...But God does it. To pick back up the heavy burden or yoke and place it back on man and condemn one as not ‘forcing’ their own spiritual growth...which is ‘Spiritual’ growth in meaning. (IMO) the falling away is returning to man’s own works and tables made of stone? Man’s glory not God’s. What man can do. If you say ‘no the Spirit of God does it’ then why the beating of those who havent achieved a higher holiness as you say? Burden ...or edification?

Torn between the two.

Edification is to the inner man. The problem with the modern church is that it is focused, not on the inner man...but on the natural man. The inner man remains weak, naked and blind. The teachings of the modern church are meant to be understood by the natural man...at the expense of the inner man.

So often what Jesus said was not understood by His audience. Of course these were not His followers. But today we have have the same problem among they who say they are followers.

The wrong things are being taught.

So then if Jesus' sheep are really hearing HIS voice...then they will depart from what edifies the outer man and go where the truth has an edifying effect on the inner man...where true spiritual growth takes place.

And who is responsible for that? We are! We are to show faith and courage and resist evil. We are NOT to raise up teachers who WE like the sound of. That is the way of the wicked.

But, we are to come away from the trust in man made doctrines...and seek the living God.

When we consider that the modern church works exactly opposite to the teachings of Jesus...it shouldn't take a prophet to see that something drastic needs to be done.

 

[Windmillcharge]

What I am teaching is exactly biblical...it is Christianity

Highly questionable, to base a doctrine on two OT verses and to make no referece to the NT or to any teaching found there.
What makes what you are saying even more questionable is that you are the only one saying it.

Every cult has started because someone has found a way to twist the bible to make it say something it doesn't JW. mormons, scientologist etc all started as you are.

What makes you different from there founders or the guy trying to tell us about the miracle God has given him?

 

[Episkopos]

Highly questionable, to base a doctrine on two OT verses and to make no referece to the NT or to any teaching found there.
What makes what you are saying even more questionable is that you are the only one saying it.

Every cult has started because someone has found a way to twist the bible to make it say something it doesn't JW. mormons, scientologist etc all started as you are.

What makes you different from there founders or the guy trying to tell us about the miracle God has given him?

I am assuming that people who read my posts are familiar with the bible. I can't write a book's worth of verses for every point.

People are so lazy in our time. Amazingly so. Rather than do their own study...they want to have all the work done for them so they can whine and complain when it interferes with their comfortable flesh.

What I post is always supported throughout the entire bible otherwise I don't post it. If there are specific questions....that aren't based on a carnal laziness...then I will answer.

In the NT we see that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was done by the laying on of hands. But not always. There is no quick and fast rule about these things. But the goal is to be filled with the Spirit. If you are not already filled with the Spirit in a miraculous way....then you need to go deeper into holiness. There is no cult in this. It is a simple step by step walk with the Lord that you can practice wherever you are. No need to join a church for that.

Actually the cults these days are the big churches that seduce the masses into spiritual sleep...and laziness. Since people want others to do all the work for them and just listen to things that edify the wrong things in them.....these churches grow very big. Like a cow to the slaughter. Look there for your cults.

 

[amadeus]

We have arrived at the time where church people no longer receive sound doctrine. What I am teaching is exactly biblical...it is Christianity...just not what passes for Christianity these days....which has strayed away from it's apostolic foundations to cater to the carnal religious man.

The kingdom of God is spiritual in nature. But people no longer (for the most part) follow Jesus to where HE is. They are satisfied with a Jesus idol that promises them life for holding to a set of dogmatic beliefs about Him. In this scheme ANY kind of experiential knowledge of Jesus is seen as bizarre, mystical and "Eastern." (as in not of Western fables) Whereas Jesus expressly says that "I never knew you" is a cause for rejection.

It's the world upside down. And I'm not talking upside down in a good way....but rather where belief systems have overthrown a living faith in a living God. Everything has been reduced to religious dogmatism where nothing is real.

This condition of apostasy from the living faith has been prophesied and IS according to apostolic teaching.

Yes and one more time it is to Nehushtan so many rush with outstretched arms!

 

[Windmillcharge]

I am assuming that people who read my posts are familiar with the bible. I can't write a book's worth of verses for every point.

People are so lazy in our time. Amazingly so. Rather than do their own study...they want to have all the work done for them so they can whine and complain when it interferes with their comfortable flesh.

What I post is always supported throughout the entire bible otherwise I don't post it. If there are specific questions....that aren't based on a carnal laziness...then I will answer.

In the NT we see that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was done by the laying on of hands. But not always. There is no quick and fast rule about these things. But the goal is to be filled with the Spirit. If you are not already filled with the Spirit in a miraculous way....then you need to go deeper into holiness. There is no cult in this. It is a simple step by step walk with the Lord that you can practice wherever you are. No need to join a church for that.

Actually the cults these days are the big churches that seduce the masses into spiritual sleep...and laziness. Since people want others to do all the work for them and just listen to things that edify the wrong things in them.....these churches grow very big. Like a cow to the slaughter. Look there for your cults.

You are the one claiming that you have a new doctrine that no one other than you has ever seen before.

It is up to you to prove you actualy have a case.
So far all you are doing is making an unsupported claim.

 

[Episkopos]

You are the one claiming that you have a new doctrine that no one other than you has ever seen before.

It is up to you to prove you actualy have a case.
So far all you are doing is making an unsupported claim.

What I write is not like the teachings that are meant to be mindlessly believed and memorized so common these days. They are to challenge us to go further into Christ...a horror for many I realize. But the doctrines I teach are very old....and found in the bible. It's just that deeper truths are no longer taught in churches in favour of mass marketing and fast food...easy stuff for people to assimilate and learn. Mainly half-truths. The truth takes too much concentration for modern audiences.

 

[Episkopos]

In a time of watered down doctrines speaking the truth becomes a revolutionary act!

At one time, calling people into a deeper holiness was seen as a good thing. No longer....

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Excellent thread! Not sure what I had going on in March that caused me to miss it until now!

 

[Philip James]

This condition of apostasy from the living faith has been prophesied and IS according to apostolic teaching.

Sad, but true...

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[amadeus]

That certainly seems the trend of Episkopos ever since he came on board.

Let's take the title of this thread: The 2 Levels of Holiness.

There is no such concept presented in Scripture (the Word of God). Christians are COMMANDED to be holy as God in holy. And there will (hopefully) be a progression of holiness (sanctification) in every Christian life. But none us is called to sit in judgment over someone else's holiness or lack thereof. We all have enough to concern ourselves with our own Christian walks.

No such concept and yet what does the scripture say here?

"And thou shalt hang up the veil under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the veil the ark of the testimony: and the veil shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy." Ex 26:33

"Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:" Heb 9:6-8

I would say this speaks of at least two levels of holiness, wouldn't you?
The natural children of Israelites went into neither one. The priests through first veil daily and once a year the high priest went behind the second veil... but? Who now is Jesus? Who now are we?

Most all of us here have gone before the high priest, Jesus, but how many have gone past the first veil? How many of those few who have past that first veil, have also gone through the second veil? Do not the veils separate according to levels of holiness?

 

[marks]

No such concept and yet what does the scripture say here?

"And thou shalt hang up the veil under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the veil the ark of the testimony: and the veil shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy." Ex 26:33

"Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:" Heb 9:6-8

I would say this speaks of at least two levels of holiness, wouldn't you?
The natural children of Israelites went into neither one. The priests through first veil daily and once a year the high priest went behind the second veil... but? Who now is Jesus? Who now are we?

Most all of us here have gone before the high priest, Jesus, but how many have gone past the first veil? How many of those few who have past that first veil, have also gone through the second veil? Do not the veils separate according to levels of holiness?

Hi amadeus, That was to show the holiness of God in the separation of the people from God, needing the priesthood as the intermediary, and even the priests needed the high priest. But now there is no more separation, the veil is removed, and Jesus is our intermediary. No more levels of separation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

In a time of watered down doctrines speaking the truth becomes a revolutionary act!

At one time, calling people into a deeper holiness was seen as a good thing. No longer....

Personally, my only objection is when someone makes it elitist, that some are better or above others, or when someone says that you don't have what you need now to live holy. I see that in those who preach a "latter rain", "second pentacost", "baptism of the Holy Spirit" (other than rebirth), that there is something that has to happen from outside of us, After we have been reborn, that will enable us to live holy, and that we will not be able to without it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I would say this speaks of at least two levels of holiness, wouldn't you?
The natural children of Israelites went into neither one. The priests through first veil daily and once a year the high priest went behind the second veil... but? Who now is Jesus? Who now are we?

We go straight into the holiest place, no waiting, no separation, Jesus lives in me, and is the Most Holy.

All that remains is to accept this truth in faith, believing it is true, in the same way that we board a bus believing it's going to take us to the beach.

We have been already recreated in God's likeness, righteousm and truly holy.

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

But now there is no more separation, the veil is removed

Hello marks,
The veil in the Temple was removed, there yet remains a veil..

Heb 10:20

by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh,

Peace be with you!

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus, That was to show the holiness of God in the separation of the people from God, needing the priesthood as the intermediary, and even the priests needed the high priest. But now there is no more separation, the veil is removed, and Jesus is our intermediary. No more levels of separation.

Much love!

The veil is rent down the middle, but can anyone simply walk right in? Is it a 'come as you are' party?

And also there is only one heaven, right? But in the following verse Jesus spoke of more than one, did He not? [one of favorites of our friend @bbyrd009 ]

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

Then again is there no difference between those in the Bride of Christ and the invited guests at the wedding?

Who was saved in the ark that Noah built? Why were there three levels of salvation there? Are you so certain that there is no message from God to us in that separation?

It is all very simple, but also very complicated, isn't it?

Do we need the answers to all of these questions? Do only theologians make it in to 2nd heaven or even to 3rd heaven?

 

[Philip James]

Then again is there no difference between those in the Bride of Christ and the invited guests at the wedding?

Hello amadeus,

I see the difffence rather in those invited, and those who came.

But what of the one without his wedding garment?

Peace be with you!

 

[amadeus]

We go straight into the holiest place, no waiting, no separation, Jesus lives in me, and is the Most Holy.

All that remains is to accept this truth in faith, believing it is true, in the same way that we board a bus believing it's going to take us to the beach.

We have been already recreated in God's likeness, righteousm and truly holy.

Much love!

Does not Paul here speak of the now?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

And John writes here of the then, but how does one get from seeing through a glass darkly now to 'face to face' then?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[amadeus]

Hello amadeus,

I see the difffence rather in those invited, and those who came.

But what of the one without his wedding garment?

Peace be with you!

Perhaps he was a scientist who thought he could get in based on knowledge instead of through Jesus! Do we not have to put on Christ? What does that mean?