The 2 Levels of Holiness

[marks]

The bible is about people who have experienced God. Not people who have a set of beliefs about God.

Stephen looked up and saw God in heaven...so he said "I see"

But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."

Stephen testified to something he was seeing. Was it imagination? No.

So I ask...what have you seen or presently see? What is by faith and what is mere human beliefs?

I would say that the Bible is God's Communication to mankind.

The Bible is about all sorts of people, from Abraham and Moses who were face to face friends with God, to Isaiah who was in the throne room of God, to King Saul, and King Ahaz, and the Lords of the Philistines.

Do we co-opt a particular characterization of the Bible to support our assertions?

There are many people with faith, many with personal experience, and many without that experience, but with faith, and many with no faith, even having had personal experience. How is it that we can select one of these to say, Aha, this is it!

What is faith except what you believe to be true about God? You believe He is with you? Your faith is that He is with you, and He is. You believe He gives you life? This belief is your faith.

What do I see? I see my Heavenly Father always in front of me, always instructing me, always sheltering me. And I love Him.

Faith = Belief. Same thing.

Much love!
Mark

 

[friend of]

I mean, we are called to take up our cross and die daily to self. Dying daily to the fleshly carnal nature is, in a sense, to beat and maim it by deprivation. Christ was obedient unto death and never gave in to the flesh, but subdued it utterly. When our whole being acknowledges that we have died with Christ then we are empowered to live life through Him. Our sinful nature was imputed to Christ who became sin for us, He died, killing this nature. He resurrected to life and that old nature is dead and now there only exists the illusion that remains. A shadow of the psyche that is still liable to succumb to the flesh if we get lazy, but since we have been given all legal and spiritual right and power over the sin nature, we should gain greater victory day by day. Realizing our identity in Christ in our walk with Him empowers and sanctifies and restores us to follow Him althemore. Christ's perfect Spirit dwells within me and I must yield and let the Spirit have His perfect way.

 

[Episkopos]

I mean, we are called to take up our cross and die daily to self. Dying daily to the fleshly carnal nature is, in a sense, to beat and maim it by deprivation. Christ was obedient unto death and never gave in to the flesh, but subdued it utterly. When our whole being acknowledges that we have died with Christ then we are empowered to live life through Him. Our sinful nature was imputed to Christ who became sin for us, He died, killing this nature. He resurrected to life and that old nature is dead and now there only exists the illusion that remains. A shadow of the psyche that is still liable to succumb to the flesh if we get lazy, but since we have been given all legal and spiritual right and power over the sin nature, we should gain greater victory day by day. Realizing our identity in Christ in our walk with Him empowers and sanctifies and restores us to follow Him althemore. Christ's perfect Spirit dwells within me and I must yield and let the Spirit have His perfect way.

You have a flawed explanation but your conclusion is sound nevertheless.

 

[marks]

Dying daily to the fleshly carnal nature is, in a sense, to beat and maim it by deprivation.

I think this is it exactly!

Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

We simply replace the opportunities to sin with our walking in the Spirit. As long as we are walking in the Spirit, we simply leave no place for sin to occur, making no provisions for the flesh
.

Realizing our identity in Christ in our walk with Him empowers and sanctifies and restores us to follow Him althemore.

Amen!!

Much love!
Mark

 

[Windmillcharge]

Since this isn't taught in sunday school this will not be understood or accepted so easily

Why the insult, about not learning anything after sunday school?

Christians won't get it so easily unless they have in fact walked in heavenly places with Christ.

Ever noticed how Jesus dealt with those who wanted to understand but didn't understand?

want to compare 2 verses in the OT that say the same thing.

Two verses from the OT, that say nothing about Jesus, but are your introduction to a 'higher spirituality'

I think you shouldlearn the lesson that Paul teaches inRomans and Corinthians that the 'noble', the 'Spiritual', the 'honourable' serve and treat the ignobe, the unspiritual, the dis honerable with special reverence and honour.

One challenge. What organisation/church/group teaches what you are going on about, or is this all yours?

 

[Episkopos]

Why the insult, about not learning anything after sunday school?

I am challenging people to come out of their religious traditions.

Ever noticed how Jesus dealt with those who wanted to understand but didn't understand?

They who have ears let them hear...

Two verses from the OT, that say nothing about Jesus, but are your introduction to a 'higher spirituality'

No mention of Jesus...as in a sunday school class....yet very much about Him. (as in...Jesus....who you'll remember from last sunday's class...)

I think you shouldlearn the lesson that Paul teaches inRomans and Corinthians that the 'noble', the 'Spiritual', the 'honourable' serve and treat the ignobe, the unspiritual, the dis honerable with special reverence and honour.

Becoming all things to all men so as to win some.

One challenge. What organisation/church/group teaches what you are going on about, or is this all yours?

sunday school.

 

[Windmillcharge]

I am challenging people to come out of their religious traditions.

They who have ears let them hear...


No mention of Jesus...as in a sunday school class....yet very much about Him. (as in...Jesus....who you'll remember from last sunday's class...)


Becoming all things to all men so as to win some.


sunday school.

In other words this is your invention.

You are the self apointed prophet who is going to lead those who'll listen to some 'higher' spirituality.

 

[Episkopos]

In other words this is your invention.

You are the self apointed prophet who is going to lead those who'll listen to some 'higher' spirituality.

I'm just posting what I know....not trying to compete with your own high self-esteem of what you think is true or not. I'm not here to threaten you. You are still the prophet.

 

[marks]

I'm just posting what I know....not trying to compete with your own high self-esteem of what you think is true or not. I'm not here to threaten you. You are still the prophet.

If windmillcharge is the prophet, why do you not listen?



Seriously . . . is there anyone else who teaches what you do?


Answering "Sunday School" just dodges the question. I suppose a number of people just go along with that. That's how so many people can do that instead of giving an answer.

Does anyone else teach this way?

That you've seen things, know things, from "walking in the heavenlies with Jesus", what we could all do, if we knew . . . what you know . . .

And what do you even mean, "walking in the heavenlies with Jesus"? That was your way of putting it, right? Please forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly. But what does that actually mean to you? A sense of place? A visionary experience? Seeing through the veil? Finding your primary location to the meeting of your senses in that celestial realm behind the veil?

What does this mean to you?

And I don't mean to say that if only one person knows something they must be wrong. That would be a logical fallacy. And Lord knows we have enough of those around here!

Much love!
Mark

 

[Jay Ross]

Ephesians 1

. . . and is that all you have to say about my post?

Much love!

It seems to me that people see you as a clockwork spring to be wound up on the clockwork toy train, then put the train on the circular track and release it so that you go round and round in ever decreasing circles of frustration.

 

[marks]

I seems to me that people see you as a clockwork spring to be wound up on the clockwork toy train, then put the train on the circular track and release it so that you go round and round in ever decreasing circles of frustration.

How many do you speak for?

Could it be that I have a reason?

And why make this personal? And not only that but diminuitive? I'm a "toy train running in circles" to you. Hm.

There seems to be so much of that around!

 

[Jay Ross]

How many do you speak for?

Could it be that I have a reason?

And why make this personal? And not only that but diminuitive? I'm a "toy train running in circles" to you. Hm.

There seems to be so much of that around!

Mark, lighten up, I am only speaking for what I perceive others are doing to you, it is so easy to be wound up and I know it is easy to fall into other peoples' trap of being wound up by them.

Now I have not made this personal or this a small issue, but eventually when we are wound up we run out of "steam" or "spring tension" to keep going. People wear out other people to win the discussion.

Yes, on this site as well as others, then are people on the forum who wind up people like a clockwork train to see them going around in circles like a cat chasing its own tail.

Now was your response your attempt to wind me up like others are doing to you?

Oh I did respond didn't I.

 

[marks]

I suppose our perception differ.

I try to pull things out into the light where they can be seen. People use all sorts of fallacies to try to win arguments. I like to take the veiled and make it plain.

My undying hope is that some may see the unreasonableness of their position and perhaps change.

If you think of this as a "toy train running in ever smaller circles of frustration", OK, you may see that, however, it's not what is happening with me. You know me. I'm a patient guy!

Much love!
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

If windmillcharge is the prophet, why do you not listen?



Seriously . . . is there anyone else who teaches what you do?


Answering "Sunday School" just dodges the question. I suppose a number of people just go along with that. That's how so many people can do that instead of giving an answer.

Does anyone else teach this way?

That you've seen things, know things, from "walking in the heavenlies with Jesus", what we could all do, if we knew . . . what you know . . .

And what do you even mean, "walking in the heavenlies with Jesus"? That was your way of putting it, right? Please forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly. But what does that actually mean to you? A sense of place? A visionary experience? Seeing through the veil? Finding your primary location to the meeting of your senses in that celestial realm behind the veil?

What does this mean to you?

And I don't mean to say that if only one person knows something they must be wrong. That would be a logical fallacy. And Lord knows we have enough of those around here!

Much love!
Mark

We have enough of what exactly? Logical fallacies?

It isn't of faith to calculate where something comes from... either you recognize the truth or you don't. Move on.

 

[marks]

We have enough of what exactly? Logical fallacies?

It isn't of faith to calculate where something comes from... either you recognize the truth or you don't. Move on.

You are green. Either you recognize it or not. Move on. Accept it. You are green. It may not be easy, but it will be easier once you accept it.

This is what you are saying. We shouldn't examine your teaching, just accept it.

Yes. Logical Fallacies. We have plenty of those around.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

So . . . what do you mean, when you say, "walking in the heavenlies with Christ"?

@Episkopos

 

[Windmillcharge]

I'm just posting what I know....not trying to compete with your own high self-esteem of what you think is true or not. I'm not here to threaten you. You are still the prophet.

I am not a prophet. Only a Christian who knows what Christianity is and what you are trying to teach is not Christianity.

 

[Enoch111]

You are the self apointed prophet who is going to lead those who'll listen to some 'higher' spirituality.

That certainly seems the trend of Episkopos ever since he came on board.

Let's take the title of this thread: The 2 Levels of Holiness.

There is no such concept presented in Scripture (the Word of God). Christians are COMMANDED to be holy as God in holy. And there will (hopefully) be a progression of holiness (sanctification) in every Christian life. But none us is called to sit in judgment over someone else's holiness or lack thereof. We all have enough to concern ourselves with our own Christian walks.

 

[ScottA]

1 Corinthians 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

 

[ScottA]

Let's take the title of this thread: The 2 Levels of Holiness.

There is no such concept presented in Scripture (the Word of God).

Oh yes there is:

Genesis 1:7
Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.