The Absolute Equality of Jesus With The Father

[Ronald Nolette]

The subordination of Jesus to the Father is only from His Incarnation to His Ascension

Wrong:

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
King James Version

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


that does not lessen or demeans Jesus. It just is what it is.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Wrong:

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
King James Version

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


that does not lessen or demeans Jesus. It just is what it is.

The passage you refer to is only till the end of the world Revelation 11.15 and 22.1 show that the Father Reigns Jointly will with Jesus

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The words "he shall reign" is singular in the Greek. Showing the one Reign of both Father and Jesus. Same in 22.1 where the word "throne" is singular

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The passage you refer to is only till the end of the world Revelation 11.15 and 22.1 show that the Father Reigns Jointly will with Jesus

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The words "he shall reign" is singular in the Greek. Showing the one Reign of both Father and Jesus. Same in 22.1 where the word "throne" is singular

this is where you err.

The reign is of the millenial reign of Jesus where He reigns supreme until the 1,000 year kingdom is over. After the 1,000 year reign is over:

Rev. 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After the millenial kingdom but before eternity, the great white throne is established and death is destroyed in the lake of fire. Once death is destroyed then this happens according to Gods Word:

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
King James Version

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Once Jesus has subdued all things and destroys death- Jesus submits HImself to the Father and sits at His right side as second most High King under His Father.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

this is where you err.

The reign is of the millenial reign of Jesus where He reigns supreme until the 1,000 year kingdom is over. After the 1,000 year reign is over:

Rev. 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After the millenial kingdom but before eternity, the great white throne is established and death is destroyed in the lake of fire. Once death is destroyed then this happens according to Gods Word:

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
King James Version

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Once Jesus has subdued all things and destroys death- Jesus submits HImself to the Father and sits at His right side as second most High King under His Father.

Rev 11.15 and 22.1 are about the eternal Reign

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

this is where you err.

The reign is of the millenial reign of Jesus where He reigns supreme until the 1,000 year kingdom is over. After the 1,000 year reign is over:

Rev. 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After the millenial kingdom but before eternity, the great white throne is established and death is destroyed in the lake of fire. Once death is destroyed then this happens according to Gods Word:

1 Corinthians 15:25-28
King James Version

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Once Jesus has subdued all things and destroys death- Jesus submits HImself to the Father and sits at His right side as second most High King under His Father.

Even when on earth, as "subordinate" to the Father, as the Suffering Servant, Jesus says to the Jews at that time

"that all may honour the Son according as they honour the Father; he who is not honouring the Son, doth not honour the Father who sent him"

He Commands that He is "Honoured" "according as" the Father is Honoured. No Person Who is not EQUAL to the Father, could ever say this!

Look again at what Rev 11:15 says:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, AND of His Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever"

"βασιλεύσει", is in the singular number, "He shall Reign" with the meaning of, either, the Reign of Jesus Christ; or, "our Lord", and "His Christ" as a Joint Reign. Note also what it says, "REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER". Which is the ETERNAL Reign of Jesus.

Likewise, Revelation 22:1, is well after the Final Judgement and 1000 Year Reign, and of Eternity.

You fail to grasp the Holy Trinity.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

John 1:18 is the summary statement for the Gospel of John.


No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.

Except that the best textual evidence has a different reading. The 2 oldest Greek manuscripts, know as Papyri 66 and 75, read "Θεὸς", instead of "υἱὸς" (Son). Also the reading of the early second century Diatessaron.

"Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς Θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο"

"God no one has seen at any time. The Unique God Who is in the Bosom of the Father, He has made Him known"

Notice, that the One God, is in the "bosom" of the other God. This first God is called here "τοῦ Πατρὸς", The Father, Who is distinct from the "μονογενὴς Θεὸς". There is no way that anyone can honsestly say, that both uses of "God" refer to the same Person!

Facts are Facts!

 

[Curtis]

You are lost mate, adding one error upon another.....you don't do much scripture study, and for understanding I gather?

Have good Day

APAK

I do, obviously you don’t.

 

[kcnalp]

Wow are you in denial. Below are examples of me quoting:

1. Deutoronomy 18:15-18
2. 1 Corinthians 8:6
3. Mark 12:29, 32
4. John 17:3

Can't answer my questions about Scripture huh?

John 1:1 (KJV)1 the Word was God.
(GenevaBible)1 that Word was God.
(ASV)1 the Word was God.
(AMP)1 the Word was God Himself.
(MontgomeryNT)1 the Word was God.
(CEB)1 the Word was God.
(CJB)1 the Word was God.
(Darby)1 the Word was God.
(ESV)1 the Word was God.
(HCSB)1 the Word was God.
(MaceNT)1 the Logos was God.
(NASB)1 the Word was God.
(NIV)1 the Word was God.
(NJB)1 the Word was God.
(NKJV)1 the Word was God.
(NRSV)1 the Word was God.
(RSV)1 the Word was God.
(TLB)1 is himself God.
(WesleyNT)1 the Word was God.
(WEY)1 the Word was God.
(YLT)1 the Word was God;
(Webster's Bible)1 the Word was God.
(MSG)1 The Word was God,

 

[Wrangler]

John 1:1 (KJV)

Cant even make a post with an original thought. Now what is your answer to my Scripture based question?

What was Jesus saying in Mark 12:29, 32 and John 17:3?

 

[kcnalp]

Cant even make a post with an original thought. Now what is your answer to my Scripture based question?

Original: Rejecting the Bible! You're right! I can't reject the Bible! I leave that for Kingdom Hall.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Rev 11.15 and 22.1 are about the eternal Reign

Correct, but Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, which means He is second highest ruler under His Father as 1 cor. 15 says. Jesus has no problem with that, neither should you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Even when on earth, as "subordinate" to the Father, as the Suffering Servant, Jesus says to the Jews at that time

"that all may honour the Son according as they honour the Father; he who is not honouring the Son, doth not honour the Father who sent him"

He Commands that He is "Honoured" "according as" the Father is Honoured. No Person Who is not EQUAL to the Father, could ever say this!

Look again at what Rev 11:15 says:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, AND of His Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever"

"βασιλεύσει", is in the singular number, "He shall Reign" with the meaning of, either, the Reign of Jesus Christ; or, "our Lord", and "His Christ" as a Joint Reign. Note also what it says, "REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER". Which is the ETERNAL Reign of Jesus.

Likewise, Revelation 22:1, is well after the Final Judgement and 1000 Year Reign, and of Eternity.

You fail to grasp the Holy Trinity.

What you think I fail to grasp is irrelavent.

I know that the Son is equal to the Father in His divinity, but He holds an inferior position! He reigns as 2nd highest ruler in eternity with His Father.

REv. 11:15:
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

this is the reign of Father and Son. but for eternity- which "starts" after the thousand year millenial reign of Jesus- 1 Cor. 15:

Look at what god says here in 1 Cor. 15:

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1. The end comes. If not of time then what? back it with SCriptures.
2. Jesus delivers the kingdom to HIs Father
3. He reigns UNTIL all enemies are subdued.
4. Last enemy -death destroyed at the great whit throne judgment of Rev. 20:11-15
5. Everything except the Father was put under Jesus feet (authority)
6. When everything is subdued- Jesus subjects HImself to the Father once again!

Why do you have a problem with this and also with the fact that Jesus sits on a throne as 2nd highest ruler of the universe in eternity?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Correct, but Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, which means He is second highest ruler under His Father as 1 cor. 15 says. Jesus has no problem with that, neither should you.

have you ever read Psalm 110?

In verse 1 it reads, "A Psalm of David. The LORD (Yehôvâh) saith unto my Lord ('Adôn), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". Here the Lord Jesus Christ is at the Right Hand of the Father.

However, in verse 5 it reads, "The LORD (Yehôvâh) at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

Here we have "'Adôn" from verse 1, as "Yehôvâh", according to the best Hebrew textual evidence.Jesus Christ and the Father are both "Yehôvâh"

See their EQUAL Authority, because both the Father and Jesus Christ are 100% COEQUAL, regardless of your misunderstanding of the passage from 1 Corinthians 15 .

 

[Wrangler]

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Great post! I call this Christianity’s end game.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Great post! I call this Christianity’s end game.

The TriUne God of the Holy Bible IS from Everlasting to Everlasting, without end!

 

[Wrangler]

The TriUne God of the Holy Bible IS from Everlasting to Everlasting, without end!

The trinity is not in the Bible. This is because the entire Bible is written by monotheist Jews who reject the trinity to this day. Trinitarianism imposes its dogma onto unitarian text.

 

[Riverwalker]

The trinity is not in the Bible.

While the word Trinity is not in the bible, the concept is all through it, From Genesis to revelation
To the equality of Christ

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Wrangler]

Correct, but Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, which means He is second highest ruler under His Father as 1 cor. 15 says. Jesus has no problem with that, neither should you.

Great point! Obviously, trinitarians do have a problem with this.

 

[Wrangler]

While the word Trinity is not in the bible, the concept is all through it

No. The concept of the trinity is contrary to the message of the entire Bible. Let's examine the beginning of Philippians since you quoted it.

2 Grace to you and shalom from God our Father and the Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
Philippians 1:2 (CJB)

Notice the absence of the trinity? Trinitarians passion is actually for the man-is-God thesis. Every epistle opens this way, acknowledging two beings, God and his son. This is because the trinity is not in the Bible. The equality of Jesus with God is explicitly reject in what I call Christianity's end game in 1 Corinthians 15 and 11:3 and throughout the Bible. Do you admit that God chose and sent Jesus and told him what to say - and not the other way around?

 

[Riverwalker]

Notice the absence of the trinity? Trinitarians passion is actually for the man-is-God thesis. Every epistle opens this way, acknowledging two beings, God and his son. This is because the trinity is not in the Bible. The equality of Jesus with God is explicitly reject in what I call Christianity's end game in 1 Corinthians 15 and 11:3 and throughout the Bible. Do you admit that God chose and sent Jesus and told him what to say - and not the other way around?

So then it is your statement that the Holy Spirit.....is not God? Jesus referred to him as an individual

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Good luck with that