The Age of God’s Grace

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RichardBurger

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The Age of God’s Grace:

Imagine that you are standing on a plain and 20 miles ahead is a mountain.

Now imagine that as you look over that mountain you see the top of another mountain behind it.

You can see the plain, the top of the first mountain and the top of the second mountain.

But you can’t see what is between the first mountain and the second.

In the view of dispensational studies, the area between the mountains is Paul’s gospel. It was not seen in the O.T. Nor was it seen in the first 4 books of the N.T.

Paul said his gospel was hidden in God and revealed to him by Jesus Christ.

Eph 3:8-12
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,
11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
NKJV

It can be seen that in Acts 3:21 Peter is proclaiming things made known by the prophets since the world began. --- In contrast, in the book of Romans, 16:25, Paul is proclaiming things kept secret since the world began.

Something made known cannot be a secret and something kept secret has not been made known. Notice that Peter proclaimed the crucifixion of Jesus as something for the Jews to repent of (Acts 2) where Paul proclaimed that he gloried in the cross of Christ (Gal 6:11-15).

To those that study the scriptures from a dispensational view, Peter and Paul proclaimed two different messages.
 

Jake

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It was ALWAYS about God's grace!

He has not change nor will He ever change, it is impossible for Him to create us w/out grace and now all of a sudden midway through the NT, He somehow received grace in and of Himself.

Your lack of understanding of the scripture is apparent with your belief in 2 gospels and the lack of God's grace with the Israelities.

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL.
 

RichardBurger

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It was ALWAYS about God's grace!

He has not change nor will He ever change, it is impossible for Him to create us w/out grace and now all of a sudden midway through the NT, He somehow received grace in and of Himself.

Your lack of understanding of the scripture is apparent with your belief in 2 gospels and the lack of God's grace with the Israelities.

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOSPEL.

I have no lack of understanding. My understanding is not your understanding. You can believe what you wish just as I do.
 

Prentis

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God has not changed how he works. Does God change? Of course not.

What has changed is that now we have received the power to overcome by new life in Jesus Christ. Anything that denies that we receive power through Christ, which is what grace is, does not understand the purpose of his coming and the will of God, that we be conformed to him.
 

RichardBurger

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God has not changed how he works. Does God change? Of course not.

What has changed is that now we have received the power to overcome by new life in Jesus Christ. Anything that denies that we receive power through Christ, which is what grace is, does not understand the purpose of his coming and the will of God, that we be conformed to him.

LOL!!!!, first you say God can not change and then you say He changed something.
 

lawrance

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A age where Grace is undermined ? is it that we are in.
Jesus came and Grace abound from him from that point on.
 

Prentis

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God has not changed in character.

But what has changed is that he has made greater means available, that is, his life in us.

So again, God did not change, but we have new life in the Lord by which we can overcome.
 

prism

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So you are saying that God changes the playing field and agree with Richard? :)
 

Prentis

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No, God levels it, meaning that the Jews are no longer at an advantage, and neither are the Gentiles. But the same grace is available to all, that is, the power of God unto salvation by which we are to walk. :)
 

prism

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Jan 24, 2011
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Yes God has leveled the playing field as revealed in Romans (Paul again), but will there not come a future time when God again focuses on rescuing His people the Jews?

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(Rom 11:25-26)
 

Prentis

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Yes God has leveled the playing field as revealed in Romans (Paul again), but will there not come a future time when God again focuses on rescuing His people the Jews?

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(Rom 11:25-26)

Yes, but unto the same salvation and same gospel, as it was with Peter and Paul. :)

My understanding is that when we Gentiles start to truly walk like Christ, through us the Lord will shine his holiness and make the Jews see what should of been theirs, so to speak!
 

Vengle

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I am bothered by that expression, "The age of God's grace."

He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He said, Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

The very reason there is a remnant of the sons of Jacob being saved is his grace.

And I have given examples in other posts to show that has always been his way.

Do you really believe that anyone was justified of those before Christ apart from God's grace?

How can you?

You are confusing the ministry of grace with God's grace. His grace has been from the moment Adam sinned. The ministry had to wait for Christ before it was delivered to the world through intensive effort of education.

That is all.

But Job, who was an Asian man, was saved of grace long before that Old Law Covenant. And who of you knows how many more?

God does not neglect the meek of this earth in any age.

And neglect is what the story you are telling would make it to be.

Knowing God is half our education. For then we know what he will and will not due, for he is consistent. He does not change.

So then you probably think about Corinthians where it asks who can know the mind of God but we do have the mind of Christ.

Don't stumble. All that is saying is we know God through Christ, but we do know him, praise be to Christ.

I say that because some balk at one claiming to know God. But Abraham did and we are his seed in Christ.
 

prism

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Yes, but unto the same salvation and same gospel, as it was with Peter and Paul. :)

My understanding is that when we Gentiles start to truly walk like Christ, through us the Lord will shine his holiness and make the Jews see what should of been theirs, so to speak!

Same salvation and same gospel? Will the Promises be the same? Will the present Church inherit the Land when the Lord returns? Will we be sitting on the twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel/or be judged by the twelve? (mt 19:28) etc.

Did not Jesus and the Apostles walk like 'Christ' but to no avail with the Jews? Where in Scripture do you see that idea? Or is their hardening due to..." that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in Rom. 11:25b."?
 

Prentis

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Same salvation and same gospel? Will the Promises be the same? Will the present Church inherit the Land when the Lord returns? Will we be sitting on the twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel/or be judged by the twelve? (mt 19:28) etc.

Did not Jesus and the Apostles walk like 'Christ' but to no avail with the Jews? Where in Scripture do you see that idea? Or is their hardening due to..." that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in Rom. 11:25b."?

Yes. Paul himself says the promises are not to seeds, but to one seed, that is Christ. And then the promises and inheritance is to all those in Christ. Thus, those in Christ Jesus are Israel, the saints of God, those who rule and reign with him, and will be in the New Jerusalem on the New Earth. :)

Yes, Jesus' apostles walked like him, and a remnant believed, while the rest of Israel was hardened. Then the Gospel was preached among the gentiles, some believed, and out of them will come a remnant. The Jews will be provoked to jealousy when the time comes.
 

prism

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So the 144,000 in Revelation (12000 in each tribe) is nothing but a figurative expression? One more question. Why were all the prophecies in the OT fulfilled literally and now all of a sudden most unfulfilled prophecies will have a non-literal fulfillment? To me it's a sign of Liberal rationalistic thinking permeating the Church.
 

Prentis

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So the 144,000 in Revelation (12000 in each tribe) is nothing but a figurative expression? One more question. Why were all the prophecies in the OT fulfilled literally and now all of a sudden most unfulfilled prophecies will have a non-literal fulfillment? To me it's a sign of Liberal rationalistic thinking permeating the Church.

It is not a figurative expression, but a spiritual reality. We are grafted into Israel, the people of God.

Did the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 literally become one, literal sticks? Is our heart literally of stone, and literally no more?

The things of the Spirit cannot be understood by the natural man, as Paul says. It only makes it normal that they speak not of mere natural things, but of a spiritual reality, that is, the kingdom.
 

Vengle

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Notice that the 144,000 are not said to be redeemed from Israel here, but from the entire earth:

Revelation 14:3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."
 

Insight

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Gods revelation of His plan and purpose (Num 14:21) with the earth and its subjects is an unfolding one.

Prentis is correct in saying that God is unchanging, in fact the God of Gen 1:1 is the exact same God as Rev 22:21KJV

His knoweldge is past finding out (Rom 11:33) but that does not mean we ought not try
searching-019.gif
Prov 2:3,4,5

Insight
 

Prentis

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Notice that the 144,000 are not said to be redeemed from Israel here, but from the entire earth:

Revelation 14:3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Good catch! ;)

Gods revelation of His plan and purpose (Num 14:21) with the earth and its subjects is an unfolding one.

Prentis is correct in saying that God is unchanging, in fact the God of Gen 1:1 is the exact same God as Rev 22:21KJV

His knoweldge is past finding out (Rom 11:33) but that does not mean we ought not try
searching-019.gif
Prov 2:3,4,5

Insight

Yes, on the one hand it says his ways are unsearchable, on the other, Paul says his mysteries have been revealed to us.

To him who seeks, it will indeed be revealed. :)